Sport Today

by **Futbolmetri** » Fri, 09 Apr 2010 04:03:34

Some interesting new wiretappings came out this week, courtesy of Moggi's
attorneys at the calciopoli trial in Napoli. Wiretappings conveniently
ignored by the prosecutors, who had actually claimed openly that Moggi had
been the only one who had had inappropriate conversations with Bergamo and
Pairetto, the referee designators. Here are some excerpts:

Bergamo to Facchetti (Inter president at the time): "let's go and win it
together, Giacinto!"

Facchetti to Mazzei (guy responsible for assigning linesmen): "I want the
number 1 and 2 linesmen, Ivaldi and Pisacreta"
Mazzei: "yes, number 1 and 2, Ivaldi and Pisacreta"
Facchetti: "I'd also like the number 1 referee"
Mazzei: "that's more difficult, there's the grid"
Facchetti: "yeah, sure..."

Moratti to Bergamo: "I wanted to see you in private"

This could end up being interesting...

D

by **Diaboli** » Fri, 09 Apr 2010 09:15:32

Quote:

> Some interesting new wiretappings came out this week, courtesy of Moggi's
> attorneys at the calciopoli trial in Napoli. Wiretappings conveniently
> ignored by the prosecutors, who had actually claimed openly that Moggi had
> been the only one who had had inappropriate conversations with Bergamo and
> Pairetto, the referee designators. Here are some excerpts:

> Bergamo to Facchetti (Inter president at the time): "let's go and win it
> together, Giacinto!"

> Facchetti to Mazzei (guy responsible for assigning linesmen): "I want the
> number 1 and 2 linesmen, Ivaldi and Pisacreta"
> Mazzei: "yes, number 1 and 2, Ivaldi and Pisacreta"
> Facchetti: "I'd also like the number 1 referee"
> Mazzei: "that's more difficult, there's the grid"
> Facchetti: "yeah, sure..."

> Moratti to Bergamo: "I wanted to see you in private"

> This could end up being interesting...

So what evidence of cheating is there? Just because they asked for the best
refs?

Big deal.

by **Futbolmetri** » Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:03:23

Quote:

> So what evidence of cheating is there? Just because they asked for the best
> refs?

As opposed to Moggi who instead...asked for the best referees.

by **Diaboli** » Fri, 09 Apr 2010 10:09:36

Quote:

> So what evidence of cheating is there? Just because they asked for the
> best
> refs?

> As opposed to Moggi who instead...asked for the best referees.

Moggi did more than that, he gave them presents, etc...

The conversations were at a different level.

by **Futbolmetri** » Fri, 09 Apr 2010 11:19:14

Quote:

> Moggi did more than that, he gave them presents, etc...

He did? That's news.

Quote:

> The conversations were at a different level.

They were not. But they were fed to media together with the spin put
on them by the prosecutors, who carefully selected which wiretappings
to reveal, so that they could make the case that Moggi was at the head
of a mafia-like organization, and everybody had to defer to him. As
Benny would say, what a load of bullshit.

Oh, and if I were you, I'd be a little bit worried. The new
wiretappings involving Meani and Galliani are actually much worse than
the ones involving Facchetti and Moratti. Not that anybody ever had
any doubts about the sleaziness of the Sleazy ***s.

D

by **Diaboli** » Fri, 09 Apr 2010 11:37:03

Quote:

> Moggi did more than that, he gave them presents, etc...
> He did? That's news.

I'm suprised you never heard of the *cash* and *expensive watches* given to
the referees by Juve directors.
And this is stated by an ex Juve director, Capobianco.
http://SportToday.org/

Is there any evidence of any other team doing this? Inter? Milan?

Quote:

> The conversations were at a different level.
> They were not.

See above. Evidence of *actions*, not just conversations.

Quote:

> But they were fed to media together with the spin put
> on them by the prosecutors, who carefully selected which wiretappings
> to reveal, so that they could make the case that Moggi was at the head
> of a mafia-like organization, and everybody had to defer to him. As
> Benny would say, what a load of bullshit.

I think that probably isn't true too, that he was the head.

But he was convicted because he was bribing refs, and rightlyfully so.

Quote:

> Oh, and if I were you, I'd be a little bit worried. The new
> wiretappings involving Meani and Galliani are actually much worse than
> the ones involving Facchetti and Moratti. Not that anybody ever had
> any doubts about the sleaziness of the Sleazy ***s.

Evidence of actions, then I'll believe it.

Friendly conversations with the refs means nothing. Moggi's conversations
were backed up with evidence.

by **Futbolmetri** » Fri, 09 Apr 2010 12:28:02

Quote:

> > Moggi did more than that, he gave them presents, etc...
> > He did? That's news.

> I'm suprised you never heard of the *cash* and *expensive watches* given to
> the referees by Juve directors.
> And this is stated by an ex Juve director, Capobianco.http://SportToday.org/

Is that the best you could do? Dig up the unsubstantiated whining of a
disgruntled former employee, never backed up by anything. Those
allegations are not even part of the Naples
prosecutors' case, that should be enough evidence that they are
completely bogus.

Quote:

> Is there any evidence of any other team doing this? Inter? Milan?

You really do have a short memory, don't you? Don't you remember the
golden Rolex watches given by Sensi (Roma president) and the expensive
training equipment given by Inter?

http://SportToday.org/

Quote:

> > The conversations were at a different level.
> > They were not.

> See above. Evidence of *actions*, not just conversations.

Bullshit. You have been brainwashed by the first wave of the
calciopoli, and you are too narrow-minded and blinkered to see the
truth.

Quote:

> > But they were fed to media together with the spin put
> > on them by the prosecutors, who carefully selected which wiretappings
> > to reveal, so that they could make the case that Moggi was at the head
> > of a mafia-like organization, and everybody had to defer to him. As
> > Benny would say, what a load of bullshit.

> I think that probably isn't true too, that he was the head.

> But he was convicted because he was bribing refs, and rightlyfully so.

> > Oh, and if I were you, I'd be a little bit worried. The new
> > wiretappings involving Meani and Galliani are actually much worse than
> > the ones involving Facchetti and Moratti. Not that anybody ever had
> > any doubts about the sleaziness of the Sleazy ***s.

> Evidence of actions, then I'll believe it.

> Friendly conversations with the refs means nothing. Moggi's conversations
> were backed up with evidence.

Just substitute Meani with Moggi in the most recent wiretappings, and
you would sing a completely different tune.

Moggi will be fully cleared of any wrongdoing. Wait and see.

D

by **Diaboli** » Fri, 09 Apr 2010 13:13:58

Quote:

> > Moggi did more than that, he gave them presents, etc...
> > He did? That's news.

> I'm suprised you never heard of the *cash* and *expensive watches* given
> to
> the referees by Juve directors.
> And this is stated by an ex Juve director,
> Capobianco.http://SportToday.org/
> Is that the best you could do? Dig up the unsubstantiated whining of a
> disgruntled former employee, never backed up by anything. Those
> allegations are not even part of the Naples
> prosecutors' case, that should be enough evidence that they are
> completely bogus.

Nah, there's evidence to back his claims.

Quote:

> Is there any evidence of any other team doing this? Inter? Milan?
> You really do have a short memory, don't you? Don't you remember the
> golden Rolex watches given by Sensi (Roma president) and the expensive
> training equipment given by Inter?

http://SportToday.org/

I remember the rolex, but nothing from Inter, and they are bribes so they
should also be prosecuted.

Is there any evidence that Milan did this, apart from that Chievo telephone
call incident regarding the lineman which had no effect on the game?

Quote:

> > The conversations were at a different level.
> > They were not.

> See above. Evidence of *actions*, not just conversations.
> Bullshit. You have been brainwashed by the first wave of the
> calciopoli

I don't get brainwahsed by the media or anything else, I make my own
judgement.

If there is evidence, then they should be prosecuted, no matter which team.

Quote:

>, and you are too narrow-minded and blinkered to see the
> truth.

What's the truth? Do you know the truth?

I'm suprised you even support some-one like Moggi.

Quote:

> > But they were fed to media together with the spin put
> > on them by the prosecutors, who carefully selected which wiretappings
> > to reveal, so that they could make the case that Moggi was at the head
> > of a mafia-like organization, and everybody had to defer to him. As
> > Benny would say, what a load of bullshit.

> I think that probably isn't true too, that he was the head.

> But he was convicted because he was bribing refs, and rightlyfully so.

> > Oh, and if I were you, I'd be a little bit worried. The new
> > wiretappings involving Meani and Galliani are actually much worse than
> > the ones involving Facchetti and Moratti. Not that anybody ever had
> > any doubts about the sleaziness of the Sleazy ***s.

> Evidence of actions, then I'll believe it.

> Friendly conversations with the refs means nothing. Moggi's conversations
> were backed up with evidence.
> Just substitute Meani with Moggi in the most recent wiretappings, and
> you would sing a completely different tune.
> Moggi will be fully cleared of any wrongdoing. Wait and see.

In the end, there was a common culture of the top clubs talking to the refs
and giving them presents.

Even though Sensi gave rolex to the refs, they were never really favored by
the refs. So this never guaranteed success.

The FIRST that should be prosecuted are the REFS, because they accepted
these bribes.

Many clubs paid the price except for Inter. If there's evidence against them
then they should be prosecuted too.

by **Abubak** » Fri, 09 Apr 2010 13:14:26

Quote:

> > > Moggi did more than that, he gave them presents, etc...
> > > He did? That's news.

> > I'm suprised you never heard of the *cash* and *expensive watches* given to
> > the referees by Juve directors.
> > And this is stated by an ex Juve director, Capobianco.http://SportToday.org/

> Is that the best you could do? Dig up the unsubstantiated whining of a
> disgruntled former employee, never backed up by anything. Those
> allegations are not even part of the Naples
> prosecutors' case, that should be enough evidence that they are
> completely bogus.

> > Is there any evidence of any other team doing this? Inter? Milan?

> You really do have a short memory, don't you? Don't you remember the
> golden Rolex watches given by Sensi (Roma president) and the expensive
> training equipment given by Inter?

> http://SportToday.org/

> > > The conversations were at a different level.
> > > They were not.

> > See above. Evidence of *actions*, not just conversations.

> Bullshit. You have been brainwashed by the first wave of the
> calciopoli, and you are too narrow-minded and blinkered to see the
> truth.

> > > But they were fed to media together with the spin put
> > > on them by the prosecutors, who carefully selected which wiretappings
> > > to reveal, so that they could make the case that Moggi was at the head
> > > of a mafia-like organization, and everybody had to defer to him. As
> > > Benny would say, what a load of bullshit.

> > I think that probably isn't true too, that he was the head.

> > But he was convicted because he was bribing refs, and rightlyfully so.

> > > Oh, and if I were you, I'd be a little bit worried. The new
> > > wiretappings involving Meani and Galliani are actually much worse than
> > > the ones involving Facchetti and Moratti. Not that anybody ever had
> > > any doubts about the sleaziness of the Sleazy ***s.

> > Evidence of actions, then I'll believe it.

> > Friendly conversations with the refs means nothing. Moggi's conversations
> > were backed up with evidence.

> Just substitute Meani with Moggi in the most recent wiretappings, and
> you would sing a completely different tune.

> Moggi will be fully cleared of any wrongdoing. Wait and see.

> D

Should this thing play out as you feel it ought to, what do you think
will result from it in terms of recriminations and that sort of thing?

by **Futbolmetri** » Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:05:40

Quote:

> > > > Moggi did more than that, he gave them presents, etc...
> > > > He did? That's news.

> > > I'm suprised you never heard of the *cash* and *expensive watches* given to
> > > the referees by Juve directors.
> > > And this is stated by an ex Juve director, Capobianco.http://SportToday.org/

> > Is that the best you could do? Dig up the unsubstantiated whining of a
> > disgruntled former employee, never backed up by anything. Those
> > allegations are not even part of the Naples
> > prosecutors' case, that should be enough evidence that they are
> > completely bogus.

> > > Is there any evidence of any other team doing this? Inter? Milan?

> > You really do have a short memory, don't you? Don't you remember the
> > golden Rolex watches given by Sensi (Roma president) and the expensive
> > training equipment given by Inter?

> >http://SportToday.org/

> > > > The conversations were at a different level.
> > > > They were not.

> > > See above. Evidence of *actions*, not just conversations.

> > Bullshit. You have been brainwashed by the first wave of the
> > calciopoli, and you are too narrow-minded and blinkered to see the
> > truth.

> > > > But they were fed to media together with the spin put
> > > > on them by the prosecutors, who carefully selected which wiretappings
> > > > to reveal, so that they could make the case that Moggi was at the head
> > > > of a mafia-like organization, and everybody had to defer to him. As
> > > > Benny would say, what a load of bullshit.

> > > I think that probably isn't true too, that he was the head.

> > > But he was convicted because he was bribing refs, and rightlyfully so.

> > > > Oh, and if I were you, I'd be a little bit worried. The new
> > > > wiretappings involving Meani and Galliani are actually much worse than
> > > > the ones involving Facchetti and Moratti. Not that anybody ever had
> > > > any doubts about the sleaziness of the Sleazy ***s.

> > > Evidence of actions, then I'll believe it.

> > > Friendly conversations with the refs means nothing. Moggi's conversations
> > > were backed up with evidence.

> > Just substitute Meani with Moggi in the most recent wiretappings, and
> > you would sing a completely different tune.

> > Moggi will be fully cleared of any wrongdoing. Wait and see.

> > D

> Should this thing play out as you feel it ought to, what do you think
> will result from it in terms of recriminations and that sort of thing?

In an ideal world, the 2005 and 2006 scudetti will be returned to
Juve, and we should be given substantial compensation for the damages
suffered because of the intolerably biased way in which the whole
calciopoli affair unfolded. If the Immaculate ***s were to be
relegated to Serie B and forced to sell us Maicon, Sneijder and
Milito, I wouldn't mind.

A more realistic scenario is that the 2006 scudetto, which the ***s
shamelessly celebrate on their home page, will be left as unassigned.

D

by **Futbolmetri** » Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:10:23

Quote:

> Is there any evidence that Milan did this, apart from that Chievo telephone
> call incident regarding the lineman which had no effect on the game?

If we're going to go by whether the conversations had any effect on
games, then we should also consider that Juve had a substantially
worse point average under the suspected referees than under those not
involved in Calciopoli.

Quote:

> I'm suprised you even support some-one like Moggi.

I don't have to drink coffee with him, but he's far far from the
monster that has been depicted.

Quote:

> > I think that probably isn't true too, that he was the head.

Nice to know that you are finally seeing a little bit of light.

D

by **Diaboli** » Fri, 09 Apr 2010 14:46:02

Quote:

> Is there any evidence that Milan did this, apart from that Chievo
> telephone
> call incident regarding the lineman which had no effect on the game?
> If we're going to go by whether the conversations had any effect on
> games, then we should also consider that Juve had a substantially
> worse point average under the suspected referees than under those not
> involved in Calciopoli.

It was just an observation. The Roma directors gave the refs watches but
they never got favored.

Milan got deducted points for that phone call. Juve isn't the only team that
suffered.

Quote:

> I'm suprised you even support some-one like Moggi.
> I don't have to drink coffee with him, but he's far far from the
> monster that has been depicted.

He's corrupt and tried to bribe refs. Juts because others also did it,
doesn't mean he's not guilty.

Quote:

> > I think that probably isn't true too, that he was the head.
> Nice to know that you are finally seeing a little bit of light.

He's still guilty for trying to bribe refs.

by **Futbolmetri** » Fri, 09 Apr 2010 23:07:35

Quote:

> He's corrupt and tried to bribe refs.

No he didn't. There's not a single shred of evidence of any type of bribes.
Not even close.

The whole prosecution's case rests on the hypothesis of an "illecito
strutturale", a "structural fraud". Since there is not a single shred of
evidence of fraud in specific matches, the prosecution had to build the case
that Moggi was pulling the strings of the whole system. That case could have
been viewed as vaguely plausible if Moggi was indeed the only person having
certain types of conversations with Bergamo and Pairetto. As everybody with
a grain of salt immediately suspected, and everybody with a grain of
intellectual honesty immediately recognizes today, that is not the case.

D

by **Diaboli** » Sat, 10 Apr 2010 00:36:35

Quote:

>> He's corrupt and tried to bribe refs.

> No he didn't. There's not a single shred of evidence of any type of
> bribes. Not even close.

So buying the refs $10,000 watches isn't a bribe? Are you kidding?

The refs are the first to blame, cause they accepted expensive gifts.

If anything, it wasn't only Moggi, but all the directors that were in it are
guilty.

Quote:

> The whole prosecution's case rests on the hypothesis of an "illecito
> strutturale", a "structural fraud". Since there is not a single shred of
> evidence of fraud in specific matches, the prosecution had to build the
> case that Moggi was pulling the strings of the whole system. That case
> could have been viewed as vaguely plausible if Moggi was indeed the only
> person having certain types of conversations with Bergamo and Pairetto. As
> everybody with a grain of salt immediately suspected, and everybody with a
> grain of intellectual honesty immediately recognizes today, that is not
> the case.

Even though that isn't true (which I believe he isn't guilty for the above),
he still tried to bribe refs by buying expensive gifts, together with other
Juve directors.

by **Futbolmetri** » Sat, 10 Apr 2010 00:58:29

Quote:

> Even though that isn't true (which I believe he isn't guilty for the
> above), he still tried to bribe refs by buying expensive gifts, together
> with other Juve directors.

Again, those are unsubstantiated allegations that completely fell off the
radar screen and are not even part of the prosecution's case. There were no
bribes.

D

Sport Today

The calciopoli castle of lies is crumbling...

The calciopoli castle of lies is crumbling...

The calciopoli castle of lies is crumbling...

The calciopoli castle of lies is crumbling...

The calciopoli castle of lies is crumbling...

The calciopoli castle of lies is crumbling...

The calciopoli castle of lies is crumbling...

The calciopoli castle of lies is crumbling...

The calciopoli castle of lies is crumbling...

The calciopoli castle of lies is crumbling...

The calciopoli castle of lies is crumbling...

The calciopoli castle of lies is crumbling...

The calciopoli castle of lies is crumbling...

The calciopoli castle of lies is crumbling...

The calciopoli castle of lies is crumbling...

The calciopoli castle of lies is crumbling...