Freedon of speech and behavior

Freedon of speech and behavior

Post by Thoma » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 03:31:02


Just wondering, this is supposed to be a good intentioned question without
malice.
Why is it that when I read posts by Americans about freedoms they really
seem to be convinced that noone else has freedom of speech&whatever
other then them, when in fact Western European countries give more freedom?
Just walk the streets of Amsterdam and you'll see tons of Americans having lots
of fun enjoying freedom for the first time:)
One other thing, someone else was talking about how they were blessed
by being able to watch bobbies thanks to their funding fathers unlike other
countries. I mean come on....?!  We see more bobbies in morning shows on
TV channels then Americans do over the whole month on TV(where
showing sex seems to be politicaly incorrect or whatever, but showing someoe
getting their head blown off is total fun and acceptable - for the serier mold
them while they're young).

Well im really wondering about all this...

 
 
 

Freedon of speech and behavior

Post by Lloyd Devonshir » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 03:34:55


Quote:
> Just wondering, this is supposed to be a good intentioned question without
> malice.
> Why is it that when I read posts by Americans about freedoms they really
> seem to be convinced that noone else has freedom of speech&whatever
> other then them,

They're wrong of course, in a lot of ways. Then again, I read that you can
get arrested in Holland for making pro-fascist statements. If it's true, I
think it's something to think about-that would never happen in the US. You'd
get some free speech aimed right back up yer arse, sure, and rightfully so,
but never arrested.

Quote:
>when in fact Western European countries give more freedom?
> Just walk the streets of Amsterdam and you'll see tons of Americans having
lots
> of fun enjoying freedom for the first time:)

I may or may not define freedom as the ability to smoke weed and pay for
sex, but I'll see your point.

Quote:
> One other thing, someone else was talking about how they were blessed
> by being able to watch bobbies thanks to their funding fathers unlike
other
> countries. I mean come on....?!  We see more bobbies in morning shows on
> TV channels then Americans do over the whole month on TV(where
> showing sex seems to be politicaly incorrect or whatever, but showing
someoe
> getting their head blown off is total fun and acceptable - for the serier
mold
> them while they're young).

I agree with you here, to some extent.

 
 
 

Freedon of speech and behavior

Post by Thoma » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 03:40:02

Quote:

> Just wondering, this is supposed to be a good intentioned question without
> malice.
> Why is it that when I read posts by Americans about freedoms they really
> seem to be convinced that noone else has freedom of speech&whatever
> other then them, when in fact Western European countries give more freedom?
> Just walk the streets of Amsterdam and you'll see tons of Americans having lots
> of fun enjoying freedom for the first time:)
> One other thing, someone else was talking about how they were blessed
> by being able to watch bobbies thanks to their funding fathers unlike other
> countries. I mean come on....?!  We see more bobbies in morning shows on
> TV channels then Americans do over the whole month on TV(where
> showing sex seems to be politicaly incorrect or whatever, but showing someoe
> getting their head blown off is total fun and acceptable - for the serier mold
> them while they're young).

> Well im really wondering about all this...

And yes, I've been to the US, wondering if the people who say those diarhea
inciting  things have ever been to W. Europe?

 
 
 

Freedon of speech and behavior

Post by Thoma » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 03:43:28

Quote:

> They're wrong of course, in a lot of ways. Then again, I read that you can
> get arrested in Holland for making pro-fascist statements. If it's true, I
> think it's something to think about-that would never happen in the US. You'd
> get some free speech aimed right back up yer arse, sure, and rightfully so,
> but never arrested.

Not that I know of, since there are neo-nazis walking the streets of Holland freely
not only talking shit but vandalizing property. If you ask me I'd put those bastards
in jail, lock em up and throw the keys away.
 
 
 

Freedon of speech and behavior

Post by Lloyd Devonshir » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 03:39:33


Quote:




Quote:
> > They're wrong of course, in a lot of ways. Then again, I read that you
can
> > get arrested in Holland for making pro-fascist statements. If it's true,
I
> > think it's something to think about-that would never happen in the US.
You'd
> > get some free speech aimed right back up yer arse, sure, and rightfully
so,
> > but never arrested.

> Not that I know of, since there are neo-nazis walking the streets of
Holland freely
> not only talking shit but vandalizing property. If you ask me I'd put
those bastards
> in jail, lock em up and throw the keys away.

For the vandalizing or the talking?

Cause if it's the latter, I wouldn't get too e***d about your commitment
to free speech.

 
 
 

Freedon of speech and behavior

Post by Thoma » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 03:49:11

Quote:

> I may or may not define freedom as the ability to smoke weed and pay for
> sex, but I'll see your point.

It's not freedom per se, but it adds to the pallete of freedoms.
Don't even get me started on the US war on *** and some
major injustices - ie. locking up and destroying lifes of perfectly
productive people while constantly failing at its main objective- a
drug free America.
 
 
 

Freedon of speech and behavior

Post by Chris Francisc » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 03:49:55

Quote:



> > Just wondering, this is supposed to be a good intentioned question without
> > malice.
> > Why is it that when I read posts by Americans about freedoms they really
> > seem to be convinced that noone else has freedom of speech&whatever
> > other then them,

> They're wrong of course, in a lot of ways. Then again, I read that you can
> get arrested in Holland for making pro-fascist statements. If it's true, I
> think it's something to think about-that would never happen in the US. You'd
> get some free speech aimed right back up yer arse, sure, and rightfully so,
> but never arrested.

Part of it probably has to do with the way the modern US government came
about. The Bill of Rights was a response to the King's infringement on
basic liberties, and I think that's where the mindset that Americans have
greater civil liberties comes from. As far as what more
specific protections one has here compared to Western Europe (i.e., what
constitutes unreasonable search and seizure, right to counsel,
flag-burning, quartering soldiers, etc.), I just don't know. Clearly a lot
of the fundamental rights are very similar, but I imagine there are
issues where the US and Western Europe differ, probably going either direction.

Chris

 
 
 

Freedon of speech and behavior

Post by Thoma » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 03:50:37

Quote:





> > > They're wrong of course, in a lot of ways. Then again, I read that you
> can
> > > get arrested in Holland for making pro-fascist statements. If it's true,
> I
> > > think it's something to think about-that would never happen in the US.
> You'd
> > > get some free speech aimed right back up yer arse, sure, and rightfully
> so,
> > > but never arrested.

> > Not that I know of, since there are neo-nazis walking the streets of
> Holland freely
> > not only talking shit but vandalizing property. If you ask me I'd put
> those bastards
> > in jail, lock em up and throw the keys away.

> For the vandalizing or the talking?

> Cause if it's the latter, I wouldn't get too e***d about your commitment
> to free speech.

Vandalizing. I'm all for free speech.
 
 
 

Freedon of speech and behavior

Post by Lloyd Devonshir » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 03:47:33


Quote:




Quote:
> > I may or may not define freedom as the ability to smoke weed and pay for
> > sex, but I'll see your point.

> It's not freedom per se, but it adds to the pallete of freedoms.
> Don't even get me started on the US war on *** and some
> major injustices - ie. locking up and destroying lifes of perfectly
> productive people while constantly failing at its main objective- a
> drug free America.

You won't get any arguments from me on the war on ***.
 
 
 

Freedon of speech and behavior

Post by Magnus Homan » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 04:08:17

Quote:



> > Just wondering, this is supposed to be a good intentioned question without
> > malice.
> > Why is it that when I read posts by Americans about freedoms they really
> > seem to be convinced that noone else has freedom of speech&whatever
> > other then them,

> They're wrong of course, in a lot of ways. Then again, I read that you can
> get arrested in Holland for making pro-fascist statements. If it's true, I
> think it's something to think about-that would never happen in the US. You'd
> get some free speech aimed right back up yer arse, sure, and rightfully so,
> but never arrested.

Replace fascist with terrorists and perhaps it's clearer?

Homann
--
Magnus Homann, M.Sc. CS & E

 
 
 

Freedon of speech and behavior

Post by Lloyd Devonshir » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 04:59:42


Quote:



> > > Just wondering, this is supposed to be a good intentioned question
without
> > > malice.
> > > Why is it that when I read posts by Americans about freedoms they
really
> > > seem to be convinced that noone else has freedom of speech&whatever
> > > other then them,

> > They're wrong of course, in a lot of ways. Then again, I read that you
can
> > get arrested in Holland for making pro-fascist statements. If it's true,
I
> > think it's something to think about-that would never happen in the US.
You'd
> > get some free speech aimed right back up yer arse, sure, and rightfully
so,
> > but never arrested.

> Replace fascist with terrorists and perhaps it's clearer?

Two things:

1) You have a point, except the stated purpose of arresting the large
numbers of people was "suspected of being involved in terrorist activity".
Now we can argue all day how much evidence there actually was, but the point
was not the fact that someone said "death to America" but rather that they
were suspected to be in the process of actually planning the death of
America.

The thing I was talking about was rather someone who told me that in the
Netherlands (now I wonder if it's Germany) that even criticizing that
country's constitution can get one arrested. Not plotting to bring down the
government, not collecting C4 and submachine guns, but simply criticizing.

2. I am opposed to many of the Bush government's tactics post-9/11, and so
is the American Constitution.

 
 
 

Freedon of speech and behavior

Post by Lloyd Devonshir » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 06:36:44


Quote:
> x-no-archive: yes




Quote:
> > Just wondering, this is supposed to be a good intentioned question
without
> > malice.
> > Why is it that when I read posts by Americans about freedoms they really
> > seem to be convinced that noone else has freedom of speech&whatever
> > other then them, when in fact Western European countries give more
freedom?
> > Just walk the streets of Amsterdam and you'll see tons of Americans
having lots
> > of fun enjoying freedom for the first time:)
> > One other thing, someone else was talking about how they were blessed
> > by being able to watch bobbies thanks to their funding fathers unlike
other
> > countries. I mean come on....?!  We see more bobbies in morning shows on
> > TV channels then Americans do over the whole month on TV(where
> > showing sex seems to be politicaly incorrect or whatever, but showing
someoe
> > getting their head blown off is total fun and acceptable - for the
serier mold
> > them while they're young).

> > Well im really wondering about all this...

> troll.....*plonk*

Heh. He actually has some points. Not sure what's trolling about that. Try
refuting what he says rather than dismissing it, unless that's too much work
for you.
 
 
 

Freedon of speech and behavior

Post by Thoma » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 07:10:52

Quote:

> x-no-archive: yes


> > Just wondering, this is supposed to be a good intentioned question without
> > malice.
> > Why is it that when I read posts by Americans about freedoms they really
> > seem to be convinced that noone else has freedom of speech&whatever
> > other then them, when in fact Western European countries give more freedom?
> > Just walk the streets of Amsterdam and you'll see tons of Americans having lots
> > of fun enjoying freedom for the first time:)
> > One other thing, someone else was talking about how they were blessed
> > by being able to watch bobbies thanks to their funding fathers unlike other
> > countries. I mean come on....?!  We see more bobbies in morning shows on
> > TV channels then Americans do over the whole month on TV(where
> > showing sex seems to be politicaly incorrect or whatever, but showing someoe
> > getting their head blown off is total fun and acceptable - for the serier mold
> > them while they're young).

> > Well im really wondering about all this...

> troll.....*plonk*

Tell me, what exactly is trolling about my post?
I've just seen a very ignorant and ridiculous post a few threads bellow so here I
am asking some questions and trying to understand.
I have even received an e-mail reply to my post from an undisclosed source
telling me that I am a "bitter, bitter old frenchman". Well I am not a frenchman,
but yes, angry and disgusted that fellow Westerners from a developed country
share such ignorance in a public and international forum such as this.
 
 
 

Freedon of speech and behavior

Post by Mike » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 08:43:33

Quote:

> The thing I was talking about was rather someone who told me that in the
> Netherlands (now I wonder if it's Germany) that even criticizing that
> country's constitution can get one arrested. Not plotting to bring down the
> government, not collecting C4 and submachine guns, but simply criticizing.

You might be talking about Germany here. If yes, then you are exaggerating claiming that
criticizing the constitution will get you arrested, but following the downfall of the Weimar
republic immediately before the rise of National Socialism, Germany's post-1949 constitution
does contain safeguards this sort of thing does not happen again - ie., anti-democratic forces
can be declared illegal. Ergo, extreme far-right parties can be outlawed since they are working
to undermine the constitution.

Mike

 
 
 

Freedon of speech and behavior

Post by Nate50 » Sun, 07 Jul 2002 09:50:10



Quote:
>Just wondering, this is supposed to be a good intentioned question without
>malice.
>Why is it that when I read posts by Americans about freedoms they really
>seem to be convinced that noone else has freedom of speech&whatever
>other then them, when in fact Western European countries give more freedom?
>Just walk the streets of Amsterdam and you'll see tons of Americans having lots
>of fun enjoying freedom for the first time:)

In France you can get arrested for wearing a shirt that has a pot leaf
on it.  Granted, it isn't always enforced, but the law is on the
books.  Western Europe covers a lot more countries than just
Holland....you can't do the same things in Sweden or Austria that you
can do in Holland.

"I'm like the man who single handedly built the rocket
and went to the moon.  What was his name, Apollo Creed?"
--Homer Simpson

-----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
   http://www.newsfeed.com       The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =-----