Sport Today

Don't get worked up about it. Most of Italy's detractors get their opinions
from "traditional" English nonsense, most of it stems from English jealousy
over the years, and bitterness. You can hear it from their biased announcers
everytime
Italy play, they downplay Italian tactics and criticize it because they have
nothing
of their own to cheer for. It IS a negative mindset that causes that, not
the postive one that Italians are generally known for. Perhaps for this
reason, none other than
the Karmic effect the English mindset has on their soccer team. Good. Misery
loves company and they want others to share in their misery.

Then you have newbies to the sport, specifically with the Yankee mindset
that Goals is all that matters. This is why supreme sports like Soccer and
Hockey fail to make it in America, where talentless sports like Football
(American version) are popular. With American Football you have only to be
juiced up on steroids and run fast in order to win. Not a lot of skill and
talent goes into that, just hard work, which isn't bad, but it doesn't have
the same dynamics as a sport such as soccer that combines hard work, with
skill, tactics, and desire to produce some of the best (natural) athletes in
the world.

--
Aqua
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Ruis *** theories:

Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Date: Friday, June 16, 2000 10:22 AM

I happen to love Italian soccer.
followed by:
If you like I can list all of the cheating, *** and other
questionable ethics in Italian football.
Or did you have special seminars on diving, cheating and other "fair play"
technique before the start of Euro 2000?
Yes, and your lucky that UEFA protects your ass. Otherwise Italy 1
Turkey 1.
At least, we don't cheat half as much as you do.

-----------
Sidd's love for the Azzurri:

Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Date: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: Kick some butt, England!

"Romania will knock Italy out. My prediction."
"Italy can easily be beaten by Romania..."

"Toldo."
"He makes terrible mistakes"
But honestly, Italy can win if they play their perfect
professional game,
which I somehow doubt. They havent
been good against Turkey and Sweden.

First there are a few flaws in your argument. One, you chose 50 years
because it better supports your bastardized statistics. If one was to go
that far back, why not use the first 20 years of WC and add the first 70
years, since soccer did not evolve much until the 70's, when more defensive
minded tactics were introduced. From the 30's till the 70's soccer styles
were relatively the same. Therefore, your statistics are useless. In that
time period Italy had 2 WC, Uruguay 2, Brazil 2, Germany 1, and Argentina 1.
After the 70's when Catennacio was introduced (your second mistake) Brazil
has won only one in 1994, whereas Argentina 2, Germany 2, and Italy and
France each one. But during that time Italy has made the finals 3 times, and
semi's 2 times with a record of One WC, Two 2nd place finished, 2 3rd a 4th
and a 5th. Germany made the finals 4 times, winning it twice, and Argentina
3 times winning it twice. France made the finals Once, winning it once.

If you want to talk about performances you can use the whole history in
which case Brazil is most succesful, followed by Germany and Italy. Or you
can correctly use the last 20 years which better reflects the evolution of
the game, in which case Germany is clearly the best team, followed by Italy
and Brazil/Argentina/France.
The German style emphasized defence first with attack once control has been
established, Italian style is counter attack, and they do it better than
all. Brazil tried playing the soccer that won it for them in the 60's but
realized they had to switch to a more German/Italian style in 94 to win, and
then reversed the clock and went back to "open" football in 98 and got
slaughtered by a "catennacio" style France.

Tactics have evolved and no longer will you see individuals win WC's
anymore. Now teamwork is essential and Brazil will have to evolve with the
rest of us. If they desire to continue playing "open" and
individualistically, they will get more 3-0 lessons like the one France gave
them.

Once again, you prove ignorant because Catenaccio was born after 1970. So
you should get your facts straight.

It was born after 1970. One again, get your facts straight.

Obviously not. Since 1970 Italy has 3 WC finals, One win 2 2nd, one 3rd, one
4th and one 5th. Brazil conversly has 2 finals, One win, one 2nd.

If we look at head on competitions in the last 20 years between Italy and
Germany/Brazil/Argentina Italy is clearly on top.

--
Aqua
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Ruis *** theories:

Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Date: Friday, June 16, 2000 10:22 AM

I happen to love Italian soccer.
followed by:
If you like I can list all of the cheating, *** and other
questionable ethics in Italian football.
Or did you have special seminars on diving, cheating and other "fair play"
technique before the start of Euro 2000?
Yes, and your lucky that UEFA protects your ass. Otherwise Italy 1
Turkey 1.
At least, we don't cheat half as much as you do.

-----------
Sidd's love for the Azzurri:

Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Date: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: Kick some butt, England!

"Romania will knock Italy out. My prediction."
"Italy can easily be beaten by Romania..."

"Toldo."
"He makes terrible mistakes"
But honestly, Italy can win if they play their perfect
professional game,
which I somehow doubt. They havent
been good against Turkey and Sweden.

Thats the funny thing about it all. Holland played all attack and had 3-4
good chances. Italy played counter attack and produced two quality chances.
Something wrong with that picture. It says Holland are incompetent at
attacking, or Italy is damn effective at shutting them down. Perhaps a bit
of both, but in light of Hollands thrashing of Yugo, I would give Italy the
edge on that fact. They deserve the credit!

Again two errors in that statement. IF we talk about the last 50 years it
brings us to 1950. Since WC soccer started in 1930, the first 50 years would
bring us to 1980. Somewhere in between we have an overlap of about 30 years
from 1950 to 1980. If we believe that catennacio (as you erroneously do)
started post WWII (which it didn't) then it DID exist in the first 50 years
of World Cup soccer. However, we CAN throw all of that out the window since
it evolved after 1970. Something you seem to not know, amongst other things.

And again, since 1970 Italy is quite successful. And since the inception of
World soccer tournaments Italy is quite successful.

Anyone who says that Italy/Holland wasn't entertaining is an idiot. It was
MUCH more entertaining that Holland/Yugo which became a pathetic show after
the third goal, or Holland/Denmark which was equally pathetic.

Yugo/Spain was entertaining, but that was because of the theatrics in the
dying minutes. Italy/Holland was entertaining the whole match, even from a
neutral standpoint.

Anyone who was bored during that game is not a soccer fan.

Yes France is a good team, and I especially like the way the played counter
attack against Spain. I don't know why so many people hate France...they
are a quality soccer team that emphasized defence first. It will be quite a
battle
to score tommorow. But the battle is the most fun!

--
Aqua
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Ruis *** theories:

Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Date: Friday, June 16, 2000 10:22 AM

I happen to love Italian soccer.
followed by:
If you like I can list all of the cheating, *** and other
questionable ethics in Italian football.
Or did you have special seminars on diving, cheating and other "fair play"
technique before the start of Euro 2000?
Yes, and your lucky that UEFA protects your ass. Otherwise Italy 1
Turkey 1.
At least, we don't cheat half as much as you do.

-----------
Sidd's love for the Azzurri:

Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Date: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: Kick some butt, England!

"Romania will knock Italy out. My prediction."
"Italy can easily be beaten by Romania..."

"Toldo."
"He makes terrible mistakes"
But honestly, Italy can win if they play their perfect
professional game,
which I somehow doubt. They havent
been good against Turkey and Sweden.

It's a cultural thing. Other countries love the game of football too much
to play the Italian way. Italians love winning by spoiling the game and
they seem to have no conscience about it. Other cultures can't understand
it.

Zoff is your Mussolini. String him up and come over with the good guys.

Oh, but you can't can you, because you couldn't compete.

These teams were plain and honestly no good. Italy are no good either
but use a means of winning that is not so honest, that's the problem.

:

Just one WC for France ? Last time I checked 1984 was less than 20 years
ago ...

--
Pierre.

"It will be everyone"?

Is this the first year you follow football?

Italy has no monopoly to the "let's play spoiling and pray
for a break" style of football. It has been there all the time.
USA in 94 against Brazil, Sweden in 94 against
Brazil, Norway in 1998 and 2000, Argentina in 90, Brazil in
74, Spain in 84, Czechoslavia in 1962, Uruguay in 1970,
Uruguay in 1999 Copa America, West Germany in 1986,
Ireland in 1990 and 1994, Aston Villa in the 2000 FA Cup final,
Newcastle in the 1999 FA Cup final...

Most of these teams get decent results by using this tactic. USA
losing 1-0 to Brazil is a very respectable result. By playing a
wide-open game, it can easily be 4-0.

I mean, this is not the first time an inferior team plays this
type of game and hopes for the best, and it won't be the last
time.

You are giving too much credit to Italy, or you haven't
followed that much football, and thought that Italy is the be-all and
end-all of this negative tactic...

--

Ed Lor

disgusting for people not having a soccer culture.
Just the fact that you think both teams could paly that way proves it.
No team would defend like Italy if the other team isn't attacking like
Holland.

Claudio Mantelli

Remove SPAMMERSF*CK from my email address to reply

What countries? Spain-we-always-play-better-but-we-dont-win-a-damn?
Because I can report you some media form other countries.
France: "Eternelle Italie", Germany "Holland, 11 idiots", Engalnd
"Italy played with heart".
As far as I know the only country that unanimously attacked us was
Spain. But Spain still has to win a cup before talking.

You confuse dives with looking for contact. One thing is fainting in
the box as Zenden did, one is crossing the defenders' path as Del
Piero and Totti did.

Good sterotype. I saw yugoslavian, dutch, english...almost players
from every country diving.

So you'd be surprised to find out that we suffer more fouls than we
make in half of our matches.

Bullshits. In no sports you play well when your game takes you
nowhere.

Claudio Mantelli

Remove SPAMMERSF*CK from my email address to reply

Football is a game that provides the win to the team that scores 1
goal more than the opponent.
Criticizing excessive defense has the same meaning of criticizing
excessive attack.

Unless, of course, you're an idiot that has fun watching matches full
of goals and defensive mistakes (eg. like Brasil-Denmark '98).

Claudio Mantelli

Remove SPAMMERSF*CK from my email address to reply

I am not advocating excessive attack. I think France are a good
team to watch. Enough said?