Now I know, now I definitely know... [R]

Now I know, now I definitely know... [R]

Post by Alasdair Alla » Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:00:00



Quote:
> [...Arsenal comments...]
> Well, bollocks to you, I say. Well, what else can I do? I know for a fact
> I won't be saying much else this season. Would you in my position?

I expected Arsenal to win this years Champions League but the more I see
them I'm starting to doubt Wenger.  Here is why.

Last season, still maintaining the older squad players bought before his
arrival, Wenger was able to make effective use of all of them and to play
three or four different formations and styles depending on the oposition
(and even within one match at times).  This, to me, made him the best
manager that I have ever seen.

I am sure he is still capable of this tactical mastery but now I am not
convinced with his judgement.  He seems to be settling down and favouring a
single tactical plan to use week in/week out.

If anything, he is limiting his options by reducing the flexibility of his
squad with regard to attacking possibilities and I have yet to see Arsenal
use the long ball into space to any sort of effect despite efficiently
using this tactic, among others last season.

Added to this the reluctance to buy a target man to add yet more
flexibility on Direct play and he is severely limiting the way Arsenal,
last season, changed and chopped to ensure their long winning streak was
such a great spectacle to watch.

I may be wrong but, were I a gooner, I would be concerned that Wenger is
human after all and like other managers tends towards a set style of play,
despite being capable of so much more.

--
Alasdair Allan                   |I chose not to choose life,

X-Static's Rangers Webzine       |Scottish Football
http://www.x-static.demon.co.uk/ |

 
 
 

Now I know, now I definitely know... [R]

Post by Paul Gra » Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:00:00



Quote:
> Well, bollocks to you, I say. Well, what else can I do? I know for a fact
> I won't be saying much else this season. Would you in my position?

I know that conceeding goals in the last minutes are devastating but
looking at the whole match Arsenal were very, very lucky to come a way
with a draw.  

Worrying thing is the complete transformation of Kiev, who didn't play
that well in their last match against Lens.  Looking at tonites Kiev,
Arsenal will do well to get anything over in Kiev, Panathinakos will be
tough and a win is expected against Lens.  I fear Lens will struggle at
home against Kiev, away to the Greeks and have it all to do against
Arsenal.

 
 
 

Now I know, now I definitely know... [R]

Post by Markian Jaworsk » Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:00:00

: And then an unmarked Rebrov scored after a hopeful ball into the area
: with 30 seconds to go, it was 1-1, and three points went to one, and the
: away leg got a hundred times harder. And at that point, I realised, that
: there is no such thing as luck where Arsenal are now concerned.

Rebrov is truly a gem.  Plays best under the shadow of Shevchenko.
Whilst Shevchenko storms through parks like a steam train, it usually is
Rebrov who brings home the bacon.

: This is not just some dodgy phase, this is a synopsis of our coming
: season. Now I know, now I definitely know what our season will be. We are
: condemned to a UEFA Cup place and several penalty shoot-out defeats (One
: of which will be v. West Ham, and Wright will strike the winning spot
: kick, though Hartson will still miss, I predict), where the slightest
: hint of a lucky Arsenal win will be immediately floored by scrambled late
: goal or goals, or a stubborn referee, or some hulking bastard Ukrainian
: defender nonchalantly kicking the ball off the line from Overmars with
: four minutes to go.

Having the experience of writing on this newsgroup for a couple of years
I can understand of use of certain language, and its ability to add to
display of emotion from the writer, but the corresponding reference to
a certain nationality in totally unnecessary.  Otherwise a very amusing
post.  

 
 
 

Now I know, now I definitely know... [R]

Post by FBC Houlfo » Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:00:00

[snip]
: goal or goals, or a stubborn referee, or some hulking bastard Ukrainian
: defender nonchalantly kicking the ball off the line from Overmars with
: four minutes to go.

I reckon Luzhnyi, the Kiev right back, is that bloke from the fast show
who says "I'll get my coat".

-Ben

 
 
 

Now I know, now I definitely know... [R]

Post by Andon » Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:00:00

hey look, arsenal are a good team. im a spurs fan, but i still know, after
seeing what arsenal are like over the past one and a half decades, that
arsenal will get better- certainly in the league, maybe not in europe.

the point is, arsenal and man united will not win the champions cup. their
supporters think that because they can thrash some second-rate coventry
side 6-0 one saturday will automatically mean that they will win the CL is
wrong. united are a good side, but euro teams can still *** them silly.
arsenal are better defensively, but can still get undone by the tight,
annoying play that european sides can put together. on their day, english
sides can thrash anyone. look at what united did to brondby last night. the
fact of the matter is that in this country, supporters dont know about a
side and automatically think theyre shit. theyre not. galatasaray got
hammered 3-0 by rosenborg, and theyve got some ok players, like popescu and
hagi, and taffarel. also, we cant play in that european style, and our
players still get intimidated by european crowds.

english teams should try to 'become' a european side for just those games.
otherwise it will just not work.

hey, im a yiddo but i would like arsenal to go quite far 'cos theyre a
london side (not win it of course), but certainly not to go out early on. i
predict a semi-final place for both arsenal and united. i hope to god
united dont win it, cos i hate that ***ing brian kidd...

jesus im talking out of my arse, but i hope some of it is useful.

 
 
 

Now I know, now I definitely know... [R]

Post by Adamsfa » Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:00:00

: And at that point, I realised, that
: there is no such thing as luck where Arsenal are now concerned.

Yes, I think this season has really put the "Lucky Arsenal" tag to
rest.  What's this now?  Two or three last minute equalizers and
the season isn't even three months old.

: This is not just some dodgy phase, this is a synopsis of our coming
: season. Now I know, now I definitely know what our season will be. We are
: condemned to a UEFA Cup place and several penalty shoot-out defeats (One
: of which will be v. West Ham, and Wright will strike the winning spot
: kick, though Hartson will still miss, I predict), where the slightest
: hint of a lucky Arsenal win will be immediately floored by scrambled late
: goal or goals, or a stubborn referee, or some hulking bastard Ukrainian
: defender nonchalantly kicking the ball off the line from Overmars with
: four minutes to go.

I think it's a little too early to be jumping ship Chris.  If we've
learned anything from last season it's that you don't count out an
Arsene Wenger team - especially this early.

Let's wait and see what happens - this team has *far* too much talent to
fold...

 
 
 

Now I know, now I definitely know... [R]

Post by Chris Applegat » Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:00:00



Quote:

> : And then an unmarked Rebrov scored after a hopeful ball into the area
> : with 30 seconds to go, it was 1-1, and three points went to one, and
the
> : away leg got a hundred times harder. And at that point, I realised,
that
> : there is no such thing as luck where Arsenal are now concerned.

> Rebrov is truly a gem.  Plays best under the shadow of Shevchenko.
> Whilst Shevchenko storms through parks like a steam train, it usually
is
> Rebrov who brings home the bacon.

Both were excellent, in fact most of the Kiev side were top class. Most
of my fellow Arsenal fans wanted Shevchenko to come to the club, but I'd
like either after last night's display.

Quote:
> Having the experience of writing on this newsgroup for a couple of
years
> I can understand of use of certain language, and its ability to add to
> display of emotion from the writer, but the corresponding reference to
> a certain nationality in totally unnecessary.

Sorry, I started to get carried away. I'm not trying to make out all
Ukrainians are bastards, my intention was that he was a bastard for
clearing the ball off the line, it's his job of course, but it ***y
annoyed me. I shouldn't have put his nationality in though, again sorry.

Quote:
>  Otherwise a very amusing post.  

Wasn't really meant to be amusing, but what the hell. :-)

--
"The problem with democracy is that every silly bastard gets a vote"
       - Arnold J. Rimmer

Chris Applegate - Remove x from mail address when replying
The Brit Football FAQ: http://SportToday.org/

 
 
 

Now I know, now I definitely know... [R]

Post by Chris Applegat » Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:00:00



Quote:


> > Well, bollocks to you, I say. Well, what else can I do? I know for a
fact
> > I won't be saying much else this season. Would you in my position?
> I know that conceeding goals in the last minutes are devastating but
> looking at the whole match Arsenal were very, very lucky to come a way
> with a draw.  

Oh absolutely, Kiev tore us apart at times, and could have won, but a
lucky Arsenal win looked on the cards (I can't remember our last fluke
win, unless you count the penalties win over West Ham last season), and
after so much bad luck in recent matches, I thought finally the upturn
had begun. Alas no.

It makes for a much more exciting away match to Kiev, though, which can
only be a good thing.

Quote:
> Worrying thing is the complete transformation of Kiev, who didn't play
> that well in their last match against Lens.  Looking at tonites Kiev,
> Arsenal will do well to get anything over in Kiev,

Remember that Arsenal will have Petit and Vieira both back, the midfield
of Garde and Hughes was infinitely less effective, at times they were in
headless chicken mode. No Bergkamp, but Overmars in the centre and Anelka
is touted as the attack, which should be interesting since neither passes
to the other in normal matches.

Quote:
> Panathinakos will be tough and a win is expected against Lens.  I fear

Lens will struggle at

Quote:
> home against Kiev, away to the Greeks and have it all to do against
> Arsenal.

I think, with Arsenal knowing it's their last home match and utterly
essential, will go guns blazing. And after their strong performance in
the away leg, a win would be expected by most.

--
"The problem with democracy is that every silly bastard gets a vote"
       - Arnold J. Rimmer

Chris Applegate - Remove x from mail address when replying
The Brit Football FAQ: http://www.dialsquare.freeserve.co.uk/footfaq.htm

 
 
 

Now I know, now I definitely know... [R]

Post by Chris Applegat » Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:00:00



Quote:

> > [...Arsenal comments...]
> > Well, bollocks to you, I say. Well, what else can I do? I know for a
fact
> > I won't be saying much else this season. Would you in my position?

> I expected Arsenal to win this years Champions League

IIRC you expected Wenger to win the World Cup with Scotland if he had a
chance. :-)

Quote:
> but the more I see
> them I'm starting to doubt Wenger.  Here is why.

> Last season, still maintaining the older squad players bought before
his
> arrival, Wenger was able to make effective use of all of them and to
play
> three or four different formations and styles depending on the
oposition
> (and even within one match at times).  This, to me, made him the best
> manager that I have ever seen.

The reason why Arsenal adopted so many different formations is more to do
with the fact the number of players on the pitch kept on changing so
much. :-)

Generally, Arsenal played 4-4-2 from the start, changing to 4-3-1-2 if
attacking or 3-5-2 to keep things solid. Changing starting formations was
not very frequent. But the flexibility of the formation was the key, with
both Petit and Vieira dropping back if needed, or Adams and Keown
forward, Parlour all over the pitch, Overmars moving from the left to the
centre. It looked like several different ones but it was based on one
framework.

Quote:
> I am sure he is still capable of this tactical mastery but now I am not
> convinced with his judgement.  He seems to be settling down and
favouring a
> single tactical plan to use week in/week out.

Arsenal are still flexible enough, it's just that with the midfield so
deeply weakened it disrupted the whole side v. Kiev. Against Newcastle,
or Southampton, or Man U, or Lens, the same old system worked well.

Quote:
> If anything, he is limiting his options by reducing the flexibility of
his
> squad with regard to attacking possibilities

Wenger mainly concentrated on fullbacks over the summer, buying Grondin
and Vivas, looking to the future. Attacking-wise, he has bought
Ljungberg, who looks both good and versatile, but he is still a bench
player, as well as ineligible for European group matches.

Elsewhere, there are Mendez and Boa Morte as attacking flank players,
neither of whom have shone on their brief first team appearances, despite
steady performances in the reserves.

Quote:
> and I have yet to see Arsenal
> use the long ball into space to any sort of effect despite efficiently
> using this tactic, among others last season.

There was one good chipped ball from Winterburn to Overmars in the whole
Kiev match, an excellent tactic to exploit the latter's pace, used a lot
last season. But Arsenal's lofted-passer-in-chief is Petit, and Bergkamp
didn't take on that role against Kiev like he should have.

Quote:
> Added to this the reluctance to buy a target man to add yet more
> flexibility on Direct play

Indeed. Wreh as the spare striker is not a wonderful option. We have the
money, buy someone!

Quote:
> and he is severely limiting the way Arsenal,
> last season, changed and chopped to ensure their long winning streak
was
> such a great spectacle to watch.

Arsenal have slightly less depth and experience in midfield with the
retirement of Platt, who would have played much better than Garde would
have yesterday. Wright's sale is the only other real robbery of depth,
and his absence is a real blow.

Quote:
> I may be wrong but, were I a gooner, I would be concerned that Wenger
is
> human after all and like other managers tends towards a set style of
play,
> despite being capable of so much more.

I'm more worried that we haven't the staff to cope with the system when a
few key personnel go missing. We have one spare centre midfielder in
Hughes, and he can't be relied on to close down and tackle like Vieira or
Petit can.

--
"The problem with democracy is that every silly bastard gets a vote"
       - Arnold J. Rimmer

Chris Applegate - Remove x from mail address when replying
The Brit Football FAQ: http://www.dialsquare.freeserve.co.uk/footfaq.htm

 
 
 

Now I know, now I definitely know... [R]

Post by RED-DEV » Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:00:00

Quote:


>: And at that point, I realised, that
>: there is no such thing as luck where Arsenal are now concerned.
>Yes, I think this season has really put the "Lucky Arsenal" tag to
>rest.  What's this now?  Two or three last minute equalizers and
>the season isn't even three months old.
>: This is not just some dodgy phase, this is a synopsis of our coming
>: season. Now I know, now I definitely know what our season will be. We are
>: condemned to a UEFA Cup place and several penalty shoot-out defeats (One
>: of which will be v. West Ham, and Wright will strike the winning spot
>: kick, though Hartson will still miss, I predict), where the slightest
>: hint of a lucky Arsenal win will be immediately floored by scrambled late
>: goal or goals, or a stubborn referee, or some hulking bastard Ukrainian
>: defender nonchalantly kicking the ball off the line from Overmars with
>: four minutes to go.
>I think it's a little too early to be jumping ship Chris.  If we've
>learned anything from last season it's that you don't count out an
>Arsene Wenger team - especially this early.
>Let's wait and see what happens - this team has *far* too much talent to
>fold...

Maybe Man United will have another serious injury crisis at the end of
the season and let em in again.

"What matters above all things is that the game should be played in
the right spirit, with the upmost courage, with fair play and no
favour, with every man playing as a member of his team without
bitterness and conceit"

Sir Matt Busby