Sport Today

The winner of any world cup is always lauded as the 'world champions' but
how often has the team that is at the time acknowledged as the world's best
won the world cup? Surely being 'world champions' is not always the same as
being the world's best team.
If this is a dumb question then i apologise.I am self admittedly not overly
knowledgeable about football.

You surely are right, the best way to determine the best team is a
league, not a cup.
But missing the proofs, we may only go with opinions.
There are usually more teams that claim to be the best, so, it0's may
be easier to wonder "when a team that won is not considered one of the
best of that WC?"
Honestly I wouldn't know what team to pick.

Goldmund -
on Usenet since 1997

Most people will concur that the Dutch team of the 70's were undoubtedly the
greatest team of that time even though they failed to win the WC, getting beaten
in the final twice.
The French team of the early to mid 80's was superb also, though they never made
it past the WC semi-finals.
Brazil in 1982 was a fantastic Brazilian team, one of the best Brazilian teams
ever, yet they didn't make it past the 2nd round/QFs.

Oh, and the great Hungarian team of the 50's were defintely considered to be
head and shoulders above the rest, they lost the 1954 final to Germany under
controversial circumstances.

MMcC

What people tend to forget about that Brazilian team of 1982
was that their main striker was also very poor - Serginho.
I never understood how he made it into that team.

It's kind of difficult to know, really, because all the teams don't play each
other except at the World Cup.  Sure, there is the European Championship, or
the Copa America, etc. but there's no way to know how those teams fare against
each other.  Most other games are basically scrimmages.  Injuries play a big
part.  In a sense, the WC defines who is acknowledged as the world's best
team, unless a team gets upset by another team that has a singular awesome
performance (and I haven't seen that happen yet.)

Yes, it was an awesome match, worthy of a good final.

West Germany was pretty ***ing good though. AT WORST, the second best team in
the world.

Holland were the best, though not as good as 1974 (no Cruyff).

The Italians were excellent, though.

Brazil was IMO easily better than anyone except possibly Argentina, pre-Maradona
bust.  Their defense and midfield were virtually impenetrable.  Holland weren't
nearly as talented as '90 or '98 and really only played well against Brazil.
Italy was Baggio and 10 passengers.

Definitely.

Yeas, and they confirmed it 2 years later in HOLLAND against Italy.

yes, but england also was great, brasil too, and what about Croatia and
italia and sososososossosososo.

There is only one final and in 98 was Brasil france.

I got to watch that one in a sports bar with about 20
Brazilian fans in yellow, about 12 Holland fans in
orange, and an assorted crowd of locals (near San
Jose, CA).  Incredible energy.  I was rooting for
Holland to get their chance.  Oh well...

Tomcat

Not very often.

"Lee Harris"

Best is a matter of timing, and at the time not many dispute the winners are
the best, however favorites are another thing altogether...

Germany was hailed as the favorite, as was Italy.

Yes, favored and won it.

Germany and Brazil were favored.

and favored.

Holland and Germany favored.

Argentina favored.

Brazil favored, then Germany.

Argentina favored.

Italy and Germany favored. Italy the best team.

Brazil and Germany favored.

Brazil favored.

2002 - France, Argentina and Italy favored.

Therefore favorites rarely win...

Both Brazil and Germany will obviously be favored for the next cup

This may not answer the question fully, but it is interesting
nonetheless. For a shorter summary, read the accompanying post.

Here are the top five teams (pre-World Cup) according to the AQB
ratings and world cup semi-finalists, and how they fared (DNE=did not
enter, DNQ=did not qualify):

1930        Pre-tournament  Finished    Post-Tournament
Scotland     1199.66   1st     DNE
Argentina    1188.98   2nd    2nd        1189.52   2nd
Spain        1188.28   3rd     DNE
England      1167.83   4th     DNE  
Austria      1156.48   5th     DNE
Uruguay      1134.51   7th    1st        1173.64   4th
USA          1026.17  20th    3rd=       1026.17  16th
Yugoslavia    985.97  35th    3rd=       1015.68  23rd

1934        Pre-tournament  Finished    Post-Tournament
Austria      1224.38   1st    4th       1194.97   2nd
Argentina    1205.29   2nd     R1       1174.31   4th
Italy        1191.14   3rd    1st       1239.81   1st
Spain        1176.81   4th     QF       1183.42   3rd    
England      1153.51   5th     DNE
Czechoslov.  1138.74   6th    2nd       1164.91   5th
Germany      1078.25  12th    3rd       1116.25   7th

1938        Pre-tournament  Finished    Post-Tournament
Italy        1262.60   1st    1st       1299.22   1st
Argentina    1219.89   2nd     DNE
Scotland     1202.01   3rd     DNE
England      1169.56   4th     DNE    
Spain        1146.66   5th     DNE
Hungary      1142.85   6th    2nd       1158.52   5th
Brazil       1111.26  11th    3rd       1135.41   8th
Sweden        948.41  47th    4th        954.21  45th

1950        Pre-tournament  Finished    Post-Tournament
England      1263.38   1st     R1       1202.27   2nd
Argentina    1250.31   2nd     DNE
Italy        1189.98   3rd     R1       1186.45   3rd
Brazil       1173.30   4th    2nd       1185.67   4th
Hungary      1169.89   5th     DNE
Sweden       1148.38   7th    3rd       1147.92   8th
Spain        1109.91  12th    4th       1119.64  12th
Uruguay      1055.68  18th    1st       1130.72  13th

1954        Pre-tournament  Finished    Post-Tournament
Hungary      1331.03   1st    2nd       1331.99   1st
Argentina    1281.76   2nd     DNE
Yugoslavia   1212.72   3rd     QF       1194.03   5th
England      1207.87   4th     QF       1189.11   6th
Brazil       1203.12   5th     QF       1205.22   4th
W.Germany    1144.76   8th    1st       1231.72   3rd
Uruguay      1129.89   9th    4th       1151.46   7th
Austria      1083.63  17th    3rd       1144.22   9th

1958        Pre-tournament  Finished    Post-Tournament
Argentina    1232.40   1st     R1       1193.41   3rd
Hungary      1219.94   2nd     R1       1172.03   5th
England      1211.80   3rd     R1       1184.63   4th
Brazil       1205.19   4th    1st       1277.45   1st
USSR         1195.89   5th     QF       1195.11   2nd
W.Germany    1122.11  15th    4th       1122.73  14th
France       1102.25  16th    3rd       1146.95   9th
Sweden       1094.20  19th    2nd       1145.15  11th

1962        Pre-tournament  Finished    Post-Tournament
Brazil       1296.13   1st    1st       1347.81   1st
USSR         1277.71   2nd     QF       1264.69   2nd
Yugoslavia   1250.68   3rd    4th       1214.33   4th
Spain        1212.20   4th     R1       1191.46   6th
Argentina    1204.61   5th     R1       1200.98   5th
Czechosl.    1202.42   6th    4th       1229.09   3rd
Chile        1038.65  27th    3rd       1104.13  19th

1966        Pre-tournament  Finished    Post-Tournament
England      1276.21   1st    1st       1318.12   1st
Hungary      1263.89   2nd     QF       1253.81   5th
Brazil       1257.83   3rd     R1       1228.51   6th
USSR         1249.59   4th    4th       1257.56   3rd
Italy        1245.75   5th     R1       1203.46   8th
W.Germany    1208.79   7th    2nd       1256.26   4th
Portugal     1190.57   8th    3rd       1269.44   2nd

1970        Pre-tournament  Finished    Post-Tournament
Italy        1279.89   1st    2nd       1291.60   2nd
England      1267.18   2nd     QF       1248.93   4th
USSR         1241.42   3rd     QF       1222.05   5th
Brazil       1228.51   4th    1st       1321.77   1st
W.Germany    1225.28   5th    3rd       1275.03   3rd
Uruguay      1118.11  14th    4th       1127.38  13th

1974        Pre-tournament  Finished    Post-Tournament
E.Germany    1298.28   1st     R2       1267.00   3rd
W.Germany    1274.72   2nd    1st       1318.14   1st
Brazil       1260.30   3rd    4th       1255.42   5th
Italy        1259.28   4th     R1       1237.54   7th
England      1244.10   5th    DNQ
Poland       1238.46   6th    3rd       1311.53   2nd
Netherlands  1174.01  12th    2nd       1262.18   4th

1978        Pre-tournament  Finished    Post-Tournament
Brazil       1322.82   1st    3rd       1356.83   1st
Netherlands  1311.21   2nd    2nd       1294.79   2nd
W.Germany    1291.46   3rd     R2       1257.58   6th
E.Germany    1268.18   4th    DNQ
USSR         1267.80   5th    DNQ
Argentina    1237.88   9th    1st       1289.24   3rd
Italy        1195.37  13th    4th       1250.63   7th

1982        Pre-tournament  Finished    Post-Tournament
W.Germany    1327.18   1st    2nd       1299.06   3rd
USSR         1324.93   2nd     R2       1308.91   2nd
Brazil       1315.77   3rd     R2       1329.62   1st
Argentina    1269.12   4th     R2       1224.91   8th
Austria      1240.47   5th     R2       1215.28  10th
Poland       1219.92  10th    3rd       1247.74   6th
Italy        1182.59  12th    1st       1277.32   4th
France       1137.48  23rd    4th       1178.04  13th

1986        Pre-tournament  Finished    Post-Tournament
France       1301.68   1st    3rd       1309.46   1st
England      1301.39   2nd     QF       1265.91   4th
Hungary      1242.65   3rd     R1       1214.34  10th
W.Germany    1239.66   4th    2nd       1251.91   6th
Spain        1238.99   5th     QF       1258.36   5th
Argentina    1178.17  19th    1st       1284.46   3rd
Belgium      1135.50  28th    4th       1152.52  25th

1990        Pre-tournament  Finished    Post-Tournament
Brazil       1309.52   1st     R2       1302.56   3rd
W.Germany    1302.45   2nd    1st       1346.71   1st
England      1274.17   3rd    4th       1291.91   4th
Netherlands  1270.22   4th     R2       1242.80   7th
France       1268.33   5th    DNQ
Italy        1267.53   6th    3rd       1322.23   2nd
Argentina    1142.68  29th    2nd       1186.28  17th

1994        Pre-tournament  Finished    Post-Tournament
Germany      1301.07   1st     QF       1290.05   3rd
Italy        1284.97   2nd    2nd       1322.18   2nd
Brazil       1279.24   3rd    1st       1330.76   1st
Colombia     1271.00   4th     R1       1239.95   9th
France       1265.02   5th    DNQ
Sweden       1220.50  10th    3rd       1246.22   6th
Bulgaria     1132.13  26th    4th       1163.41  21st

1998        Pre-tournament  Finished    Post-Tournament
Brazil       1380.69   1st    2nd       1356.14   2nd
Germany      1340.04   2nd     QF       1331.18   3rd
France       1316.88   3rd    1st       1358.76   1st
Spain        1313.09   4th     R1       1282.36   8th
Argentina    1299.93   5th     QF       1301.59   6th
Netherlands  1279.03   7th    4th       1303.21   5th
Croatia      1212.65  12th    3rd       1281.52   9th

2002*       Pre-tournament  Finished
Argentina    1367.15   1st     R1
France       1333.49   2nd     R1
Netherlands  1331.64   3rd     DNQ
Italy        1292.03   4th     R2
Spain        1273.21   5th     QF
Brazil       1252.35   7th     ?
Germany      1225.79  14th     ?
South Korea  1161.14  30th    4th
Turkey       1128.41  39th    3rd

Regards,
Myk Cameron