Chevy/Ford Templates

Chevy/Ford Templates

Post by rrpow.. » Tue, 02 May 1995 04:00:00


Hey:
        Since there's been very little discussion on this subject,
thought I'd bring it up again...  :)
        In the most recent issue of Winston Cup Scene, it is stated by
Kevin Triplett (NASCAR's WC media coordinator), that "It's been printed
the Chevrolet fits only 12 of our templates.  The Chevrolet fits all 14
of our templates.  It fits 12 production templates because around the
rear deck, there was some modification."  Now I realize he is trying to
step lightly around this subject until an official ruling/change is in
place.  
        My questions are these:  How many production templates are there
for the Monte Carlo?  How many production templates are there for the
Thunderbird and how many does it fit?  I know that the T-Bird matches
all 14 of the WC templates.  I'm pretty sure there are 14 production
templates for the T-Bird and it matches all of those.  Right?  If this
is the case, then NASCAR should rule that the MC has to match all 14
production templates.  If FORD is stuck with an old body style they
designed, then Chevy should have to run the body style they designed.
Not what the WC teams designed so the car would run right.
        I do not want to see NASCAR give FORD a concession or break on
their body design.  That's trying to make 2 wrongs into a right.  Just
right the original wrong and everyone's back to what they originally
designed.
        Of course, if FORD doesn't match all 14 of its production
templates, then that whole last paragraph and a 1/2 was meaningless.  If
that's the case then I quote Shakespeare "To be, or not to be."
(Southern translation, "I don't know whether to sh*# or go blind!")


GO...94...6...28...2...FORD...FORD...FORD...FORD...FORD...FORD...FORD...
  Special this week....GO...21...21...21...21...21...21...21...21...

 
 
 

Chevy/Ford Templates

Post by P. Campbe » Wed, 03 May 1995 04:00:00

Quote:

>    My questions are these:  How many production templates are there
>for the Monte Carlo?  How many production templates are there for the
>Thunderbird and how many does it fit?  I know that the T-Bird matches
>all 14 of the WC templates.  I'm pretty sure there are 14 production
>templates for the T-Bird and it matches all of those.  Right?  If this

Of course, ALL the cars have to match NASCAR's 14 templates, or else they
don't race.  Ford's big gripe is that if you put the 14 templates on the
production vehicle, it fits all 14 (which surprises me, because I thought
the race car had a 1" higher decklid).

The production Monte Carlo fits 12 of those templates, the ones it doesn't
fit are in the area of the rear deck.  The rear deck on the race car was
allowed to be 6" wider than the production vehicle for "safety reasons".
I've heard it two ways:  that Chevy lobbied for it, and that NASCAR
mandated it because it didn't fit the "standard" rear spoiler.
Considering that the car was originally tested in the production
configuration, by bet is that Chevy lobbied for it.

In any event, when NASCAR made the decision during the winter to allow
this change, Ford IMMEDIATELY objected.  This was before any racing was
done.  And they continue to object.

Quote:
>is the case, then NASCAR should rule that the MC has to match all 14
>production templates.  If FORD is stuck with an old body style they
>designed, then Chevy should have to run the body style they designed.
>Not what the WC teams designed so the car would run right.

Absolutely.  That's what I've been saying all along.  NASCAR keeps digging
themselves a bigger and bigger hole by allowing all the body mods.  I
think they should've given the Monte Carlo a higher rear spoiler, not a
wider rear deck.  I will reiterate my claim that, as long as NASCAR
continues to make these changes, the bickering will never cease, and the
manufacturers will sit on their duffs and not change a thing.

Last year, NASCAR basically told Chevy to build a better race car.  They
did, and NASCAR did the right thing there.  But NASCAR screwed up when
they allowed the body mod.  Now Ford and Pontiac want the same, and NASCAR
really can't say anything.

Personally, I don't think NASCAR should do anything this year.  But they
ought to alert all the manufacturers that, beginning next year, all bodies
must be in production configuration (the top half at least; the bottom
half is fabricated, but can be made close).  I kinda thought this was the
way Gary Nelson was going when he made all the changes prior to the '93
season (wider noses on all cars, a 1" wider roof on the T-bird, and more
templates).  Now they seem to be leaning the other way.  If they make them
run the production configuration, and one manufacturer has an advantage,
believe me, they'll get off their butts and work on a new car.  

BTW, the production Pontiac doesn't even fit the silouette template, which
the T-bird and Monte Carlo fit perfectly.

Quote:
>    I do not want to see NASCAR give FORD a concession or break on
>their body design.  That's trying to make 2 wrongs into a right.  Just
>right the original wrong and everyone's back to what they originally
>designed.

Couldn't have said it better myself.  I know some people say that NASCAR
is just trying to make parity, and I'm all for a little parity.  But hell,
this isn't IROC.  Somebody's gonna have a little advantage.  NASCAR should
use spoilers and air dams as equalizers, not body modifications.  Someone
mentioned here that NASCAR should move toward a standard body for all
manufacturers.  I say absolutely NOT!  The manufacturer's war is one of
the drawing points of NASCAR, like it or not.  And people like the
association between the passenger cars and the race cars.

Quote:
>    Of course, if FORD doesn't match all 14 of its production
>templates, then that whole last paragraph and a 1/2 was meaningless.  If
>that's the case then I quote Shakespeare "To be, or not to be."
>(Southern translation, "I don't know whether to sh*# or go blind!")

Again, ALL the cars, Pontiac, Ford and Chevy, IMNSHO, should fit the
production templates from the top of the fenders, to the top of the roof,
and should fit as closely as possible, everything below the top of the
fenders.  They should also have stock widths, and there should be no body
mods for anyone.

Pat
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pat Campbell                                                    Go #6, #94  
Huntsville, AL                                          

War Eagle!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Chevy/Ford Templates

Post by Carman Oko » Wed, 03 May 1995 04:00:00

{snip}

Quote:
>       My questions are these:  How many production templates are there
>for the Monte Carlo?  How many production templates are there for the
>Thunderbird and how many does it fit?  I know that the T-Bird matches
>all 14 of the WC templates.  I'm pretty sure there are 14 production
>templates for the T-Bird and it matches all of those.  Right?  If this
>is the case, then NASCAR should rule that the MC has to match all 14
>production templates.  If FORD is stuck with an old body style they
>designed, then Chevy should have to run the body style they designed.
>Not what the WC teams designed so the car would run right.

The Ford Thunderbird does not match all of the Production templates. 1. The
rear deck lid has been raised by 1".

Quote:
>       I do not want to see NASCAR give FORD a concession or break on
>their body design.  That's trying to make 2 wrongs into a right.  Just
>right the original wrong and everyone's back to what they originally
>designed.
>       Of course, if FORD doesn't match all 14 of its production
>templates, then that whole last paragraph and a 1/2 was meaningless.  If
>that's the case then I quote Shakespeare "To be, or not to be."
>(Southern translation, "I don't know whether to sh*# or go blind!")

See above note

Carman Okon
Eastman Kodak Co.

The opinions expressed above are mine, not Kodak's

 
 
 

Chevy/Ford Templates

Post by Julius Hawkin » Wed, 03 May 1995 04:00:00

Quote:

> Hey:
>    Since there's been very little discussion on this subject,
> thought I'd bring it up again...  :)
>    In the most recent issue of Winston Cup Scene, it is stated by
> Kevin Triplett (NASCAR's WC media coordinator), that "It's been printed
> the Chevrolet fits only 12 of our templates.  The Chevrolet fits all 14
> of our templates.  It fits 12 production templates because around the
> rear deck, there was some modification."  Now I realize he is trying to
> step lightly around this subject until an official ruling/change is in
> place.  
>    My questions are these:  How many production templates are there
> for the Monte Carlo?  How many production templates are there for the
> Thunderbird and how many does it fit?  I know that the T-Bird matches
> all 14 of the WC templates.  I'm pretty sure there are 14 production
> templates for the T-Bird and it matches all of those.  Right?  If this
> is the case, then NASCAR should rule that the MC has to match all 14
> production templates.  If FORD is stuck with an old body style they
> designed, then Chevy should have to run the body style they designed.
> Not what the WC teams designed so the car would run right.
>    I do not want to see NASCAR give FORD a concession or break on
> their body design.  That's trying to make 2 wrongs into a right.  Just
> right the original wrong and everyone's back to what they originally
> designed.
>    Of course, if FORD doesn't match all 14 of its production
> templates, then that whole last paragraph and a 1/2 was meaningless.  If
> that's the case then I quote Shakespeare "To be, or not to be."
> (Southern translation, "I don't know whether to sh*# or go blind!")


> GO...94...6...28...2...FORD...FORD...FORD...FORD...FORD...FORD...FORD...
>   Special this week....GO...21...21...21...21...21...21...21...21...

Richie,
        What do you mean exactly when you write "production" templates?
       The point your missing is, there is only one set of templates
       (one set for each of the manufactures) and that's the Nascar
       templates. If GM or FoMoCo use "templates" in the manufacturing
       of there production cars, they are not the 14 Nascar uses to check
       "racecar" body shiloette(sp?)/profiles. As a production eng. I would'nt
       hesitate to guess that the car manufactures use many more than
       14 templates in the production of sub-assembly sheet metal
       components but none for the overall body shape.
         The WC Monte does fits ALL 14 Nascar templates.

   - jules

 
 
 

Chevy/Ford Templates

Post by Bruce A. Florm » Thu, 04 May 1995 04:00:00

: The production Monte Carlo fits 12 of those templates, the ones it doesn't
: fit are in the area of the rear deck.  The rear deck on the race car was
: allowed to be 6" wider than the production vehicle for "safety reasons".
: I've heard it two ways:  that Chevy lobbied for it, and that NASCAR
: mandated it because it didn't fit the "standard" rear spoiler.
: Considering that the car was originally tested in the production
: configuration, by bet is that Chevy lobbied for it.

Just prior to the TransSouth Financial 400 (at Darlington), the GM folks
circulated a paper on "Monte Carlo Mythology."  The first item that it
addressed was the wider rear deck.  Here is the excerpt:

        MYTH # 1:  The new Monte Carlo race car was not very fast when
        Chevrolet first tested it with its stock, narrow rear deck area.
        So Chevy asked NASCAR to allow the rear deck to be stretched to
        the same width as the Ford Thunderbird to make the car faster.

        FACT:  The new Monte Carlo was never tested with a narrow rear
        deck area.  Before the first Monte Carlo race car was even
        built, it was obvious to Chevrolet that the NASCAR-mandated
        57-inch-wide rear spoiler would not fit on the rounded Monte
        Carlo rear deck without some modification.  After NASCAR
        examined the Monte Carlo's rear deck dimensions and considered
        several different options, Chevrolet was told:  to widen the
        deck area by the few inches necessary to accommodate the
        57-inch-wide spoiler; to make the taillight and bumper area the
        same width as the Ford Thunderbird and Pontiac Grand Prix; and
        to use a stock production part deck lid.

Now this could be a bald faced lie, but you'd think that somebody would
have called them on it if it was.

--Bruce