Sport Today

by **bila..** » Fri, 30 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Today showed everything that is wrong with football.
To be fair, Italy won 100% fairly, and were forced to defend after
being down to 10 men.
But...Even if they played with 11 the strategy would have been the
same, defend with 9 men and hope for a goal on a counter attack.

The game lost big today, with a team that had 70% of the possesion and
something like 15 shots for and 3 against, going out on a round of
russian roulette.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

by **Mrv** » Fri, 30 Jun 2000 04:00:00

The goal is to win and get to the final. It doesn't have to be pretty.
Offense sells tickets but Defense wins titles.

Quote:

> Today showed everything that is wrong with football.
> To be fair, Italy won 100% fairly, and were forced to defend after
> being down to 10 men.
> But...Even if they played with 11 the strategy would have been the
> same, defend with 9 men and hope for a goal on a counter attack.

> The game lost big today, with a team that had 70% of the possesion and
> something like 15 shots for and 3 against, going out on a round of
> russian roulette.

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

by **bila..** » Fri, 30 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Look at it this way....if it wasnt for entertainment, football would be
like water polo or field hockey. The game is so big because it gives
the fans something special.
If that something is gone, the game is destroyed.
Today's debacle wont change the face of the game, but it does remind us
how meaningless all the creative and exciting aspects of the sport can
be if you can just win by putting 10 men in your penalty box and hoping
for luck on the other end.

Quote:

> The goal is to win and get to the final. It doesn't have to be
pretty.
> Offense sells tickets but Defense wins titles.

> > Today showed everything that is wrong with football.
> > To be fair, Italy won 100% fairly, and were forced to defend after
> > being down to 10 men.
> > But...Even if they played with 11 the strategy would have been the
> > same, defend with 9 men and hope for a goal on a counter attack.

> > The game lost big today, with a team that had 70% of the possesion
and
> > something like 15 shots for and 3 against, going out on a round of
> > russian roulette.

> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

by **Rhubar** » Fri, 30 Jun 2000 04:00:00

And when nobody wants to watch the game, the title is a worthless waste of
time.

For football's sake I hope France win.

Three contributions to football from Italy:

1. Negative tactics
2. Diving
3. Professional Foul

Holland gave us total football.

Quote:

> The goal is to win and get to the final. It doesn't have to be pretty.
> Offense sells tickets but Defense wins titles.

> > Today showed everything that is wrong with football.
> > To be fair, Italy won 100% fairly, and were forced to defend after
> > being down to 10 men.
> > But...Even if they played with 11 the strategy would have been the
> > same, defend with 9 men and hope for a goal on a counter attack.

> > The game lost big today, with a team that had 70% of the possesion and
> > something like 15 shots for and 3 against, going out on a round of
> > russian roulette.

> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.

by **bordon_is_g..** » Fri, 30 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> The goal is to win and get to the final. It doesn't have to be
pretty.
> Offense sells tickets but Defense wins titles.

Not necessarily.
In the last 50 years, Italy won one WC and no European Cup, which is the
same mark as England and France and way below the mark achieved by
more offensive-minded countries such as Brazil, Argentina or Germany.

Bordon_is_gone!

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

by **Mrv** » Fri, 30 Jun 2000 04:00:00

It ain't worthless to the French and Italian publics. Only to you. So don't
watch it.

Quote:

> And when nobody wants to watch the game, the title is a worthless waste of
> time.

> For football's sake I hope France win.

> Three contributions to football from Italy:

> 1. Negative tactics
> 2. Diving
> 3. Professional Foul

> Holland gave us total football.

> > The goal is to win and get to the final. It doesn't have to be pretty.
> > Offense sells tickets but Defense wins titles.

> > > Today showed everything that is wrong with football.
> > > To be fair, Italy won 100% fairly, and were forced to defend after
> > > being down to 10 men.
> > > But...Even if they played with 11 the strategy would have been the
> > > same, defend with 9 men and hope for a goal on a counter attack.

> > > The game lost big today, with a team that had 70% of the possesion and
> > > something like 15 shots for and 3 against, going out on a round of
> > > russian roulette.

> > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > > Before you buy.

by **Mrv** » Fri, 30 Jun 2000 04:00:00

Luck? They should learn to shot penalties then you would have had your
dream Final.

Quote:

> Look at it this way....if it wasnt for entertainment, football would be
> like water polo or field hockey. The game is so big because it gives
> the fans something special.
> If that something is gone, the game is destroyed.
> Today's debacle wont change the face of the game, but it does remind us
> how meaningless all the creative and exciting aspects of the sport can
> be if you can just win by putting 10 men in your penalty box and hoping
> for luck on the other end.

> > The goal is to win and get to the final. It doesn't have to be
> pretty.
> > Offense sells tickets but Defense wins titles.

> > > Today showed everything that is wrong with football.
> > > To be fair, Italy won 100% fairly, and were forced to defend after
> > > being down to 10 men.
> > > But...Even if they played with 11 the strategy would have been the
> > > same, defend with 9 men and hope for a goal on a counter attack.

> > > The game lost big today, with a team that had 70% of the possesion
> and
> > > something like 15 shots for and 3 against, going out on a round of
> > > russian roulette.

> > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > > Before you buy.

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

by **Mrv** » Fri, 30 Jun 2000 04:00:00

You forgot to mention the first 50 years. But heck that doesn't count.

Quote:

> > The goal is to win and get to the final. It doesn't have to be
> pretty.
> > Offense sells tickets but Defense wins titles.

> Not necessarily.
> In the last 50 years, Italy won one WC and no European Cup, which is the
> same mark as England and France and way below the mark achieved by
> more offensive-minded countries such as Brazil, Argentina or Germany.

> Bordon_is_gone!

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

by **Mik** » Fri, 30 Jun 2000 04:00:00

My first time here in this group and I think the argument by some of you
is petty.

The goal is to win. Isn't it?

Italy doesn't play the most attractive soccer but they've been more
successful than many countries who do. They played their style and won
today they're in the final.

The final on Sunday should be a competitive affair.

by **Rhubar** » Sat, 01 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Actually I believe Italy played genuine honest attacking
football 50 years ago. It's the last 50 years they have been trying to ruin
the game.

And the current players have won nothing with Italy.

Quote:

> You forgot to mention the first 50 years. But heck that doesn't count.

> > > The goal is to win and get to the final. It doesn't have to be
> > pretty.
> > > Offense sells tickets but Defense wins titles.

> > Not necessarily.
> > In the last 50 years, Italy won one WC and no European Cup, which is the
> > same mark as England and France and way below the mark achieved by
> > more offensive-minded countries such as Brazil, Argentina or Germany.

> > Bordon_is_gone!

> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.

by **Rhubar** » Sat, 01 Jul 2000 04:00:00

I'll watch Zidane, Henry and company anytime, they play
the real thing and are a joy to watch for anyone.

Quote:

> It ain't worthless to the French and Italian publics. Only to you. So
don't
> watch it.

> > And when nobody wants to watch the game, the title is a worthless waste
of
> > time.

> > For football's sake I hope France win.

> > Three contributions to football from Italy:

> > 1. Negative tactics
> > 2. Diving
> > 3. Professional Foul

> > Holland gave us total football.

> > > The goal is to win and get to the final. It doesn't have to be
pretty.
> > > Offense sells tickets but Defense wins titles.

> > > > Today showed everything that is wrong with football.
> > > > To be fair, Italy won 100% fairly, and were forced to defend after
> > > > being down to 10 men.
> > > > But...Even if they played with 11 the strategy would have been the
> > > > same, defend with 9 men and hope for a goal on a counter attack.

> > > > The game lost big today, with a team that had 70% of the possesion
and
> > > > something like 15 shots for and 3 against, going out on a round of
> > > > russian roulette.

> > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > > > Before you buy.

by **Ian** » Sat, 01 Jul 2000 04:00:00

They gave us an display of pretty passing, but they couldn't score from open
play. They couldn't score when gifted two penalties. They couldn't convert
more than 1 of 4 penalties in the shootout. They displayed a lack of skill
and a total lack of heart. I don't know what I would be thinking if I were a
Dutch fan...

Ian

Quote:

> And when nobody wants to watch the game, the title is a worthless waste of
> time.

> For football's sake I hope France win.

> Three contributions to football from Italy:

> 1. Negative tactics
> 2. Diving
> 3. Professional Foul

> Holland gave us total football.

> > The goal is to win and get to the final. It doesn't have to be pretty.
> > Offense sells tickets but Defense wins titles.

> > > Today showed everything that is wrong with football.
> > > To be fair, Italy won 100% fairly, and were forced to defend after
> > > being down to 10 men.
> > > But...Even if they played with 11 the strategy would have been the
> > > same, defend with 9 men and hope for a goal on a counter attack.

> > > The game lost big today, with a team that had 70% of the possesion and
> > > something like 15 shots for and 3 against, going out on a round of
> > > russian roulette.

> > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > > Before you buy.

by **Ian** » Sat, 01 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Did you watch the 1990 WC final?

Quote:

> > The goal is to win and get to the final. It doesn't have to be
> pretty.
> > Offense sells tickets but Defense wins titles.

> Not necessarily.
> In the last 50 years, Italy won one WC and no European Cup, which is the
> same mark as England and France and way below the mark achieved by
> more offensive-minded countries such as Brazil, Argentina or Germany.

> Bordon_is_gone!

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

by **Edward Lo** » Sat, 01 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> > > The goal is to win and get to the final. It doesn't have to be
> > pretty.
> > > Offense sells tickets but Defense wins titles.

> > Not necessarily.
> > In the last 50 years, Italy won one WC and no European Cup, which is the
> > same mark as England and France and way below the mark achieved by
> > more offensive-minded countries such as Brazil, Argentina or Germany.

What a bunch of crap.

1968 European Championship: Italy 1 Yugoslavia, replay: Italy 2 Yugslavia 0.

In the last 50 years, which European countries have the most success?
Not counting Euro 2000:

champions final final four
1. Germany 6 (3EC, 3WC) 5 (2EC, 3WC) 4 (2EC, 2WC)
2. Italy 2 (1EC, 1WC) 2 (0EC, 2WC) 3 (2EC, 2WC)
3. France 2 (1EC, 1WC) 0 5 (2EC, 3WC)
4. USSR 1 (1EC) 3 (3EC) 2 (1WC, 1EC)
5. Holland 1 (1EC) 2 (2WC) 4 (2EC, 1WC)
6. Czech 1 (1EC) 2 (1EC, 1WC) 2 (2EC)
7. England 1 (1WC) 0 3 (2EC, 1WC)
8. Spain 1 (1EC) 0 1 (1WC)

You may not like the Italian style. I don't like it either. But the name of
the game is to win, not to get style points. In that regard, Italy
is the second most successful country in the past 50 years.

The way to crush the Italian style is to make it unsuccessful.
Unfortunately,
that's very difficult. As long as it is successful, it will be used.

--

Ed Lor

by **Peter Phun** » Sat, 01 Jul 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> Luck? They should learn to shot penalties then you would have had your
> dream Final.

> > Look at it this way....if it wasnt for entertainment, football would be
> > like water polo or field hockey. The game is so big because it gives
> > the fans something special.
> > If that something is gone, the game is destroyed.
> > Today's debacle wont change the face of the game, but it does remind us
> > how meaningless all the creative and exciting aspects of the sport can
> > be if you can just win by putting 10 men in your penalty box and hoping
> > for luck on the other end.

JUST win by putting 10 men in your box and win? You guys talk like that's
the easist thing to do in the world. Put most teams in Italy's situation
today and they would have crashed and burned. Italy is just disciplined
enough to pull it off and with the help of a great Toldo save on the 1st
penalty and some fragile Dutch shooting but you need a little luck always :)

And for all you people who keep comparing Italy to Norway, quit it, it's
idiotic and proves you don't know how to watch football. Italy showed flair
and patience in their 1st 4 games and outscored their opponents 8-2. Norway
barely scored a goal and defended desperately vs Slovenia to survive, or so
they thought. Italy stuggled against the the host nation in a game they were
3-1 underdogs. How else are they going to win, not by attacking suicide.

Peter

Sport Today

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