Sport Today

[old stuff deleted]

The "IFFHS" Club ranking.
------------------------

1991 Rules:

Roughly, the national championships count twice as much as the national
cups.  All other national tournaments (league cups etc) are not counted.

Continental cups roughly count twice as much as national championships.

National championships:  every country has a multiplication factor M; for
1991, this was 5 for Italy, 4 for Argentina, Brazil, England, Germany,
and Spain, 3 for France, Uruguay, Mexico, Netherlands, and quite a few
others, 2 for e.g. Greece, Egypt, Denmark, and Austria (among many others),
1 for Luxembourg and the like.  Every win in the national league gives
a team M points, every draw M/2, every loss 0.  No correction for number
of games is made except in extremal cases.  The second divisions of
England, Germany, Italy and Spain are given M=2.  France was moved into
the category with M=4 for 1994 (there were several less important
changes).

National cup: every country has again a multiplication factor N.  If M=5,
N=20; M=4 then N=18; M=3 then N=12; M=2 then N=7; M=1 then N=3,5.  (No,
there's no logic in this; N/M is far from constant.)  If a team reaches
the 1/8 final in each country, it gets N points; if it needed extra time
or a penalty shoot out, only N/2 (and the loser of that 1/16 final also
get N/2).  The same applies each subsequent round.  I.e., the Italian
cup winner can get maximally 5x20=100 points (if no extra time was needed),
the Dutch cup winner maximally 60, the Luxembourg one maximally 17,5.

Continental cups: in Europe, every win in a European cup competition (no
matter which) counts for 25 points, a draw 12,5, a loss 0.  (This was
changed to 20, 10, and 0 in 1994.)  In South America, these numbers ae
15, 7,5, and 0, respectively (because clubs can enter several tournaments).
Stuff like the European Super Cup, the Copa Conmebol, etc., is all counted
and the same way as the Champions Cup or the Copa Libertadores.  For all
other continents, wins give 8, draws 4 points, with the exception of the
Caribbean qualifying competition for the Concacaf Cup (4 and 2).

I'm sure a lot of thinking went into this construction.  There are some
obvious flaws, such as the N/M ratio, the lack of consideration of whom
a team actually is winning against, etc. etc.

The maximal possible score is something like 500 points.  The top-10
from 1991 to 1994:

     1991
 1.Roma (Italy)                  347,5
 2.Crvena zvezda (Yugoslavia)    344,5
 3.Olympique Marseille (France)  299,5
 4.Sampdoria (Italy)             287,5
 5.Manchester United (England)   283,0
 6.Barcelona (Spain)             278,5
 7.Torino (Italy)                272,5
 8.Werder Bremen (Germany)       261,0
 9.Atletico Madrid (Spain)       255,5
10.Tottenham Hotspur (England)   254,5

Non-Europe-non-SA teams in top-100:
74.America (Mexico)              124,5
82.Puebla (Mexico)               116,5
83.Monterrey (Mexico)            115,5
91.Power Dynamos (Zambia)        106,5
100.Univ. Guadalajara (Mexico)   103,5

     1992
 1.Ajax (Netherlands)            331,0
 2.Milan (Italy)                 330,0
 3.Real Madrid (Spain)           323,0
 4.Rangers (Scotland)            289,0
 5.Atletico Madrid (Spain)       286,5
 6.Juventus (Italy)              277,5
 7.Colo Colo (Chile)             268,5
 8.Torino (Italy)                265,0
 9.Benfica (Portugal)            264.5
10.Sparta Praha (Czechoslovakia) 260,0

Non-Europe-non-SA teams in top-100:
95.America (Mexico)              107,0

     1993
 1.Juventus (Italy)              372,7
 2.Milan (Italy)                 367,5
 3.Barcelona (Spain)             319,0
 4.Sao Paulo (Brazil)            310,0
 5.Parma (Italy)                 305,0
 6.Spartak Moskva (Russia)       300,0
 7.Real Madrid (Spain)           296,5
 8.Internazionale (Italy)        285,0
 9.Paris Saint-Germain (France)  264,5
10.Flamengo (Brazil)             263,5

Non-Europe-non-SA teams in top-100:
64.Al Ahly (Egypt)               141,0
90.Paramatta Melita (Australia)  109,5
93.Verdy Kawasaki (Japan)        108,5
95.Leon (Mexico)                 106,0

     1994
 1.Paris Saint-Germain (France)  334,0
 2.Parma (Italy)                 332,5
 3.Milan (Italy)                 310,0
 4.Barcelona (Spain)             296,5
 5.Sao Paulo (Brazil)            284,0
 6.Porto (Portugal)              262,0
 7.Juventus (Italy)              257,5
 8.Manchester United (England)   246,0
 9.Lazio (Italy)                 245,0
10.Velez Sarsfield (Argentina)   243,5

Non-Europe-non-SA teams in top-100:
82.Esperance Sportif (Tunisia)   118,0

I don't have the full 1995 table yet, but Hamid Dastkar already posted
the top-10:

     1995
 1.Milan (Italy)
 2.Juventus (Italy)
 3.Ajax (Netherlands)
 4.Gremio (Brazil)
 5.Parma (Italy)
 6.Paris Saint-Germain (France)
 7.Deportivo La Coruna (Spain)
 8.River Plate (Argentina)
 9.Bayern Munchen (Germany)
10.Borussia Dortmund (Germany)

What can we conclude from all this:

 1) Southern American clubs are being severely ***ed in this system;
 2) teams from outside Europe and SA hardly enter the top-100;
 3) going through a complete calendar year unbeaten (except for a
    sudden death extra time in the national cup) is not enough to claim
    first place;
 4) UEFA Cup is more important than Champions Cup (more rounds; at least
    for the earlier years of this system);
 5) the fact that it sucks is probably no fault of the algorithm itself
    but inherent to any attempt to list clubs like this; it might be fun
    to compare the list with the actual trophies that teams won that year
    but I'm not going to bother.

Just for the hell of it, the development of some clubs over the years:

                            1991 1992 1993 1994 1995
Ajax                          11    1   14   13    3
Barcelona                      6   12    3    4
Bayern Munchen                25  165   56   56    9
Benfica                       24    9   17   14
Boca Juniors                  15   44   77   32
Feyenoord                     31   22   55   25
Gremio                       101 >100  128   32    4
Juventus                      27    6    1    7    2
Liverpool                     23   25  115   50
Manchester United              5   70   19    8
Milan                         32    2    2    3    1
Nacional (Montevideo)         28   66   49  119
Olimpia Asuncion              29   14   26   17
Paris Saint-Germain         >180   32    9    1    6
Parma                         60   15    5    2    5
Penarol                       90  169   59   40
Porto                         20   18   21    6
PSV                           45   41  110  144
Real Madrid                   15    3    7   21
River Plate                   18   49   43   41    8
Sao Paulo                    160   11    4    5
Steaua Bucuresti              64   55   57   73

Sao Paulo were probably the strongest club side of the globe for
two entire years, and struggled to get into the top-5.  Ajax won
the ranking in a year (1992) they didn't even win the national title,
just did well in the UEFA Cup against sides like Genoa and Osasuna.

But they didn't win it in 1995, a year in which their only defeat was
after sudden death extra time in the pretty meaningless Dutch cup (which
gave Feyenoord consistent top-50 ratings, which is the real joke of
the rankings).

Says it all, really.

Cheers,
Karel
--
-- Karel Stokkermans, RISC-Linz, Schloss Hagenberg, Austria, Europa

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Ariel

:Congratulations, you win! Unfortunately the attempt to retrive a .jpg of Sepp
:produced a hard drive failure, but I hope that the alternate prize is to your
:satisfaction.

Disgraceful! On a respectable newsgroup like r.s.s. Now, could you try to
post a .jpg of Joao?

Gustaaf

Ariel

Now, if I were to design my own ranking algorithm, detail it here, and
list the first 100 or so clubs of the world, what would that earn me?

I'd like to be sure it's worth the trouble.

Karel
--
-- Karel Stokkermans, RISC-Linz, Schloss Hagenberg, Austria, Europa

  -- url: http://info.risc.uni-linz.ac.at:70/1/people/kstokker
   -- rsssf: http://info.risc.uni-linz.ac.at:70/0h/misc-info/rsssf/nersssf.html
"O hoe vergeefs / des doelmans hand / zich strekte naar de bal    [  21-6-88,  ]
 die 'een minuut / voor tijd de Duitse / doellijn kruiste..."     [ J. Deelder ]

Just looking at a European ranking, just how does one allow for the fact
that Ajax are clearly no.1, despite the fact that they play in a weaker
league than Milan?

Huw

--
"I want to be young and wild.  Then  

 And then I want to be old and annoy  
 people by pretending I'm deaf."              -= BOING BOING!! =-

The same holds for a world ranking of national teams, imho (continental
rankings over say two or five years could be made with perfect validity).

Anyway, Ariel's promised prize isn't likely to induce me to carry this out.

Some European football magazines ("ESM") use the UEFA coefficients to determine
the strength of a league.  It's as good an approximation as any, but clearly
not really valid; the European performances of clubs four or five years ago
are no real indication for the current strength of a league.  Case in point:
the Dutch league is currently much stronger than the Belgian league; five
years ago, this was different.  This results in the UEFA coefficients being
roughly equal; yet Ajax's (and PSV's) record in the league warrants more
points than if Anderlecht or Brugge would have comparable records in Belgium.

Anyway, who cares, really.  What counts is trophies, not points on some list.

Cheers,
Karel
--
-- Karel Stokkermans, RISC-Linz, Schloss Hagenberg, Austria, Europa

  -- url: http://info.risc.uni-linz.ac.at:70/1/people/kstokker
   -- rsssf: http://info.risc.uni-linz.ac.at:70/0h/misc-info/rsssf/nersssf.html
"O hoe vergeefs / des doelmans hand / zich strekte naar de bal    [  21-6-88,  ]
 die 'een minuut / voor tijd de Duitse / doellijn kruiste..."     [ J. Deelder ]