PSG v Barca R

PSG v Barca R

Post by Sven Mischki » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 21:54:07


Quote:

> PSG played well and deserved to win. Sanchez won a penalty with a dive, and
> PSG were able to comeback and score.

Well.

- PSG did play well, IMHO, but not good enough to win. To win you need
to take your chances, and to play them out well. PSG too often didn't,
mostly because of a bad touch or decision making by Ibra. Haven't seen
so many promising attacks against Barca in ages, shame they got wasted
so often.

- It was no dive for the pen, just the usual provocation and the keeper
fell for it.

- Overall the result is OK, IMHO. PSG was always dangerous, so deserved
something from the game, even though they were a bit fortunate to get a
draw

- Barca need to sort out their goalkeeping problems, the second PSG goal
was another gift by Valdes. He already cost them last year.

Ciao,
        SM
--
Avoid Santander, the magic bank that makes money disappear.

 
 
 

PSG v Barca R

Post by Sven Mischki » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 22:05:16

Quote:

> They said they would clamp down on dives, but nothing has changed since
> then.

Aye.

Quote:
> > and that one was much clearer a dive than this one by
> > Sanchez - Totti was already halfway down when contact was made.

> But the intent is the same, the player is already going down before being
> fouled.

That is clear in Totti's case, but not so clear in Sanchez'. Sanchez
still gets his (grabbed) foot on the ground and manages a nice jump to
embellish the foul, so without the grab he could have run on (if he
wanted too - I have my doubts, of course :)).

Quote:
> Sanchez should have been given a yellow card for simulation, like Totti was
> given a yellow card.

> It's amazing that 13 years later nothing has changed.

:(

Ciao,
        SM
--
Avoid Santander, the magic bank that makes money disappear.

 
 
 

PSG v Barca R

Post by Diaboli » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 22:09:54


Quote:



>> > On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 07:54:04 +1100, Google Beta User


>> >> I didn't watch the game, but seeing as how Barcelona didn't win, I
>> >> take
>> >> it then that only one team "tried to play football"? Probably PSG were
>> >> "cowardly"? And I'm sure there were no controversial referee
>> >> decisions.

>> > There was a controversial refereeing decision, Ibra was a mile offside
>> > on
>> > his tap in. Other than that, he was atrocious for a guy who's earning
>> > 20m
>> > a year.

>> LOL, he scored a goal and made the assist for the 2nd goal. How is that
>> atrocious???

> Didn't you think that he was quite 'unfortunate' in most of his actions?
> How many breaks did he waste, how many chances?

He was, but a player that doesn't play to his standards, and still scores a
goal and makes the assist for another goal, has played well enough for me.

Quote:

> IMHO he didn't have a good game at all, too many lost balls, too many
> bad first touches. The only shots he took well were in offside positions
> (one counted). He also had some nice passes, but overall I'd have
> expected more from a player of his calibre.

Even though he didn't play well for his standards, he holds the ball up well
and gives depth to the team, that is a lot from a player.

 
 
 

PSG v Barca R

Post by Diaboli » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 22:13:06


Quote:

>> PSG played well and deserved to win. Sanchez won a penalty with a dive,
>> and
>> PSG were able to comeback and score.

> Well.

> - PSG did play well, IMHO, but not good enough to win. To win you need
> to take your chances, and to play them out well. PSG too often didn't,
> mostly because of a bad touch or decision making by Ibra. Haven't seen
> so many promising attacks against Barca in ages, shame they got wasted
> so often.

They didn't take their chances, but they played well.

Quote:
> - It was no dive for the pen, just the usual provocation and the keeper
> fell for it.

If you notice, he's going down before contact (like Totti did), so for me
it's a dive.

If player dives before contact, why should he be given a peanlty?

Quote:
> - Overall the result is OK, IMHO. PSG was always dangerous, so deserved
> something from the game, even though they were a bit fortunate to get a
> draw

You could say Barca were also fortunate to get a penatly, so the draw is
probably the fairest result. PSH didn't deserve to lose.
Quote:
> - Barca need to sort out their goalkeeping problems, the second PSG goal
> was another gift by Valdes. He already cost them last year.

 
 
 

PSG v Barca R

Post by Abubak » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 22:21:08

Quote:






>>> > On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 07:54:04 +1100, Google Beta User >  


>>> >> I didn't watch the game, but seeing as how Barcelona didn't win, I  
>>> >> take
>>> >> it then that only one team "tried to play football"? Probably PSG  
>>> were
>>> >> "cowardly"? And I'm sure there were no controversial referee >>  
>>> decisions.

>>> > There was a controversial refereeing decision, Ibra was a mile  
>>> offside > on
>>> > his tap in. Other than that, he was atrocious for a guy who's  
>>> earning > 20m
>>> > a year.

>>> LOL, he scored a goal and made the assist for the 2nd goal. How is that
>>> atrocious???

>> Didn't you think that he was quite 'unfortunate' in most of his actions?
>> How many breaks did he waste, how many chances?

> He was, but a player that doesn't play to his standards, and still  
> scores a goal and makes the assist for another goal, has played well  
> enough for me.

You have very low standards.

Quote:
>> IMHO he didn't have a good game at all, too many lost balls, too many
>> bad first touches. The only shots he took well were in offside positions
>> (one counted). He also had some nice passes, but overall I'd have
>> expected more from a player of his calibre.

> Even though he didn't play well for his standards, he holds the ball up  
> well and gives depth to the team, that is a lot from a player.

He was terrible, just give it up.
 
 
 

PSG v Barca R

Post by Sven Mischki » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 22:55:14

Quote:

> Quoting Sven Mischkies in rec.sport.soccer:

> >- It was no dive for the pen, just the usual provocation and the keeper
> >fell for it.

> What do you guys think about the sit where Nani was blatantly kicked in the
> lower leg inside the penalty area against Chelsea in the FA cup? I've
> waited patiently for ANYONE to bring it up. Be it ABU:s (bwahahaha!) or MU
> fans...

The problem there is probably that very few people saw the game. I
didn't. I almost never watch the F*c*up.

Ciao,
        SM
--
Avoid Santander, the magic bank that makes money disappear.

 
 
 

PSG v Barca R

Post by Diaboli » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 23:17:05


Quote:






>>>> > On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 07:54:04 +1100, Google Beta User >


>>>> >> I didn't watch the game, but seeing as how Barcelona didn't win, I
>>>> >> take
>>>> >> it then that only one team "tried to play football"? Probably PSG
>>>> were
>>>> >> "cowardly"? And I'm sure there were no controversial referee >>
>>>> decisions.

>>>> > There was a controversial refereeing decision, Ibra was a mile
>>>> offside > on
>>>> > his tap in. Other than that, he was atrocious for a guy who's
>>>> earning > 20m
>>>> > a year.

>>>> LOL, he scored a goal and made the assist for the 2nd goal. How is that
>>>> atrocious???

>>> Didn't you think that he was quite 'unfortunate' in most of his actions?
>>> How many breaks did he waste, how many chances?

>> He was, but a player that doesn't play to his standards, and still
>> scores a goal and makes the assist for another goal, has played well
>> enough for me.

> You have very low standards.

>>> IMHO he didn't have a good game at all, too many lost balls, too many
>>> bad first touches. The only shots he took well were in offside positions
>>> (one counted). He also had some nice passes, but overall I'd have
>>> expected more from a player of his calibre.

>> Even though he didn't play well for his standards, he holds the ball up
>> well and gives depth to the team, that is a lot from a player.

> He was terrible, just give it up.

Terrible or not, he scored a goal and provided the assist for the 2nd goal.

I'm not sure if anyone could ask for more from a player.

 
 
 

PSG v Barca R

Post by Diaboli » Thu, 04 Apr 2013 23:17:39


Quote:
> Quoting Sven Mischkies in rec.sport.soccer:

>>- It was no dive for the pen, just the usual provocation and the keeper
>>fell for it.

> What do you guys think about the sit where Nani was blatantly kicked in
> the
> lower leg inside the penalty area against Chelsea in the FA cup? I've
> waited patiently for ANYONE to bring it up. Be it ABU:s (bwahahaha!) or MU
> fans...

Didn't watch it.
 
 
 

PSG v Barca R

Post by Bruce D. Scot » Fri, 05 Apr 2013 01:11:02


|> I didn't watch the game, but seeing as how Barcelona didn't win, I take it then that only one team "tried to play football"? Probably PSG were "cowardly"? And I'm sure there were no controversial referee decisions.

Ibra's goal was _really_ offside

--
ciao,
Bruce

drift wave turbulence:  http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/

 
 
 

PSG v Barca R

Post by Diaboli » Fri, 05 Apr 2013 06:13:01


Quote:
> "Sven Mischkies"  escreveu:
>> It's a funny one. Sanchez only wants the pen, but Sirigu grabs him quite
>> clearly. Sirigu made it too easy to give the pen, he shouldn't come out
>> that forcefully.

> This.

> People seem to forget that it can be a dive *and* a foul.

I don't think so, because the dive *creates* the foul, so for me it can only
be a dive.
 
 
 

PSG v Barca R

Post by Clémen » Fri, 05 Apr 2013 06:37:25

"Diabolik"  escreveu:

Quote:

>> "Sven Mischkies"  escreveu:
>>> It's a funny one. Sanchez only wants the pen, but Sirigu grabs him quite
>>> clearly. Sirigu made it too easy to give the pen, he shouldn't come out
>>> that forcefully.

>> This.

>> People seem to forget that it can be a dive *and* a foul.

> I don't think so, because the dive *creates* the foul,

Not necessarily. Sometimes there is a foul, but the fouled player chooses to
dive or embellish the fall to get a call, instead of trying to keep up with
the play. So it's possible to have a foul and a dive in the same play.

Quote:
> so for me it can only be a dive.

I'd be willing to agree that the Sanchez penalty against PSG is debatable.
It's a split second matter, and not a clear cut situation. Sirigu could have
been smarter on the play. The decision to award a penalty, while debatable,
is easily justifiable.

The only 100% sure refereeing mistake leading to a goal in this game was
Ibrahimovic's offside position in the first equalizer.

Abra?o,

Luiz Mello

 
 
 

PSG v Barca R

Post by Diaboli » Fri, 05 Apr 2013 07:23:47


Quote:
> "Diabolik"  escreveu:

>>> "Sven Mischkies"  escreveu:
>>>> It's a funny one. Sanchez only wants the pen, but Sirigu grabs him
>>>> quite
>>>> clearly. Sirigu made it too easy to give the pen, he shouldn't come out
>>>> that forcefully.

>>> This.

>>> People seem to forget that it can be a dive *and* a foul.

>> I don't think so, because the dive *creates* the foul,

> Not necessarily. Sometimes there is a foul, but the fouled player chooses
> to dive or embellish the fall to get a call, instead of trying to keep up
> with the play. So it's possible to have a foul and a dive in the same
> play.

That's fair enough if the player embellishs the fall , but in this case,
even though it's hard for the ref to see, Sanchez was diving *before*
contact, so I think it shouldn't be a penalty, but a yellow card for
simulation.

Quote:

>> so for me it can only be a dive.

> I'd be willing to agree that the Sanchez penalty against PSG is debatable.
> It's a split second matter, and not a clear cut situation. Sirigu could
> have been smarter on the play.

Sirigu could have been smarter, but like you suggest, it's a split sec
decision. He tried to go for the ball.

Quote:
> The decision to award a penalty, while debatable, is easily justifiable.

I don't think so, because Sanchez didn't just embellish the fall, he started
to fall before contact was even made.

Quote:
> The only 100% sure refereeing mistake leading to a goal in this game was
> Ibrahimovic's offside position in the first equalizer.

For sure!
 
 
 

PSG v Barca R

Post by MH » Fri, 05 Apr 2013 07:39:53


Quote:
> "Diabolik"  escreveu:

>>> "Sven Mischkies"  escreveu:
>>>> It's a funny one. Sanchez only wants the pen, but Sirigu grabs him
>>>> quite
>>>> clearly. Sirigu made it too easy to give the pen, he shouldn't come out
>>>> that forcefully.

>>> This.

>>> People seem to forget that it can be a dive *and* a foul.

>> I don't think so, because the dive *creates* the foul,

> Not necessarily. Sometimes there is a foul, but the fouled player
> chooses to dive or embellish the fall to get a call, instead of trying
> to keep up with the play. So it's possible to have a foul and a dive in
> the same play.

>> so for me it can only be a dive.

> I'd be willing to agree that the Sanchez penalty against PSG is
> debatable.

It is debatable, but I think very few people would not at least
understand why it is given. (speaking of Given, this was a bit like
Given's play on Anelka, much debated a while ago, which IMHO should have
been a penalty as well).

Sanchez was definitely looking for a penalty, and looked as though he
was initiating a deliberate fall, but there is no doubt that Sirigu
grabbed his ankle, and that makes it a penalty, since it definitely
impeded his progress, and would have made it harder for him to maintain
his balance (had he chosen not to fall down, a decision I think he could
have made), or to catch up the the ball that he had clearly played by
Sirigu.

The other thing is that a rash challenge like this is still a foul even
if no contact is made (eg. the player successfully hurdles the GK). The
GK did not get to the ball first and it could be argued that even
without the hand grab, the force and position of the challenge helped
stop a scoring chance.

  It's a split second matter, and not a clear cut situation.

Quote:
> Sirigu could have been smarter on the play. The decision to award a
> penalty, while debatable, is easily justifiable.

Yup.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> The only 100% sure refereeing mistake leading to a goal in this game was
> Ibrahimovic's offside position in the first equalizer.

> Abra?o,

> Luiz Mello

 
 
 

PSG v Barca R

Post by Abubak » Fri, 05 Apr 2013 13:15:43



Quote:
> "Diabolik"  escreveu:

>>> "Sven Mischkies"  escreveu:
>>>> It's a funny one. Sanchez only wants the pen, but Sirigu grabs him  
>>>> quite
>>>> clearly. Sirigu made it too easy to give the pen, he shouldn't come  
>>>> out
>>>> that forcefully.

>>> This.

>>> People seem to forget that it can be a dive *and* a foul.

>> I don't think so, because the dive *creates* the foul,

> Not necessarily. Sometimes there is a foul, but the fouled player  
> chooses to dive or embellish the fall to get a call, instead of trying  
> to keep up with the play. So it's possible to have a foul and a dive in  
> the same play.

>> so for me it can only be a dive.

> I'd be willing to agree that the Sanchez penalty against PSG is  
> debatable. It's a split second matter, and not a clear cut situation.  
> Sirigu could have been smarter on the play. The decision to award a  
> penalty, while debatable, is easily justifiable.

> The only 100% sure refereeing mistake leading to a goal in this game was  
> Ibrahimovic's offside position in the first equalizer.

It's a clear penalty. There is little point trying to reason with this  
lost case. He has made up his mind and confirmed with Ancelotti and  
drumming the laws of the game into him wont make an iota of difference.
 
 
 

PSG v Barca R

Post by Diaboli » Fri, 05 Apr 2013 14:48:38




Quote:
> "Diabolik"  escreveu:

>>> "Sven Mischkies"  escreveu:
>>>> It's a funny one. Sanchez only wants the pen, but Sirigu grabs him
>>>> quite
>>>> clearly. Sirigu made it too easy to give the pen, he shouldn't come
>>>> out
>>>> that forcefully.

>>> This.

>>> People seem to forget that it can be a dive *and* a foul.

>> I don't think so, because the dive *creates* the foul,

> Not necessarily. Sometimes there is a foul, but the fouled player  chooses
> to dive or embellish the fall to get a call, instead of trying  to keep up
> with the play. So it's possible to have a foul and a dive in  the same
> play.

>> so for me it can only be a dive.

> I'd be willing to agree that the Sanchez penalty against PSG is
> debatable. It's a split second matter, and not a clear cut situation.
> Sirigu could have been smarter on the play. The decision to award a
> penalty, while debatable, is easily justifiable.

> The only 100% sure refereeing mistake leading to a goal in this game was
> Ibrahimovic's offside position in the first equalizer.
> It's a clear penalty.

No it isn't, it's a dive for simulation and a yellow card.

Quote:
> There is little point trying to reason with this  lost case. He has made
> up his mind and confirmed with Ancelotti and  drumming the laws of the
> game into him wont make an iota of difference.

Ancelotti has nothing to do with it. It would be a penalty if Sanchez only
embellished the dive, but he did more than that, he fell to ground before
there was contact, which was more than likely the cause of the contact.

So for me it's a dive and a yellow card for simulation and no penalty, even
though it was hard for the ref to see.

Maybe your small brain can't process too much information, it's not that
hard.