Sport Today

by **raciere ex** » Thu, 20 Jun 2002 01:58:42

look.... something has to be done. there are just way too many
controversial calls that are deciding matches. yes, you can argue that
italy lost because they played poorly when it counted, blah blah etc... but
every game they played had repeated controversial ref calls. particularly
the first game where two goals were disallowed. and its not just them...
most every team this world cup has either *profitted* or been *victimized*
by bad calls.

you can argue that in the end all the calls "even out"... ie, the number of
good calls vs. bad calls that go your way. but in my mind.... SOMETHING has
to be done. its just not right at this level of competition for games to be
decided not by the quality of the team, but by the sight-lines and quality
of the ref.

how could video replay be used judiciously? any other alternatives?

by **JOHNY** » Thu, 20 Jun 2002 02:06:05

Quote:

>how could video replay be used judiciously? any other alternatives?

Even with video mistakes would be made. Either use computers or humans. With
teams becoming more evenly matched almost every game will have controversy. It
doesn't happen as much in longer tournaments because the bad calls even out
over time.

by **Paul** » Thu, 20 Jun 2002 02:06:45

Quote:

>look.... something has to be done. there are just way too many
>controversial calls that are deciding matches. yes, you can argue that
>italy lost because they played poorly when it counted, blah blah etc... but
>every game they played had repeated controversial ref calls. particularly
>the first game where two goals were disallowed. and its not just them...
>most every team this world cup has either *profitted* or been *victimized*
>by bad calls.

>you can argue that in the end all the calls "even out"... ie, the number of
>good calls vs. bad calls that go your way. but in my mind.... SOMETHING has
>to be done. its just not right at this level of competition for games to be
>decided not by the quality of the team, but by the sight-lines and quality
>of the ref.

>how could video replay be used judiciously? any other alternatives?

Yes. Ask players not to cheat.
--

Paul
www.footballpyramid.co.uk

by **Lee Harri** » Thu, 20 Jun 2002 02:08:40

Quote:

> look.... something has to be done. there are just way too many
> controversial calls that are deciding matches

how was todays match changed?

only the offside seemed to have made a difference but didnt the koreans stop
at the whistle
offside calls have been like that since day one, everyone gets them, its
part of the game, too
close to call. i think there were a lot more things that decided the match,
like Vieri missing the net from 3 yards out for example.

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by **Paul** » Thu, 20 Jun 2002 02:15:53

On Tue, 18 Jun 2002 18:08:40 +0100, "Lee Harris"

Quote:

>> look.... something has to be done. there are just way too many
>> controversial calls that are deciding matches

>how was todays match changed?

>only the offside seemed to have made a difference but didnt the koreans stop
>at the whistle
>offside calls h

Absolutely. The Italian continued and should have been yellow-carded.
Definite referee bias in favour of Italy.

--

Paul
www.footballpyramid.co.uk

by **Lee Harri** » Thu, 20 Jun 2002 02:18:21

Quote:

> >how could video replay be used judiciously? any other alternatives?

> Yes. Ask players not to cheat.

my point exactly.
hard to believe this just goes over the heads of players and coaches and
fans doesnt it.
they wouldnt put up with it in most sports (players, coaches AND fans)

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by **raciere ex** » Thu, 20 Jun 2002 02:37:35

but you forget why games have referees in the first place. if players could
be counted on to manage the game with total sportsmanship and fairness, you
wouldn't even need a ref... other than to possibly manage the time. its
just naive to say "ask players not to cheat".

look, in most every major global sport.... even here in america with
baseball, basketball, football (ie tackleball) you have players who are
going to push the margins of what is allowable.. take the NBA - you have
both fouls and flops... and players figure that into the strategy of the
game. same with football/soccer... players figure into the game how they
can push the margins to advance their team. sometimes those things are
overt... sometimes they are subtle or even accidental. so cheating and
pushing the margins are not ALWAYS the same. the players cannot be expected
to regulate this... since that is why you have referee's in the first place.

if you were to do video replay, you could set it up so a team had only 2
appeals to video, and ONLY on calls that occurred inside the box... ie,
goals and penalty shot plays.

and whether or not you think italy justifiably lost or not, or if other
teams were victimized or NOT, there is enough traffic and comments on it all
over the world to merit some sort of FIFA committee to look into possible
alternatives.

Quote:

> >look.... something has to be done. there are just way too many
> >controversial calls that are deciding matches. yes, you can argue that
> >italy lost because they played poorly when it counted, blah blah etc...
but
> >every game they played had repeated controversial ref calls.
particularly
> >the first game where two goals were disallowed. and its not just
them...
> >most every team this world cup has either *profitted* or been
*victimized*
> >by bad calls.

> >you can argue that in the end all the calls "even out"... ie, the number
of
> >good calls vs. bad calls that go your way. but in my mind.... SOMETHING
has
> >to be done. its just not right at this level of competition for games to
be
> >decided not by the quality of the team, but by the sight-lines and
quality
> >of the ref.

> >how could video replay be used judiciously? any other alternatives?

> Yes. Ask players not to cheat.
> --

> Paul
> www.footballpyramid.co.uk

by **raciere ex** » Thu, 20 Jun 2002 02:37:53

but you forget why games have referees in the first place. if players could
be counted on to manage the game with total sportsmanship and fairness, you
wouldn't even need a ref... other than to possibly manage the time. its
just naive to say "ask players not to cheat".

look, in most every major global sport.... even here in america with
baseball, basketball, football (ie tackleball) you have players who are
going to push the margins of what is allowable.. take the NBA - you have
both fouls and flops... and players figure that into the strategy of the
game. same with football/soccer... players figure into the game how they
can push the margins to advance their team. sometimes those things are
overt... sometimes they are subtle or even accidental. so cheating and
pushing the margins are not ALWAYS the same. the players cannot be expected
to regulate this... since that is why you have referee's in the first place.

if you were to do video replay, you could set it up so a team had only 2
appeals to video, and ONLY on calls that occurred inside the box... ie,
goals and penalty shot plays.

and whether or not you think italy justifiably lost or not, or if other
teams were victimized or NOT, there is enough traffic and comments on it all
over the world to merit some sort of FIFA committee to look into possible
alternatives.

Quote:

> look.... something has to be done. there are just way too many
> controversial calls that are deciding matches. yes, you can argue that
> italy lost because they played poorly when it counted, blah blah etc...
but
> every game they played had repeated controversial ref calls. particularly
> the first game where two goals were disallowed. and its not just them...
> most every team this world cup has either *profitted* or been *victimized*
> by bad calls.

> you can argue that in the end all the calls "even out"... ie, the number
of
> good calls vs. bad calls that go your way. but in my mind.... SOMETHING
has
> to be done. its just not right at this level of competition for games to
be
> decided not by the quality of the team, but by the sight-lines and quality
> of the ref.

> how could video replay be used judiciously? any other alternatives?

by **astoog** » Thu, 20 Jun 2002 02:52:08

one thing that might help would be to have more officials on the ground.
At present, three officials cover 22 players scattered over an area of 110m
x 70m. In contrast, basketball has three officials watching 10 players on
an area not even 1/4 as large. Hockey has four officials on the ice, plus
two whose sole function is to determine if the puck crosses the goal line.
There should be at least two additional assitants along the lines. This
would allow closer observation of the entire pitch and of the action away
from the ball.

A more radical change would be to change the punishment for fouls somewhat.
One could punish repeated fouls, by a team or player, with a temporary
expulsion, as in hockey.

Nevertheless, of course, there will always be mistakes, and some of those
mistakes will affect outcomes...

Quote:

> look.... something has to be done. there are just way too many
> controversial calls that are deciding matches. yes, you can argue that
> italy lost because they played poorly when it counted, blah blah etc...
but
> every game they played had repeated controversial ref calls. particularly
> the first game where two goals were disallowed. and its not just them...
> most every team this world cup has either *profitted* or been *victimized*
> by bad calls.

> you can argue that in the end all the calls "even out"... ie, the number
of
> good calls vs. bad calls that go your way. but in my mind.... SOMETHING
has
> to be done. its just not right at this level of competition for games to
be
> decided not by the quality of the team, but by the sight-lines and quality
> of the ref.

> how could video replay be used judiciously? any other alternatives?

by **Lee Harri** » Thu, 20 Jun 2002 02:57:05

Quote:

> but you forget why games have referees in the first place. if players
could
> be counted on to manage the game with total sportsmanship and fairness,
you
> wouldn't even need a ref... other than to possibly manage the time. its
> just naive to say "ask players not to cheat".

referees exist in golf
but they are just there to clarify when a player is not sure

but i hear what you are saying
but the players have to then say its their own fault when things go awry.

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by **Michael Babya** » Thu, 20 Jun 2002 03:05:09

: Yes. Ask players not to cheat.

In the end, that's what it comes down to, isn't it? Our experience with
video replay here in the US has been mixed at best. Ultimately, the
players will have to decide either to play with honor or not. The
pressure to win and the billions of dollars at stake, however, make that
very unlikely.

Mike Babyak

by **Roger T & Heather B** » Thu, 20 Jun 2002 03:55:52

You could always go the "American" way of officiating that is used in
"American" "sports". Have more officials than players. ;-)

by **AnDa** » Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:01:14

Quote:

>look.... something has to be done. there are just way too many
>controversial calls that are deciding matches. yes, you can argue that
>italy lost because they played poorly when it counted, blah blah etc... but
>every game they played had repeated controversial ref calls. particularly
>the first game where two goals were disallowed. and its not just them...
>most every team this world cup has either *profitted* or been *victimized*
>by bad calls.

>you can argue that in the end all the calls "even out"... ie, the number of
>good calls vs. bad calls that go your way. but in my mind.... SOMETHING has
>to be done. its just not right at this level of competition for games to be
>decided not by the quality of the team, but by the sight-lines and quality
>of the ref.

>how could video replay be used judiciously? any other alternatives?

video is used at all international "truck and field" events,
why implementing it in the soccer is imposible ?

by **davro** » Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:41:47

Quote:

> look.... something has to be done. there are just way too many
> controversial calls that are deciding matches. yes, you can argue that
> italy lost because they played poorly when it counted, blah blah etc...
but
> every game they played had repeated controversial ref calls. particularly
> the first game where two goals were disallowed. and its not just them...
> most every team this world cup has either *profitted* or been *victimized*
> by bad calls.

> you can argue that in the end all the calls "even out"... ie, the number
of
> good calls vs. bad calls that go your way. but in my mind.... SOMETHING
has
> to be done. its just not right at this level of competition for games to
be
> decided not by the quality of the team, but by the sight-lines and quality
> of the ref.

> how could video replay be used judiciously? any other alternatives?

Simple , there are a team of people watching the same images that the
group of 6 or 7 pundits are watching in the TV studio.The ref is wearing
one of those miniature earpieces.If any of the "virtual linespeople" spot
anything that is clearly amiss they communicate this to the ref who deals
with it as he normally would.Since these 'Refs Assistants' aren't actually
running the line they can't be unduly influenced by the home crowd.
Whenever a goal is scored : if the airwaves are silent for 5 seconds
afterwards the goal stands - lets make it 10 for added tension.
Players know that they are being closely watched and the ref will be
able to wave cards with total confidence that he hasn't made a mistake.
As a result there will be less simulation and everyones happy -
except the Italians :-)

by **abc** » Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:29:38

I think they don't want to use video replays so that the game does not turn
into typical american sports (not a criticism) where there are a ton of
stoppages. The game would be too stop-start. I would use video replays to
review goals and confirm whether there was any foul or offside, etc. Other
than that, I wouldn't want video replays during the games.

Quote:

> > look.... something has to be done. there are just way too many
> > controversial calls that are deciding matches. yes, you can argue that
> > italy lost because they played poorly when it counted, blah blah etc...
> but
> > every game they played had repeated controversial ref calls.
particularly
> > the first game where two goals were disallowed. and its not just
them...
> > most every team this world cup has either *profitted* or been
*victimized*
> > by bad calls.

> > you can argue that in the end all the calls "even out"... ie, the number
> of
> > good calls vs. bad calls that go your way. but in my mind.... SOMETHING
> has
> > to be done. its just not right at this level of competition for games
to
> be
> > decided not by the quality of the team, but by the sight-lines and
quality
> > of the ref.

> > how could video replay be used judiciously? any other alternatives?

> Simple , there are a team of people watching the same images that the
> group of 6 or 7 pundits are watching in the TV studio.The ref is wearing
> one of those miniature earpieces.If any of the "virtual linespeople" spot
> anything that is clearly amiss they communicate this to the ref who deals
> with it as he normally would.Since these 'Refs Assistants' aren't actually
> running the line they can't be unduly influenced by the home crowd.
> Whenever a goal is scored : if the airwaves are silent for 5 seconds
> afterwards the goal stands - lets make it 10 for added tension.
> Players know that they are being closely watched and the ref will be
> able to wave cards with total confidence that he hasn't made a mistake.
> As a result there will be less simulation and everyones happy -
> except the Italians :-)

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