World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

Post by Futbolmetri » Tue, 16 May 2006 00:02:08


HT:

Reggina - Juve  0-1

Milan - Roma    1-1

Daniele

 
 
 

World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

Post by Julien D » Tue, 16 May 2006 01:46:05

Quote:

> HT:

> Reggina - Juve  0-1

> Milan - Roma    1-1

> Daniele

It ended 0-2 and 2-1 for those who care more for the final result than
the half time result.

(So Inter is champion (well, Juve and A.C. will drop to serie B no?))

 
 
 

World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

Post by Benn » Tue, 16 May 2006 02:06:08

Quote:
> Subject : [R] World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

>It ended 0-2 and 2-1 for those who care more for the final result than
>the half time result.

>(So Inter is champion (well, Juve and A.C. will drop to serie B no?))

If the evidence against Milan only consists of three games (one win, one
draw and one loss) then no they won't be relegated nor will the other
clubs named such as Lazio and Fiorentina. Juve should be relegated but
I expect they'll get away with it.

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World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

Post by Futbolmetri » Tue, 16 May 2006 06:04:11


Quote:

> If the evidence against Milan only consists of three games (one win, one
> draw and one loss) then no they won't be relegated nor will the other
> clubs named such as Lazio and Fiorentina. Juve should be relegated but
> I expect they'll get away with it.

Actually, no. If Milan (and Lazio and Fiorentina) are found guilty of trying
to fix even a single game, they would be relegated, if precedent means
anything. Of course, given the extent of the allegations against Juve, this
is a completely unprecedented situation, so it's Milan who will likely get
away with it.

By the way, the wiretappings involving Milan are about a Milan ofiicial,
Leonardo Meani, having conversations with a linesman and congratulating him
for doing a good job. From what has been published up to now, Milan's
position seems fairly marginal: they're like the little kids who want to
join the party, but they're not even close to being in the same league as
Moggi (of course, they weren't the ones being extensively wiretapped).

Daniele

 
 
 

World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

Post by MH » Tue, 16 May 2006 05:28:02

Quote:

>>Subject : [R] World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

>>It ended 0-2 and 2-1 for those who care more for the final result than
>>the half time result.

>>(So Inter is champion (well, Juve and A.C. will drop to serie B no?))

> If the evidence against Milan only consists of three games (one win, one
> draw and one loss) then no they won't be relegated nor will the other
> clubs named such as Lazio and Fiorentina. Juve should be relegated but
> I expect they'll get away with it.

Juve may well be guilty as hell, but I wish you would bury your anti
bianconeri prejudices and not condemn them without trial.
Quote:

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World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

Post by Benn » Tue, 16 May 2006 06:23:12

Quote:
> Subject : [R] World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

>Actually, no. If Milan (and Lazio and Fiorentina) are found guilty of trying
>to fix even a single game, they would be relegated, if precedent means
>anything. Of course, given the extent of the allegations against Juve, this
>is a completely unprecedented situation, so it's Milan who will likely get
>away with it.
>By the way, the wiretappings involving Milan are about a Milan ofiicial,
>Leonardo Meani, having conversations with a linesman and congratulating him
>for doing a good job. From what has been published up to now, Milan's
>position seems fairly marginal: they're like the little kids who want to
>join the party, but they're not even close to being in the same league as
>Moggi (of course, they weren't the ones being extensively wiretapped).

>Daniele

Thanks for the info. Meani isn't listed in an official capacity on the
club's website so his exact role is unclear. There are more transcripts
here :

http://www.goal.com/en/articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=50679

I've tidied up some of the English.

Paolo Bergamo is the referee designator?

Leonardo Meani telephones linesman Contini who was designated for the
Milan-Brescia match on the 9th of April 2006 which ended 1-1. I believe
this was Dida's first match after the Inter flare incident. Contini
calls Meani for a dinner-meeting

Meani : Cool, if there wasn't the uncle, however always eh?
Contini : *laughs*

Something must have been lost in translation because that makes no
sense.

The second game is Milan-Chievo 1-0 from the 20th of April and this
discussion involves Bergamo and the VP of the referees commission
Pierlugi Pairetto

Bergamo : And one who has been already for two months which we should
have put him and there was some pressure and therefore we put Puglisi to
direct Milan-Chievo? Yesterday there were mistakes and therefore they
ask 'why do you penalize us?' That is with me they did not speak, eh?
I'll tell you the truth, they alled (alleged?) Gennaro (Mazzei)

Gennaro Mazzei is a linesman. Are Milan complaining about him or did
they want him as one of the officials?

Paparesta officiated Milan vs Chievo. The game seems to have gone out
without controversy according to this report :

http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/sa0405/mil-chi.html

I didn't write a review as it ended 1-0.

The third match is Siena 2-1 Milan from the 17th of April 2005. FIGC
Vice President Innocenzo Mazzini talks with Juventus CEO Antonio
Giraudo :

Mazzini : However I must say that our friend was exceptional at Siena

In this discussion Contini (the linesman) talking about Baglioni, the
linesman designated for the Siena-Milan game with Meani

Contini : He's Pairetto's friend, if you want to know he's the one who
books the tickets for him, that Pairetto goes to eat at his house, not
at the restaurant, at his house.

Meani : "What the f*ck, what the f*ck, I really don't want him, I don't
want him, I never asked for him nor wanted him, this is one now he's
also asking me to be very careful, not to make mistakes because Galliani
is very angry, obviously. So tell him to be very careful form now on
till the end of the season however Gennaro is very angry, tell
him that from now on he must not make any f*cking mistakes because he's
very angry, therefore also on Wednesday try to send two intelligent
ones.

So basically Meani complains because he's been told the linesman was a
friend of Pairetto which means Meani (or Milan) must have known of
Juve's collusion with Pairetto and also clearly shows Meani was on
friendly terms with this particular linesman (Contini).

Gennaro Mazzei's involvement is unclear. It seems the only incriminating
thing here is this comment :

"I don't want him, I never asked for him nor wanted him."

Now given Milan actually lost this match I'd say there's nothing to
worry about unless of course some other evidence turns up. Even though
this is more interesting than the entire season itself I'll go through
the stuff involving Lazio and Fiorentina later as I haven't started on
the Serie A reports yet.

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World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

Post by Benn » Tue, 16 May 2006 06:24:24

Quote:
> Subject : [R] World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

>Juve may well be guilty as hell, but I wish you would bury your anti
>bianconeri prejudices and not condemn them without trial.

Have you read the transcripts?

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World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

Post by Benn » Tue, 16 May 2006 06:48:02

Paolo Bergamo is the referee designator and Gennaro Mazzei is the
President of the linesman or if you prefer assistant referees.

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World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

Post by Grant Flower » Tue, 16 May 2006 10:30:30

Quote:

> (So Inter is champion (well, Juve and A.C. will drop to serie B no?))

For what reasons was Fiorentina exploded and renamed Florentia Viola and
sent down to Serie C2?  I understand it had something to do with bankruptcy,
but perhaps there was more.

Now, if Juve were relegated to Serie B, then the obvious conclusion is that
bankruptcy is worse than systemic cheating.

Is there a Serie E?

Grant

 
 
 

World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

Post by Benn » Tue, 16 May 2006 11:01:59

Quote:
> Subject : [R] World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

>For what reasons was Fiorentina exploded and renamed Florentia Viola and
>sent down to Serie C2?  I understand it had something to do with bankruptcy,
>but perhaps there was more.

They finished 17th and were also bankrupt. They went into administration
and due to Italian laws at the time were refused entry in Serie B so
ceased to exit. A new club was formed, Florentia Viola, and played in
Serie C2. Due to the league's utter incompetence in handling a dispute
over the fielding of an ineligible player by Siena, Serie A and Serie B
were increased, Fiorentina skipped a promotion (C1 to B), purchased the
rights to use the Fiorentina name then were promoted into Serie A a year
later. There was more to the bankruptcy as the owner, Checchi Gori, was
a crook and using the clubs money for his own means, property or
something, I don't remember.

Quote:
>Now, if Juve were relegated to Serie B, then the obvious conclusion is that
>bankruptcy is worse than systemic cheating.

That's how they see things in Italy but they should make an exception in
this case.

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World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

Post by MH » Tue, 16 May 2006 12:05:54

Quote:

>>Subject : [R] World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

>>Juve may well be guilty as hell, but I wish you would bury your anti
>>bianconeri prejudices and not condemn them without trial.

> Have you read the transcripts?

I have read everything that has been posted here.  I strongly suspect
Juve (Moggi) has been involved in some serious skullduggery. However, I
am not going to condemn them (i.e. say they should be relegated to serie
B) before they have had their day in court. Trial by media/popular
opinion is never a good idea.

How do we know we are getting the whole story from these transcripts ?
We had a case last year in Canadian politics where an opposition member
produced tapes purporting to prove our health minister had tried to buy
his defection to the government side (before the budget vote) with a
promise of a cabinet post. Turns out the tapes were doctored.

Let's just wait and see how it all comes out.  I am offended by a crook
like Berlusconi asking to be given "our titles" when the mater is still
sub judice.

Quote:

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World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

Post by Google Beta Use » Tue, 16 May 2006 13:20:08

What a circus.

Would the Italian FA do something by themselves, or would this take
FIFA getting involved via threatening a ban to Italian clubs in Europe
or banning Italy from International Competitions?

Do the star players stay with the banned clubs, or do other big clubs
in Europe start***ing their chops?

 
 
 

World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

Post by Futbolmetri » Tue, 16 May 2006 15:17:41


Quote:

> For what reasons was Fiorentina exploded and renamed Florentia Viola and
> sent down to Serie C2?  I understand it had something to do with
> bankruptcy,
> but perhaps there was more.

> Now, if Juve were relegated to Serie B, then the obvious conclusion is
> that
> bankruptcy is worse than systemic cheating.

When the old Fiorentina went bankrupt, it ceased to exist as a legal entity,
and a new club was formed that inherited Fiorentina's assets. That's the
reason that the new club started from Serie C2.

As for Juve, the disciplinary code does allow the FA to relegate the team to
*any* inferior division in case of serious and reiterated attempts at
sporting fraud. So Serie C1 and Serie C2 are also possible, even though,
because of the large commercial interests at stake, nobody has really that
much to gain from eliminating Juve from the map. On the other hand, Italian
football has survived with Napoli (the 4th most popular club in the country)
out of the top division for nearly a decade, so who knows.

Quote:

> Is there a Serie E?

The Italian pyramid:

Serie A
Serie B
Serie C1
Serie C2
Interregionale
Promozione
1a Categoria
2a Categoria
3a Categoria

Daniele

 
 
 

World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

Post by Futbolmetri » Tue, 16 May 2006 15:22:39



Quote:
> What a circus.

> Would the Italian FA do something by themselves, or would this take
> FIFA getting involved via threatening a ban to Italian clubs in Europe
> or banning Italy from International Competitions?

The Italian FA will do something.

Quote:
> Do the star players stay with the banned clubs, or do other big clubs
> in Europe start***ing their chops?

If Juve is relegated, my guess is that Vieira, Emerson, Trezeguet and
Camoranesi are out, maybe even Buffon. Nedved will probably retire, and so
could Thuram. Del Piero and Zambrotta to stay for sure, probably Cannavaro
as well. I don't know about Ibrahimovic.

Daniele

 
 
 

World Wrestl...erm... Serie A

Post by James Farra » Tue, 16 May 2006 17:46:38



Quote:
>>Now, if Juve were relegated to Serie B, then the obvious conclusion is that
>>bankruptcy is worse than systemic cheating.

>That's how they see things in Italy but they should make an exception in
>this case.

Because it's Juve, right?

--
James Farrar