To Red Flag, or Not To Red Flag......

To Red Flag, or Not To Red Flag......

Post by 43Fa » Fri, 12 Jul 2002 22:36:56


Been thinking about this... and I've changed my opinion on it.  If WC had(or
ever put into effect) the same rule as the NCTS has... that a race won't end
under caution, then maybe red flag.  But, since they don't, and since it
doesn't look like they're going to, I say the only time for a red flag
situation is when the track is blocked to the point that the rest of the
cars can't run caution laps safely, or it's unsafe for the safety crews to
be cleaning up if the cars continue to run caution laps.

At the same time, I think racing back to the caution should be the deal.  No
more of this holding position when the caution comes out, if you can beat
the other guy back to the line, take the position.  And none of this deal
that it's not safe, or something like that.  Racing back to the caution, as
long as everyone knows that's the deal, is no less/more safe than the rest
of the race.

Lets get some "racing" back into racing.

 
 
 

To Red Flag, or Not To Red Flag......

Post by Jim Horn » Fri, 12 Jul 2002 23:03:29


: Been thinking about this... and I've changed my opinion on it.  If WC
had(or
: ever put into effect) the same rule as the NCTS has... that a race won't
end
: under caution, then maybe red flag.  But, since they don't, and since it
: doesn't look like they're going to, I say the only time for a red flag
: situation is when the track is blocked to the point that the rest of the
: cars can't run caution laps safely, or it's unsafe for the safety crews to
: be cleaning up if the cars continue to run caution laps.

I agree totally here...

:
: At the same time, I think racing back to the caution should be the deal.

Unless as you mentioned the track is blocked.  The you must rely on a good
spotter to make sure there is no unseen problems.  Otherwise the problem
will escalate.

: No
: more of this holding position when the caution comes out, if you can beat
: the other guy back to the line, take the position.  And none of this deal
: that it's not safe, or something like that.  Racing back to the caution,
as
: long as everyone knows that's the deal, is no less/more safe than the rest
: of the race.

It has been this way in WC for as long as I remember, however when I watched
the reply last night of the Daytona 400 from Saturday night on more than one
occasion DW made mentioned of the "gentleman's agreement" not to race back
to the caution.  However the 24 car was balls to the wall trying to get a
lap back on more that one occasion.  So when is it acceptable to 'race back
to the line' and what positions would that apply to?  Can the 35th place car
try to gain 5 or 10 spots? or is that reserved only for those that have a
chance to get back on the lead lap or to get one of their laps back?  And it
will vary from track to track too.

: Lets get some "racing" back into racing.
:
Jim

 
 
 

To Red Flag, or Not To Red Flag......

Post by SimRace » Fri, 12 Jul 2002 23:28:41


Quote:
> Been thinking about this... and I've changed my opinion on it.  If WC
had(or
> ever put into effect) the same rule as the NCTS has... that a race won't
end
> under caution, then maybe red flag.  But, since they don't, and since it
> doesn't look like they're going to, I say the only time for a red flag
> situation is when the track is blocked to the point that the rest of the
> cars can't run caution laps safely, or it's unsafe for the safety crews to
> be cleaning up if the cars continue to run caution laps.

> At the same time, I think racing back to the caution should be the deal.
No
> more of this holding position when the caution comes out, if you can beat
> the other guy back to the line, take the position.  And none of this deal
> that it's not safe, or something like that.  Racing back to the caution,
as
> long as everyone knows that's the deal, is no less/more safe than the rest
> of the race.

> Lets get some "racing" back into racing.

The 'gentlemen's agreement' on racing back to the yellow works, as late in
the race, they will race back to the yellow. Even as seen by JG trying in
desperation to get his lap back last Saturday, they will race back anyway if
their situation warrants it.

The green-white-checkers from the CTS is a ricky proposition so I think it
should stay in the trucks.

I think they need to make a rule like Kenny Wallace suggested on Inside
Winston Cup on Monday, make a cutoff number of laps for a red flag finish
depending on track length, as the IWC panel agreed with me and NASCAR that 1
or 2 laps at Daytona or Talladega was a bad idea (takes over a lap to get to
speed). BUT 1 or 2 laps at a Bristol or Martinsville might be entertaining
and a lot less dangerous. Its a tough call to make, glad I ain't NASCAR.

 
 
 

To Red Flag, or Not To Red Flag......

Post by -v- » Fri, 12 Jul 2002 23:42:35


Quote:
> Been thinking about this... and I've changed my opinion on it.  If WC
had(or
> ever put into effect) the same rule as the NCTS has... that a race won't
end
> under caution, then maybe red flag.  But, since they don't, and since it
> doesn't look like they're going to, I say the only time for a red flag
> situation is when the track is blocked to the point that the rest of the
> cars can't run caution laps safely, or it's unsafe for the safety crews to
> be cleaning up if the cars continue to run caution laps.

> At the same time, I think racing back to the caution should be the deal.
No
> more of this holding position when the caution comes out, if you can beat
> the other guy back to the line, take the position.  And none of this deal
> that it's not safe, or something like that.  Racing back to the caution,
as
> long as everyone knows that's the deal, is no less/more safe than the rest
> of the race.

> Lets get some "racing" back into racing.

Exactly right 43fan.
--
-v-
Go #8 #20 #29
 
 
 

To Red Flag, or Not To Red Flag......

Post by Ms.Goodwren » Sat, 13 Jul 2002 00:24:29

<snip>

Quote:

>At the same time, I think racing back to the caution should be the deal.  No
>more of this holding position when the caution comes out, if you can beat
>the other guy back to the line, take the position.  And none of this deal
>that it's not safe, or something like that.  Racing back to the caution, as
>long as everyone knows that's the deal, is no less/more safe than the rest
>of the race.

...and certainly no less safe than the dash for position in a green/white/checkers deal.  

I'll echo Mr.-v- here -- this is the way it worked for 50+ years, so leave it alone.  These red
flags at the end are manufactured finishes and upset an elemental part of the sport.  Just because
Joe and Betty Newbie hate it doesn't mean you change the paradiggum.  ;-)

Ms.Goodwrench                

You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire.
All you're doing is recording it.  - Art Buchwald

 
 
 

To Red Flag, or Not To Red Flag......

Post by cfswester » Sat, 13 Jul 2002 00:16:16

You got that red flag stuff right.  Having one set of  rules for the start
of  the race and another set of  rules for the end of  the race means WC is
a show, not a sport.

And that "Goodyear" caution at  the beginning of  the race is equally bogus.
Think about that.  Is a team going to pull their car off  the track and go
home if  they do not like the tire wear ?  Of  course not. And if  the
Goodyear guys suggest an air pressure adjustment do the teams have to follow
it ? Nope.  There is always some car making an early pit stop for something
so they can just examine the tires that come off  that car. I am not against
safety measures but that tire caution is just about silly.  They mount four
fresh tires and go through a tank of  gas before they can do anything about
it anyhow. By then the race is about half over.  And having all the cars pit
on the same lap is way more dangerous to the over the wall gang than letting
them run until the normal staggered green flag stops.

Quote:
> Been thinking about this... and I've changed my opinion on it.  If WC
had(or
> ever put into effect) the same rule as the NCTS has... that a race won't
end
> under caution, then maybe red flag.  But, since they don't, and since it
> doesn't look like they're going to, I say the only time for a red flag
> situation is when the track is blocked to the point that the rest of the
> cars can't run caution laps safely, or it's unsafe for the safety crews to
> be cleaning up if the cars continue to run caution laps.

> At the same time, I think racing back to the caution should be the deal.
No
> more of this holding position when the caution comes out, if you can beat
> the other guy back to the line, take the position.  And none of this deal
> that it's not safe, or something like that.  Racing back to the caution,
as
> long as everyone knows that's the deal, is no less/more safe than the rest
> of the race.

> Lets get some "racing" back into racing.