[BL] Biggest turnaround ever?

[BL] Biggest turnaround ever?

Post by Sven Mischki » Mon, 21 May 2007 00:29:02


In february the season record of HSV read like that
(wins-draws-defeats):

Cup:    1 - 0 - 1
CL(Q):  1 - 2 - 5
League: 1 - 12 - 7
Total:  3 - 14 - 13

Unsurprisingly we were dead last in the table, with a record that before
this season always led to relegation.

And not only did we have a bad record, we were also to face the then
leading 2 teams away from home in our next 3 games.

We beat them. :)

Our record of the last 14 games:

        9 - 3 - 2
Total:  10 - 15 - 9

We are not dead last anymore. Instead we now play international
football. :))

Question: Are there any other occurrences when a team hopelessly
lingering on relegation spots in the second half of the season managed a
turnaround and qualified for Europe? Which comparable turnarounds are
there?

Ciao,
        SM
--
http://www.gourockviews.co.uk
I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it
does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously.
Douglas Adams

 
 
 

[BL] Biggest turnaround ever?

Post by 7 » Mon, 21 May 2007 04:30:06


Quote:
> CL(Q):  1 - 2 - 5

Sure helped keeping BM away from the ECL.

 
 
 

[BL] Biggest turnaround ever?

Post by Bruce Scott TO » Wed, 23 May 2007 00:29:13

Quote:


>> CL(Q):  1 - 2 - 5

>Sure helped keeping BM away from the ECL.

That's not it actually.  HSV did a lot against us also when we won the
double twice running.  It is all the lost points against bottom teams
that really did it to us this year.  In a normal championship year (or
when we fail closely) one or two teams will be found to have at least 4
points off us (like when 1860 and Stuttgart both beat us both ways and
we were still champions with only 5 or 6 losses).  But this season it
has been the constant dribbling with bad performances in the league
against the bottom half, and often against the bottom team.

--
ciao,
Bruce

drift wave turbulence:  http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/

 
 
 

[BL] Biggest turnaround ever?

Post by 7 » Wed, 23 May 2007 01:43:25

On May 21, 8:29 am, Bruce Scott TOK <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-

Quote:



> >> CL(Q):  1 - 2 - 5

> >Sure helped keeping BM away from the ECL.

> That's not it actually.  HSV did a lot against us also when we won the
> double twice running.  It is all the lost points against bottom teams
> that really did it to us this year.  In a normal championship year (or
> when we fail closely) one or two teams will be found to have at least 4
> points off us (like when 1860 and Stuttgart both beat us both ways and
> we were still champions with only 5 or 6 losses).  But this season it
> has been the constant dribbling with bad performances in the league
> against the bottom half, and often against the bottom team.

Oh Bruce...

That was a tongue in cheek comment regarding the fact that HSV
contributed abysmally to Germany's coefficient.

 
 
 

[BL] Biggest turnaround ever?

Post by Bruce Scott TO » Wed, 23 May 2007 23:32:13

Quote:

>> >Sure helped keeping BM away from the ECL.
>Oh Bruce...

>That was a tongue in cheek comment regarding the fact that HSV
>contributed abysmally to Germany's coefficient.

Oh right, I totally misunderstood then (forgot about HSV's Eurocup
performance)!

--
ciao,
Bruce

drift wave turbulence:  http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/

 
 
 

[BL] Biggest turnaround ever?

Post by alkami.. » Thu, 24 May 2007 09:06:50



Quote:
> In february the season record of HSV read like that
> (wins-draws-defeats):

> Cup:    1 - 0 - 1
> CL(Q):  1 - 2 - 5
> League: 1 - 12 - 7
> Total:  3 - 14 - 13

> Unsurprisingly we were dead last in the table, with a record that before
> this season always led to relegation.

> And not only did we have a bad record, we were also to face the then
> leading 2 teams away from home in our next 3 games.

> We beat them. :)

> Our record of the last 14 games:

>         9 - 3 - 2
> Total:  10 - 15 - 9

> We are not dead last anymore. Instead we now play international
> football. :))

> Question: Are there any other occurrences when a team hopelessly
> lingering on relegation spots in the second half of the season managed a
> turnaround and qualified for Europe? Which comparable turnarounds are
> there?

Too lazy to dig up the numbers right now, but in the 84/85 season
Liverpool were third from the bottom in November (IIRC), and then
mounted a surge to actually push Everton for the title before
finishing in second place.
 
 
 

[BL] Biggest turnaround ever?

Post by MH » Fri, 25 May 2007 00:22:36

Quote:



>>In february the season record of HSV read like that
>>(wins-draws-defeats):

>>Cup:    1 - 0 - 1
>>CL(Q):  1 - 2 - 5
>>League: 1 - 12 - 7
>>Total:  3 - 14 - 13

>>Unsurprisingly we were dead last in the table, with a record that before
>>this season always led to relegation.

>>And not only did we have a bad record, we were also to face the then
>>leading 2 teams away from home in our next 3 games.

>>We beat them. :)

>>Our record of the last 14 games:

>>        9 - 3 - 2
>>Total:  10 - 15 - 9

>>We are not dead last anymore. Instead we now play international
>>football. :))

>>Question: Are there any other occurrences when a team hopelessly
>>lingering on relegation spots in the second half of the season managed a
>>turnaround and qualified for Europe? Which comparable turnarounds are
>>there?

> Too lazy to dig up the numbers right now, but in the 84/85 season
> Liverpool were third from the bottom in November (IIRC),

Beginning of November, I think.
By the halfway point they were 10th and only 9 points behind Spurs and
Everton. They finished 2nd, 13 points behind Everton.

In the context of the other thread about fixture congestion, Everton
played 63 games that year, and I remember they used an incredibly small
number of players and a stable lineup, with Adrian Heath being the only
serious injury problem they had.

  and then

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> mounted a surge to actually push Everton for the title before
> finishing in second place.

 
 
 

[BL] Biggest turnaround ever?

Post by Sven Mischki » Fri, 25 May 2007 02:22:50

Quote:

> In the context of the other thread about fixture congestion, Everton
> played 63 games that year, and I remember they used an incredibly small
> number of players and a stable lineup, with Adrian Heath being the only
> serious injury problem they had.

Check out Aston Villa in their EC winning season - 63 games, 13 players
IIRC.

Ciao,  
        SM
--
http://www.gourockviews.co.uk
I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it
does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously.
Douglas Adams

 
 
 

[BL] Biggest turnaround ever?

Post by alkami.. » Fri, 25 May 2007 23:38:33


Quote:



> >>In february the season record of HSV read like that
> >>(wins-draws-defeats):

> >>Cup:    1 - 0 - 1
> >>CL(Q):  1 - 2 - 5
> >>League: 1 - 12 - 7
> >>Total:  3 - 14 - 13

> >>Unsurprisingly we were dead last in the table, with a record that before
> >>this season always led to relegation.

> >>And not only did we have a bad record, we were also to face the then
> >>leading 2 teams away from home in our next 3 games.

> >>We beat them. :)

> >>Our record of the last 14 games:

> >>        9 - 3 - 2
> >>Total:  10 - 15 - 9

> >>We are not dead last anymore. Instead we now play international
> >>football. :))

> >>Question: Are there any other occurrences when a team hopelessly
> >>lingering on relegation spots in the second half of the season managed a
> >>turnaround and qualified for Europe? Which comparable turnarounds are
> >>there?

> > Too lazy to dig up the numbers right now, but in the 84/85 season
> > Liverpool were third from the bottom in November (IIRC),

> Beginning of November, I think.
> By the halfway point they were 10th and only 9 points behind Spurs and
> Everton. They finished 2nd, 13 points behind Everton.

Which reminds me, Liverpool had won the League and EC just the year
prior, but had then lost Souness to Sampdoria in the offseason, which
consequently had totally devastated their midfield. They were lost for
a while and it wasn't until the emergence of the Great Dane Jan Molby,
and to some degree Steve McMahon, that they got their steel in
midfield and overall balance back.

What are some other striking examples of the effect the loss of one
player can have on a team?

 
 
 

[BL] Biggest turnaround ever?

Post by PB » Sat, 26 May 2007 01:25:41


Quote:
> Liverpool had won the League and EC just the year
> prior, but had then lost Souness to Sampdoria in the offseason ...

... and the following year, Liverpool earned almost as many points (77
instead of 80) and reached the European Cup final. The year after
that, Liverpool won the league with 88 points.

Souness was obviously a fine player, but I wouldn't consider him a
devastating loss. When he left Liverpool, he was already in his 30s,
and his departure clearly didn't make a dramatic contribution to the
team's gradual decline. It's certainly nothing to compare with
Blackburn losing Alan Shearer, for example.

P

 
 
 

[BL] Biggest turnaround ever?

Post by Jesus Petr » Sat, 26 May 2007 01:44:23


Quote:
> What are some other striking examples of the effect the loss of one
> player can have on a team?

 We losing Fabiano Eller.

 Tchau!
 Jesus Petry

 
 
 

[BL] Biggest turnaround ever?

Post by alkami.. » Sat, 26 May 2007 02:27:56


Quote:

> > Liverpool had won the League and EC just the year
> > prior, but had then lost Souness to Sampdoria in the offseason ...

> ... and the following year, Liverpool earned almost as many points (77
> instead of 80) and reached the European Cup final. The year after
> that, Liverpool won the league with 88 points.

> Souness was obviously a fine player, but I wouldn't consider him a
> devastating loss. When he left Liverpool, he was already in his 30s,
> and his departure clearly didn't make a dramatic contribution to the
> team's gradual decline. It's certainly nothing to compare with
> Blackburn losing Alan Shearer, for example.

> P

We are talking in different contexts.....I meant more short term,
while u are talking more long term.
A team going from winning its league and the European Cup to being in
the relegation zone a few months later qualifies as a pretty drastic
change IMO. Souness may not have been young, but Liverpool clearly
underestimated their dependence on his grit and leadership in
midfield. Of course it was inevitable that a club of their resources
and pedigree would eventually replace him, but in the short term they
were quite unsettled by his loss.
Blackburn losing Shearer is another scale entirely. We are talking
about a small club losing its once-in-a-lifetime kind of player.
Similar to Napoli and Maradona.
 
 
 

[BL] Biggest turnaround ever?

Post by MH » Sat, 26 May 2007 03:13:18

Quote:





>>>>In february the season record of HSV read like that
>>>>(wins-draws-defeats):

>>>>Cup:    1 - 0 - 1
>>>>CL(Q):  1 - 2 - 5
>>>>League: 1 - 12 - 7
>>>>Total:  3 - 14 - 13

>>>>Unsurprisingly we were dead last in the table, with a record that before
>>>>this season always led to relegation.

>>>>And not only did we have a bad record, we were also to face the then
>>>>leading 2 teams away from home in our next 3 games.

>>>>We beat them. :)

>>>>Our record of the last 14 games:

>>>>       9 - 3 - 2
>>>>Total:  10 - 15 - 9

>>>>We are not dead last anymore. Instead we now play international
>>>>football. :))

>>>>Question: Are there any other occurrences when a team hopelessly
>>>>lingering on relegation spots in the second half of the season managed a
>>>>turnaround and qualified for Europe? Which comparable turnarounds are
>>>>there?

>>>Too lazy to dig up the numbers right now, but in the 84/85 season
>>>Liverpool were third from the bottom in November (IIRC),

>>Beginning of November, I think.
>>By the halfway point they were 10th and only 9 points behind Spurs and
>>Everton. They finished 2nd, 13 points behind Everton.

> Which reminds me, Liverpool had won the League and EC just the year
> prior, but had then lost Souness to Sampdoria in the offseason, which
> consequently had totally devastated their midfield.

I am not sure that is completely accurate. They had an improving Nicol
and had signed John Wark (who scored a lot of goals that year).  Their
slump at the beginning of 1984-85 is probably at least as much due to a
two month injury to Ian Rush and a dip in Dalgish's form as the loss of
Souness. Never understood why they didn't put Lawrenson in midfield though.

They were lost for

Quote:
> a while and it wasn't until the emergence of the Great Dane Jan Molby,
> and to some degree Steve McMahon, that they got their steel in
> midfield and overall balance back.

They won the double in 1985-86, but had M?lby by then.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> What are some other striking examples of the effect the loss of one
> player can have on a team?