In Defense of NA$CAr

In Defense of NA$CAr

Post by John McCo » Mon, 02 Oct 2006 01:20:07




Quote:
> Do NASCAR's Goodyear racing radials behave differently than street
> radials when it comes to air pressure?

Yes - they're more sensitive too it, due to having less stiff sidewalls
and a very thin tread.

Quote:
> That nitrogen article earlier in this thread stated:

> "What happens, Davis said, is that decreased air pressure flattens a
> tire, creating more surface area between the tire and the road. That
> added friction can make the engine work harder and cause tires to
> overheat, possibly leading to a blowout."

That's pretty much baloney.  The author of that article doesn't know
the difference between "friction" and "rolling resistance".

John

 
 
 

In Defense of NA$CAr

Post by Carey Aki » Mon, 02 Oct 2006 02:35:54


Quote:

> I'm just curious what you guys might advise. Suppose you're on a track
> that's not too rough on tires but significant enough that they have to be
> managed well. The fuel & tire widow are about the same (for purposes of
> pit strategy in this example) and there aren't enough cautions to count
> on. You want to make up "x" amount of positions during that run. Would you
> pass early, strain your tires and try to hold on until the next stop, or
> would you save early and try to pass later when others have used up
> theirs?

That depend on where the other cars were running, where my car was running
best, how much of a drop off on tire performance I was getting at the track
(as found earlier in the race).  I personally would try to pass early, but
that would all depend on how much my car was falling off when compared to
the rest of the field.  If it wasn't that much, then it would be worth it
because even if you car is slower, if it is only a little slower, it is
tough to pass.  If it is alot slower, you are done.

Carey in Manvel

 
 
 

In Defense of NA$CAr

Post by Hamme » Mon, 02 Oct 2006 03:19:13


Quote:



>> I'm just curious what you guys might advise. Suppose you're on a track
>> that's not too rough on tires but significant enough that they have to be
>> managed well. The fuel & tire widow are about the same (for purposes of
>> pit strategy in this example) and there aren't enough cautions to count
>> on. You want to make up "x" amount of positions during that run. Would
>> you pass early, strain your tires and try to hold on until the next stop,
>> or would you save early and try to pass later when others have used up
>> theirs?
> That depend on where the other cars were running, where my car was running
> best, how much of a drop off on tire performance I was getting at the
> track (as found earlier in the race).  I personally would try to pass
> early, but that would all depend on how much my car was falling off when
> compared to the rest of the field.  If it wasn't that much, then it would
> be worth it because even if you car is slower, if it is only a little
> slower, it is tough to pass.  If it is alot slower, you are done.

Thanks, bud.

 
 
 

In Defense of NA$CAr

Post by Carey Aki » Mon, 02 Oct 2006 23:37:02


Quote:

> Thanks, bud.

Not a problem.  I hope it works for you.  Hey, we won our feature last night
up in Lufkin, a strange track to us, and a strange track to be sure.  Just
how many quarter mile ovals out there have a huge dog leg in the back
straight.  We were out to lunch in our heat, but came from the back to win
the feature.  Makes that long tow home go a little better.

Carey in Manvel

 
 
 

In Defense of NA$CAr

Post by Hamme » Tue, 03 Oct 2006 00:24:45


Quote:



>> Thanks, bud.
> Not a problem.  I hope it works for you.  Hey, we won our feature last
> night up in Lufkin, a strange track to us, and a strange track to be sure.
> Just how many quarter mile ovals out there have a huge dog leg in the back
> straight.  We were out to lunch in our heat, but came from the back to win
> the feature.  Makes that long tow home go a little better.

Sweeet. Congrats.
 
 
 

In Defense of NA$CAr

Post by SimRace » Wed, 04 Oct 2006 06:42:12


Quote:



> > Except, I dare to say, in the cases where a driver "gets up on the
wheel"
> > and tries to overdrive the car. While running consistent lines around
the
> > track, and consistent lap times, I agree. There is a peak that will be
> > attained, and then likely maintained. But if you start pushing harder,
> > there
> > could be additional buildup IMO. But that would include a lot of
variables
> > as well, camber, track surface, changing ambient (and therefore track)
> > temps, etc.

> > I would point to my sim racing as an example, but not many people buy
> > that,
> > so I can just say listen to the drivers when they say that they need to
> > back
> > off and "cool their tires down" before they can make another run at the
> > leader since they were likely over-driving the car to catch him in the
> > first
> > place. But I've seen it whilest simming, after driving on clean track
and
> > everything going smooth say you catch a lapper, or the guy behind you
> > catches you, and in the middle of fighting off or trying to pass that
> > driver, I've often seen spikes in tire temps. You had to push harder, or
> > take a more aggressive line - or both - and it seems to take its toll on
> > the
> > meats, resulting in briefly higher temps and of course, the accompanying
> > accelerated wear.

> There will be temperature cycles during any green flag period.  This is
> where bleeding any pressure could become a liability.  Once it is lost, it
> ain't comin' back.  So, if a driver gets "elbows up" as they say in sprint
> car racing, that could generate additional heat, dump more pressure.  Now
he
> backs off.  Oops.

I see your point there, and it makes perfect sense in that context. I do
know that once your tires have reached their operating "range", small as it
may or may not be, that it is possible to get them "hotter" by beginning to
overdrive them based on the setup and whatnot. But to have some bleed off
and then slow down, yeah, you're right back into a mess of having too low a
pressure for the setup you have under the car, in the middle of a tire run,
yuck. Makes it seem that bleeding scenarios would be best served on tracks
where you can run consistent times both alone and in traffic - which is rare
at a lot of places I'd imagine.

Quote:

> Temperature cycles also have an effect on other properties, as well as
tread
> wear.

Yup. That's my opinion on it, whether or not I could physically quantify it.
That tread has an optimum operating temp. If it never gets there, the tires
aren't as "sticky" or effective as they can be. When they get too hot, then
they actually get slippery and wear at an accelerated rate IME - an ugly
double wammy.

Quote:

> Carey in Manvel

Speaking of Manvel, saw a snippet of an Autozone Busch-West race at Thunder
Hill (I think), which they said was near Kyle, TX maybe? It was on HDNet,
this past weekend, maybe Friday night. Appeared to be a basically wall-less,
slightly banked little bullring that was pretty sporty with those Busch-West
cars. No way Cup or Busch fields could run there - it appeared "full" with
22 West series cars on it - but appears on par with Mansfield in Ohio, which
hosts a CTS race....Ever been to the Kyle TX track? (I know it's asphalt,
but still...) They appeared to have a pretty full crowd, which was pleasing
to me, a fan of *local* race tracks like that. Was also glad to see a lower
series getting HD coverage. They've aired several Busch West/East races this
year on HDNet, which I highly commend the network on. They've been some
entertaining races to watch - numerous cautions aside at some venues.

- Show quoted text -

 
 
 

In Defense of NA$CAr

Post by Carey Aki » Wed, 04 Oct 2006 07:55:56


Quote:

> Speaking of Manvel, saw a snippet of an Autozone Busch-West race at
> Thunder
> Hill (I think), which they said was near Kyle, TX maybe? It was on HDNet,
> this past weekend, maybe Friday night. Appeared to be a basically
> wall-less,
> slightly banked little bullring that was pretty sporty with those
> Busch-West
> cars. No way Cup or Busch fields could run there - it appeared "full" with
> 22 West series cars on it - but appears on par with Mansfield in Ohio,
> which
> hosts a CTS race....Ever been to the Kyle TX track? (I know it's asphalt,
> but still...) They appeared to have a pretty full crowd, which was
> pleasing
> to me, a fan of *local* race tracks like that. Was also glad to see a
> lower
> series getting HD coverage. They've aired several Busch West/East races
> this
> year on HDNet, which I highly commend the network on. They've been some
> entertaining races to watch - numerous cautions aside at some venues.

We have beat the tire topic into the tarmac, so I won't comment further, but
what you are saying is exactly right.  Thunder Hill:
http://www.thunderhillraceway.com/index.html is up by Austin, and no, I
haven't been there for a race.  Earlier this season, I believe I mentioned
that our team helped out a friend who races both dirt and asphalt.  His
series is based at that track.  I remember "back in the day" when the NASCAR
Winston West series was a pretty big deal.  They didn't run in Texas much,
but most of their races were on the west coast and into Arizona and Nevada.
I do know that in 1993 they ran a joint race with ARCA at Texas World
Speedway at College Station (I was there to see it, and Darrel Waltrip win).
The first Brickyard 400 was a Winston Cup/Winston West joint race, too, if I
recall (as well as any Cup race back then at Phoenix, Sonoma and Riverside).
In my view, the restructuring of NASCAR from what it was in the 70's has
hurt the sport.  Back in the mid then, the Late Model Sportsman division ran
under national rules, with each state having a state championship.  There
were a couple of national events (like at Daytona) but they were few and far
between.  The inception of the BGN series in the place of the LMS division
killed it, with the Winston racing series basically being a points fund but
local race track rules.  But that is a topic of another post.

Carey in Manvel