Current Chase Points System

Current Chase Points System

Post by Hamme » Wed, 27 Sep 2006 00:15:28



Quote:



>> True, but instead of comfortably being in 2nd, he's 8th and fighting it
> out
>> all over again with guys whose butts he kicked over a 26 race span. I
>> just
>> don't understand how NASCAR justifies placing the 10th place Chaser only
> 45
>> points behind the leader at the beginning of the Chase. In almost every
>> sport with a playoff there is a significant advantage given to those who
>> finish top of the standings. A bye in the first round, playing the
>> weakest
>> opponent, etc. Lowering a guy who was 4-500 points behind to 45 or less
>> is
>> totally unfair to a team that had a superior regular season IMO. If they
>> spread them out 15-20 points for each Chase position, then when a MK or
>> JJ
>> did have a bad break, they'd have their well-earned point cushion to fall
>> back on.

> Ok - I see where you  were coming from.  I agree.  Just more evidence that
> the Chase sucks.

I see what you're saying too, and for the majority or the Chasers it's a
very good deal. Makes me wonder if Tony's suggestion of having 2 separate
races has some merit after all. It would certainly enhance fan interest
(mostly newbies, of course), and it would give the other guys a chance to
race their guts out without tip-toeing around the Chasers.
 
 
 

Current Chase Points System

Post by Hamme » Wed, 27 Sep 2006 00:17:41


Quote:
> X-No-Archive: Yes






>>>>I Just hope Brian France is seeing what is happening with this "Chase"
>>>>system. Likewise-It really needs to be tweeked again, if they're going
>>>>to "Have a Playoff".

>>>> It's ridiculous being that one race will hurt you drastically. Not
>>>> being a Johnson, Busch or Kahne fan-look what one accident has done to
>>>> all 3 of these guys. Now it seems like they're going to hand Gordon the
>>>> championship...

>>> Can you explain how this point system differs in that regard compared to
>>> the old system?

>>> If anything there's a distinct advantage to this point system in that
>>> any point gap is erased at the beginning of the chase.  Before the chase
>>> the 10th place drive could be much further behind then Kasey is now
>>> without getting wrecked.

>> That's a reasonable argument, but what about Jimmie Johnson?

> Jimmie Johnson today is closer, in points, to 1st than he would be had the
> points not been reset.

Points, but not position. It's much harder to pass 7 drivers than 1 in the
current points system, especially with only 8 races to go.

 
 
 

Current Chase Points System

Post by Robert R Kircher, Jr » Wed, 27 Sep 2006 00:18:14


Quote:
> X-No-Archive: Yes






>>>>I Just hope Brian France is seeing what is happening with this "Chase"
>>>>system. Likewise-It really needs to be tweeked again, if they're going
>>>>to "Have a Playoff".

>>>> It's ridiculous being that one race will hurt you drastically. Not
>>>> being a Johnson, Busch or Kahne fan-look what one accident has done to
>>>> all 3 of these guys. Now it seems like they're going to hand Gordon the
>>>> championship...

>>> Can you explain how this point system differs in that regard compared to
>>> the old system?

>>> If anything there's a distinct advantage to this point system in that
>>> any point gap is erased at the beginning of the chase.  Before the chase
>>> the 10th place drive could be much further behind then Kasey is now
>>> without getting wrecked.

>> That's a reasonable argument, but what about Jimmie Johnson?

> Jimmie Johnson today is closer, in points, to 1st than he would be had the
> points not been reset.

People forget to look at the points anymore and instead just look at the
positions.   In the old system I never paid attention to position, only to
how many point out and how many could be mad up over the remaining races.
To complicated for most now-a-days I guess.

--

Rob
"A disturbing new study finds that studies are disturbing"

- Show quoted text -


 
 
 

Current Chase Points System

Post by Hamme » Wed, 27 Sep 2006 00:19:37



Quote:






>>>> I Just hope Brian France is seeing what is happening with this "Chase"
>>>> system. Likewise-It really needs to be tweeked again, if they're going
>>>> to "Have a Playoff".

>>>> It's ridiculous being that one race will hurt you drastically. Not
>>>> being a Johnson, Busch or Kahne fan-look what one accident has done to
>>>> all 3 of these guys. Now it seems like they're going to hand Gordon the
>>>> championship...

>>> Can you explain how this point system differs in that regard compared to
>>> the old system?

>>> If anything there's a distinct advantage to this point system in that
>>> any point gap is erased at the beginning of the chase.  Before the chase
>>> the 10th place drive could be much further behind then Kasey is now
>>> without getting wrecked.

>> With the old points system the top few teams could easily have a bad race
>> and not be a penalty to the championship in the same way.  Why? They had
>> more of a points lead usually.  The others behind them already had a bad
>> race or two and over a 30+ race season everyone is going to have one.
>> Throughout the season it all evens out.

>> Now with the Chase garbage, (remember it isn't surposed to be a playoff)
>> have a bad race for something totally out of your control and its
>> magnified.  Whot gets caught up and who doesn't in the big one at
>> Talledega is often as much a part of who wins now as anything.  One day
>> someone is going to dominate the chase system.  Then what do you do??? In
>> 10 races they are going to have a 250 point lead and have the thing
>> clinched before the last race.  TV will make them change it again.

> Given, however, there are less point to make up after a bad day under the
> new system.

> And the only one to suffer as you describe is JJ.  The other were at the
> tail end anyway and had no chance under the old system and a hugely better
> chance under the new system had they had better luck.

It could happen to MK also, but your point is taken.

Quote:
> Fact is the chase sucks but I think many are blaming the chase for things
> that aren't really fact.  KK and KB would have never had a chance anyway
> so to blame the chase for their issues is just crap.

> There are so many other real reasons why the chase sucks, like the
> inability for anyone 11 back to fight their way into the top ten.  That's
> just BS. The season isn't over yet but I can't do my best to get up on
> that stage at the end of the year.  Bahhhh.  I'll give it a few more years
> and Brian will completely change the point system again.  Hopefully to
> something more reasonable.

Well said.
 
 
 

Current Chase Points System

Post by WildWease » Wed, 27 Sep 2006 00:43:48

"Robert R Kircher, Jr." wrote ...

Quote:

> And the only one to suffer as you describe is JJ.  The other were at the tail
> end anyway and had no chance under the old system and a hugely better chance
> under the new system had they had better luck.

> Fact is the chase sucks but I think many are blaming the chase for things that
> aren't really fact.  KK and KB would have never had a chance anyway so to
> blame the chase for their issues is just crap.

> There are so many other real reasons why the chase sucks, like the inability
> for anyone 11 back to fight their way into the top ten.  That's just BS. The
> season isn't over yet but I can't do my best to get up on that stage at the
> end of the year.  Bahhhh.  I'll give it a few more years and Brian will
> completely change the point system again.  Hopefully to something more
> reasonable.

Well, more than JJ has suffered.  How about MK, who would be leading in the
points instead of tied for 3rd?

And JJ, actually, is not suffering.  With the chase he is -139.  Without the
chase he's -170.

But I don't like the chase either.  So how's this sound?:

In baseball the NL East, Central and West winners get the NL East ... trophy and
championship banner when the regular season ends, even if the Wild Card team
(the Phillies this year) beats them in the playoffs and goes to the world series
and wins.  MK got nothing for being in first before the playoffs started.

Maybe nascar needs to admit that the chase is the playoffs; end the season with
a champion after 26 races with big hoopla.

Regular season is over.  and then have the 10 race playoffs for the chase
champion.  Set *everybody* 5 points apart and wave the green flag! More big
hoopla from ALL fans!

 
 
 

Current Chase Points System

Post by Hamme » Wed, 27 Sep 2006 00:45:44


Quote:

>> There are so many other real reasons why the chase sucks, like the
>> inability for anyone 11 back to fight their way into the top ten.  That's
>> just BS. The season isn't over yet but I can't do my best to get up on
>> that stage at the end of the year.  Bahhhh.  I'll give it a few more
>> years and Brian will completely change the point system again.  Hopefully
>> to something more reasonable.

 And although I understand the principle and disappointment of those in
 sports who miss the "playoffs," at least they're not usually asked to play
 10 more games for an 11th place position.
 
 
 

Current Chase Points System

Post by Hamme » Wed, 27 Sep 2006 00:31:26

Quote:


>> There are so many other real reasons why the chase sucks, like the
>> inability for anyone 11 back to fight their way into the top ten.  That's
>> just BS. The season isn't over yet but I can't do my best to get up on
>> that stage at the end of the year.  Bahhhh.  I'll give it a few more
>> years and Brian will completely change the point system again.  Hopefully
>> to something more reasonable.

And although I understand the principle and disappointment of those in
sports who miss the "playoffs," at least they're not usually asked to play
10 more games for an 11th place position.
 
 
 

Current Chase Points System

Post by Robert R Kircher, Jr » Wed, 27 Sep 2006 02:17:12


Quote:

> "Robert R Kircher, Jr." wrote ...

>> And the only one to suffer as you describe is JJ.  The other were at the
>> tail end anyway and had no chance under the old system and a hugely
>> better chance under the new system had they had better luck.

>> Fact is the chase sucks but I think many are blaming the chase for things
>> that aren't really fact.  KK and KB would have never had a chance anyway
>> so to blame the chase for their issues is just crap.

>> There are so many other real reasons why the chase sucks, like the
>> inability for anyone 11 back to fight their way into the top ten.  That's
>> just BS. The season isn't over yet but I can't do my best to get up on
>> that stage at the end of the year.  Bahhhh.  I'll give it a few more
>> years and Brian will completely change the point system again.  Hopefully
>> to something more reasonable.

> Well, more than JJ has suffered.  How about MK, who would be leading in
> the points instead of tied for 3rd?

> And JJ, actually, is not suffering.  With the chase he is -139.  Without
> the chase he's -170.

> But I don't like the chase either.  So how's this sound?:

> In baseball the NL East, Central and West winners get the NL East ...
> trophy and championship banner when the regular season ends, even if the
> Wild Card team (the Phillies this year) beats them in the playoffs and
> goes to the world series and wins.  MK got nothing for being in first
> before the playoffs started.

> Maybe nascar needs to admit that the chase is the playoffs; end the season
> with a champion after 26 races with big hoopla.

> Regular season is over.  and then have the 10 race playoffs for the chase
> champion.  Set *everybody* 5 points apart and wave the green flag! More
> big hoopla from ALL fans!

I've said this for a hand full of years and I'm sticking to it.  We are
seeing the future of NASCAR top divisions in the Toyota All Star event for
the regional series.  Eventually, with the call for markets and tracks and
the growing numbers of drivers, NASCAR will break into 2 or more divisions,
east/west, north/south, or something of the sort.  Each division will race
against themselves for the longer part of the season (maybe 26 races like
the current chase) and will crown a division champion.  Then the last 10 or
so races will be made up of the top 10-20 from each division.  At the end an
over all champion will be crowned.

Work out the details the way you'd like but that's the direction NASCAR is
going.

--

Rob
"A disturbing new study finds that studies are disturbing"

 
 
 

Current Chase Points System

Post by Jbob » Wed, 27 Sep 2006 11:53:06

Quote:


>He's guaranteed more money by the fact that he
> can't finish the season up in worse than 10th place - a position that he
> might very well not be deserving of.

Not necessarily right?  Didn't Gordon get more money last year for finishing
in 11th place than some of the top 10 finishers?
 
 
 

Current Chase Points System

Post by SG » Wed, 27 Sep 2006 12:14:22


Quote:


> >He's guaranteed more money by the fact that he
> > can't finish the season up in worse than 10th place - a
position that he
> > might very well not be deserving of.

> Not necessarily right?  Didn't Gordon get more money last year
for finishing
> in 11th place than some of the top 10 finishers?

NO, 4th highest total for the season, but season ending awards,
NO
http://jayski.com/pages/cupawards2005.htm
 
 
 

Current Chase Points System

Post by Mike Marlo » Wed, 27 Sep 2006 12:42:01


Quote:


> >He's guaranteed more money by the fact that he
> > can't finish the season up in worse than 10th place - a position that he
> > might very well not be deserving of.

> Not necessarily right?  Didn't Gordon get more money last year for
finishing
> in 11th place than some of the top 10 finishers?

I don't really know - did he?  Either way, the guys in the top ten will take
home bigger end of year checks than places 12-43.

--

-Mike-

 
 
 

Current Chase Points System

Post by Speeed Racer » Thu, 28 Sep 2006 00:59:42


Quote:
> Come on. This new points system totally sucks and is stupid. I mean to
> knock out your chances of getting the title with one wreck..Like with
> Kasey Kahne. NASCAR is turning into a big joke..Why cant it be like the
> Busch series. Or like back in the good ole days when the King
> Raced...Never mind about the last 10 races...You raced you ***off
> until the last race of the year...

The chase winner is only a legitamate champion in my eyes if he would have
won under the old point system as well.
Stewart 2005-yes
Kurt Busch 2004-nope
 
 
 

Current Chase Points System

Post by Hamme » Thu, 28 Sep 2006 01:14:51


Quote:



>> Come on. This new points system totally sucks and is stupid. I mean to
>> knock out your chances of getting the title with one wreck..Like with
>> Kasey Kahne. NASCAR is turning into a big joke..Why cant it be like the
>> Busch series. Or like back in the good ole days when the King
>> Raced...Never mind about the last 10 races...You raced you ***off
>> until the last race of the year...

> The chase winner is only a legitamate champion in my eyes if he would have
> won under the old point system as well.
> Stewart 2005-yes
> Kurt Busch 2004-nope

I tried to have the same philosophy and apply it to my feelings on JJ, but
truth is the Chase changes the way -everyone- races, so to try and compare
this way isn't really accurate IMO.