About me (Jos) and my big mouth:
I do apologize for posting the flame and its contents and the way
it was presented. In particular claiming statistics instead
of including them is not a very good idea. Let me make some things clear.
I do like french soccer. I always enjoyed the PSV- St. Etienne matches
(St. Etienne usually being the better team). I do think that the
french victory in 1984 (european championship) was deserved and
they had one of the best teams in the world during that period.
The played a good World cup in 1986, and I especially remember
the game versus Brasil. I also think that Marseille and Bordeaux
are good teams and play at a good european level (although
you might read Monaco nowadays instead of Bordeaux).
The french team is also one of my favourites to win the
european championship in 1992.
I also admit that looking at the number of cups won is not very deep
and probably not fair for the french. Despite the position on
the UEFA list I still don't think France is one of the big 5 in europe.
The big 4 have been big for a long period of time. Most teams would
like to avoid the champions of the big 4 for as long as possible
(except maybe teams that would be eliminated in the first two rounds
anyway. They might prefer an attractive opponent). In my opinion the
nr 5 of europe would be Portugal and not France. And I don't
regard the `average' french team better than the `average' team of the
countries I mentioned in the previous posting. So my point still
remains (althoug better formulated) I don't see that France is the
nr 5 in europe. I think that any of the other countries (Belgium, Holland
Sweden etc) could claim to be nr5 also.
By the way, I re-read the original posting, it said
the big 5 of europe OR Spain etc. There was no claim that those
teams are the big 5.