'Boro vs. Liverpool (Spoiler)

'Boro vs. Liverpool (Spoiler)

Post by jxime.. » Sun, 26 Nov 1995 04:00:00


'Boro escaped by the skin of their teeth in this one, which easily could have
gone to 'Boro in the first half (a dynamic, and skillful attacking one) or
to the Reds in the second half (due to a controversial yellow card given
the keeper, which frankly should have been red).

Juninho's through passes in the first forty-five were breathtaking as usual,
but he just peters out in the second-halves of each game. And his first
Premier League goal (to which he came closer than ever today) escapes him
as yet. Robson should play Barmby higher up, with Juninho and Fjortoft as
floating wingers. I caught Barmby ball-watching a few times endangering the
heavy mid-field attacking side which Liverpool is known for. The same could
be said of Juninho who, as mentioned, collapsed in the second-half, being
strangely ineffective against Robbie Fowler's challenges. (3 or 4 times this!)

I tend to agree with a previous match report, Collymore was horrible, but
I was impressed with Fowler, who ran after and got balls he lost...Evans
should be pleased with his determination, if not his finishing.

Did anyone catch Robbo's expression at the end of the match? It's a wonder
he didn't suit up for the closing minutes, when Liverpool was *red* hot.

Middlesbrough 2  Liverpool 1
Cox 2 Barmby 64  63 (Harkness, if memory serves)

at Cellnet Stadium, Middlesbrough.

Man of the match: Nick Barmby, for his deft touch and go-ahead goal.

 
 
 

'Boro vs. Liverpool (Spoiler)

Post by Frazer Worley, #909980 D » Sun, 26 Nov 1995 04:00:00

Quote:

>Juninho's through passes in the first forty-five were breathtaking as usual,
>but he just peters out in the second-halves of each game. And his first
>Premier League goal (to which he came closer than ever today) escapes him
>as yet. Robson should play Barmby higher up, with Juninho and Fjortoft as

  Saw an interview with Bergkamp on the telly - and he said he initially had
problems with the high pace of the British game. He said now though (more than
a third of the season gone) thats hes comfortable with it.

  I'm pretty sure it'd be the same thing for Juninho - South American soccer
generally a much slower game after all - he'll just need a few more matches and
training sessions to adjust.

Frazer

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'Boro vs. Liverpool (Spoiler)

Post by S Wre » Tue, 28 Nov 1995 04:00:00

Quote:
> 'Boro escaped by the skin of their teeth in this one, which easily could
> have gone to 'Boro in the first half (a dynamic, and skillful attacking
> one) or to the Reds in the second half (due to a controversial yellow
> card given the keeper, which frankly should have been red).

A few comments on the Boro Liverpool match (which I was at). I should
first of all admit to being a little bit of a Boro nut and thus am
probably NOT the most unbiased to write about this.

First half Boro were absolute magic. Roy Evans said he had never seen
Liverpool taken apart like they were in the first 20 minutes. Alan Hansen
(or was it Linekar?) said it could have been, and should have been I add,
an avalance to Boro in the first half. Roy Evans said it would have
needed an abacus to count the score had we had our shooting boots on!

Second half Liverpool pulled their socks up and battled hard but Boro
gave as good as they got until the last 10 minutes when Liverpool threw
some defenders up front and the Boro youngsters (there are many young
players in the team) paniced a bit and lost possession too easily!

As for the potential sending off of Walsh well it is a ***e to call.
Yes he handled the ball deliberatly outside of the box BUT this in itself
does not make it a sending off offence. It must also be a clear
goalscoring opportunity (normally refs take this as a situation where a
goal is very likly to be scored!). I myself am a ref and even I, after
watching several replays on TV, am not sure wether this is the case. TV
evidence shows that when he handled the shot there were, at least, 4 Boro
defenders between himself and the goal. It is likly that one of these
would have stopped the ball. Perhaps a more neutral ref who saw the match
on TV could give their interpretation of the incident!

Also on the subject of sendings off I feel there was another incident
which could (and should?) have resulted in the sending off of Phil Babb
for his foul on Juninho. At the time of the incident I felt that Babb was
the last man and thus bringing  Juninho down was a proffessional foul and
thus a red card would be in order. Watching it on TV it is a little less
clear. There was a covering Liverpool defender (Ruddock) closing in but I
think, based on what I saw on TV, that Ruddock would have had no chance
of making it across to intercept Juninhos run and hence Babb was the last
man. Again perhaps it is my Boro loyalty blinding me - perhaps that
neutral ref could rule on this decision too.

It shows what a clean match it was when the only two cards issued were
both for potential proffessional fouls. It makes a change from seeing 7
or 8 yellows thrown around for innocuous tackles in most matches this season!
I thought the ref had a good game!

Overall Boro certainly deserved the points based on the whole match BUT
it must be said that the last 10 minutes were a bit hairy to say the least!

Steve

 
 
 

'Boro vs. Liverpool (Spoiler)

Post by Huw Morr » Wed, 29 Nov 1995 04:00:00

[snip]

Quote:
> evidence shows that when he handled the shot there were, at least, 4 Boro
> defenders between himself and the goal. It is likly that one of these
> would have stopped the ball. Perhaps a more neutral ref who saw the match
> on TV could give their interpretation of the incident!

I'm a ref as well and I think the ref bottled it. Whether there were 4
defenders or not, Walsh deliberatly handled the ball in order to try and
prevent a goal. That is clearly serious foul play. If it's so obvious that
one of the other defenders would have prevented the goal, why did Walsh
handle the shot at all?

I don't recall the Babb incident so I can't comment on that.

Huw

--
"I want to be young and wild.  Then    []----------------------------------[]

 And then I want to be old and annoy   [] http://custard.bnsc.rl.ac.uk/~hm []
 people by pretending I'm deaf."       []----------------------------------[]

 
 
 

'Boro vs. Liverpool (Spoiler)

Post by S Wre » Wed, 29 Nov 1995 04:00:00

Quote:
> I'm a ref as well and I think the ref bottled it. Whether there were 4
> defenders or not, Walsh deliberatly handled the ball in order to try and
> prevent a goal. That is clearly serious foul play. If it's so obvious that
> one of the other defenders would have prevented the goal, why did Walsh
> handle the shot at all?

I think, if I recall correctly, that Walsh was back puddling frantically
to get in the box when the shot came in. Sure he handled the ball outside
of the box but he was only just outside the area (half a yard?). Perhaps
he thought he was in the area. There is no way he KNEW that he wasn't in
the area! He was watching the play not his feet!

I still reckon its a 50-50 call!

Steve

 
 
 

'Boro vs. Liverpool (Spoiler)

Post by Mr C C Keart » Thu, 30 Nov 1995 04:00:00

: [snip]
: > evidence shows that when he handled the shot there were, at least, 4 Boro
: > defenders between himself and the goal. It is likly that one of these
: > would have stopped the ball. Perhaps a more neutral ref who saw the match
: > on TV could give their interpretation of the incident!

: I'm a ref as well and I think the ref bottled it. Whether there were 4
: defenders or not, Walsh deliberatly handled the ball in order to try and
: prevent a goal. That is clearly serious foul play. If it's so obvious that
: one of the other defenders would have prevented the goal, why did Walsh
: handle the shot at all?

: Huw

There is no way that Gary Walsh should have been sent off. Serious foul
play is handling a shot outside the area that is goal bound or
fetching the bloke down in a one on one. by your logic if a player
is running down the wing in a normal attack and the attacker goes
past the defender who brings him down then the defender gets the red
card cos he is trying to stop a goal. i would hardly have called
the walsh situation a clear goal scoring oppertunity. you weren`t a ref
in the 94 world cup were you? :-)

neutral chris

 
 
 

'Boro vs. Liverpool (Spoiler)

Post by J R Shut » Fri, 01 Dec 1995 04:00:00

Quote:


> : [snip]
> : > evidence shows that when he handled the shot there were, at least, 4 Boro
> : > defenders between himself and the goal. It is likly that one of these
> : > would have stopped the ball. Perhaps a more neutral ref who saw the match
> : > on TV could give their interpretation of the incident!

> : I'm a ref as well and I think the ref bottled it. Whether there were 4
> : defenders or not, Walsh deliberatly handled the ball in order to try and
> : prevent a goal. That is clearly serious foul play. If it's so obvious that
> : one of the other defenders would have prevented the goal, why did Walsh
> : handle the shot at all?

> : Huw

> There is no way that Gary Walsh should have been sent off. Serious foul
> play is handling a shot outside the area that is goal bound or
> fetching the bloke down in a one on one. by your logic if a player
> is running down the wing in a normal attack and the attacker goes
> past the defender who brings him down then the defender gets the red
> card cos he is trying to stop a goal. i would hardly have called
> the walsh situation a clear goal scoring oppertunity. you weren`t a ref
> in the 94 world cup were you? :-)

> neutral chris

But wasn't there a new rule introduced recently for 'deliberate handball'
making it a sending off offence???  

Walsh's handball was quite deliberate.

 
 
 

'Boro vs. Liverpool (Spoiler)

Post by Dennis Battiscom » Sat, 02 Dec 1995 04:00:00

Quote:
>But wasn't there a new rule introduced recently for 'deliberate handball'
>making it a sending off offence???  

>Walsh's handball was quite deliberate.

Deliberate Handball is only a red card if the shot was goalbound.  There is NO
WAY that ball was going into the net.  A penalty yes, definitely, but the ref
was right to not send Walsh off.  Personally, I think it was not even
deliberate, as there were defenders behind him and he was backing into the
area, so I think he must have felt he was back in the area.  On the replay
you could see it was pretty close, so I can't blame him for doing it.  The ref
must have thought the same, 'coz Walsh stayed on the pitch.

D

 
 
 

'Boro vs. Liverpool (Spoiler)

Post by LA56 » Sat, 02 Dec 1995 04:00:00

Neutral Chris - SHUT IT YOU SOUTHERN IDIOT.
 
 
 

'Boro vs. Liverpool (Spoiler)

Post by S Wre » Sat, 02 Dec 1995 04:00:00

Quote:

> But wasn't there a new rule introduced recently for 'deliberate handball'
> making it a sending off offence???  

> Walsh's handball was quite deliberate.

Only when it stops a clear goalscoring opportunity!!

Otherwise every freekick for handball (and there are normally a couple per
match) would result in a sending off. Not intentional = no free kick!

S

 
 
 

'Boro vs. Liverpool (Spoiler)

Post by Mrs. S.C. Presla » Tue, 05 Dec 1995 04:00:00

: >But wasn't there a new rule introduced recently for 'deliberate handball'
: >making it a sending off offence???  
: >
: >Walsh's handball was quite deliberate.

: Deliberate Handball is only a red card if the shot was goalbound.  There is NO
: WAY that ball was going into the net.  A penalty yes, definitely, but the ref
: was right to not send Walsh off.  Personally, I think it was not even

Please tell me how a deliberate handball by a goalkeeper can result in
a penalty...

Think about it.

TaTa
San

: deliberate, as there were defenders behind him and he was backing into the
: area, so I think he must have felt he was back in the area.  On the replay
: you could see it was pretty close, so I can't blame him for doing it.  The ref
: must have thought the same, 'coz Walsh stayed on the pitch.

: D

 
 
 

'Boro vs. Liverpool (Spoiler)

Post by S Wre » Wed, 06 Dec 1995 04:00:00

Quote:
> Deliberate Handball is only a red card if the shot was goalbound.  There is NO
> WAY that ball was going into the net.  A penalty yes, definitely, but the ref
> was right to not send Walsh off.  Personally, I think it was not even

PENALTY?

For handball outside the area?

I think not!

S