Some More Questions ... [LONG !! LONG !! LONG !!]

Some More Questions ... [LONG !! LONG !! LONG !!]

Post by Timothy James Hatfie » Wed, 29 Apr 1992 22:08:32


Being a long-distance fan of European Football, and especially English Football,
from time to time I post some questions about all sorts of matters on the net
in the hope of getting some close-up, inside information. Now is another of
those times !! If you could e-mail me the answers to any of these questions, I'd
be very grateful ...

1. A BIG one to start off with - Re: Europe.

- What are the names of the 3 European club competitions ? [Aren't they the
  CHAMPIONS' CUP, the CUP-WINNERS' CUP, and the UEFA CUP ?]
- When people use the generic term "The European Cup", which one are they
  referring to ? [I presume "European Cup" = "Champions' Cup"]
- How do the "playoffs" work in each tournament ?
- Which competition is viewed as the most important/prized by the fans/players/
  coaches/media ? Which is seen as the least "valued" of the three ?
- How does European success rate (with players/fans/media etc.) compared to
  winning Division 1 or the FA Cup ? [By the way which IS valued more highly -
  League title or FA Cup ? I presume these are more highly "treasured" than
  the Rumbelows & Zenith Cups ... :-) ]
- Which English clubs are in the UEFA Cup this time ? Is it the top 3 in
  Division 1, or some other assortment ? Assuming it is the top 3, ie Leeds Utd,
  Man Utd, Sheff Wed, then does this mean that Leeds get to play in the
  Champions' Cup as well as the UEFA Cup ? [And that if a side managed to pull
  off the League-FA Cup double they would be in all 3 ?] Or can an English side
  only play in one European competition per season ?

2. Re: Second Division Promotion Playoffs.

After the 2-leg "semifinals" between 3&6, 4&5 in Division 2 (I presume that
these are home & away ties with the normal rules, eg. away goals used to
split a tie, etc.), is it just a "one-off" match at Wembley to decide the final
team to get promoted to Division 1 (sorry, Premier League ?) Assuming it is,
this would have to be a VERY big occasion for both sides ... will this game be
a sellout, with live TV coverage etc. ? Can this "promotion final" be decided
on a penalty shootout or will there be replays if necessary ? [By the way my
tip is Middlesborough to make the Premier League ...]

3. Re: A Certain Player Who Switched Sides.

Have Liverpool fans ever forgiven Michael Thomas ? [They certainly seemed to be
urging him on last Sunday ...]

4. Re: Recent History of the Division 1 Championship; M. Thomas.

In that classic match where Mr Thomas scored for Arsenal v Liverpool in the
dying seconds to win the League, if my memory serves me correctly that was
the SECOND goal in a 2-0 win for the Gunners. I presume the second goal was the
all-important one (not the fact that they were already winning the match) since
Arsenal needed a 2-goal margin to overhaul Liverpool on goal difference. Anyway,
what I want to ask is this: what decides who wins if two teams' points and goal
difference are the same ? Is it just goals FOR by each team ? What happens if
this is also the same ? [Yes I know it's unlikely but it COULD happen, and one
of these years it probably will ...] You see, during that famous match, the
commentators were implying that Liverpool were "safe", even though they were
losing, as long as they stayed only 1 goal behind. I presume this meant that
the points would now have been equal and Liverpool's goal difference 1 better
than Arsenal's ... so when the Gunners scored for the second time it must have
brought them level on goal difference. So then why did Arsenal win if it was
indeed all level like this ? Or have I got it all wrong ? Could someone please
explain all this to me ? [I sincerely hope this one does NOT degenerate into
a Liverpool-Arsenal flame war, particularly with one Liverpool supporter I can
think of ... ]

5. Re: Liverpool Preferences.

Most of the home fans at Anfield seemed MIGHTY chuffed when Liverpool stopped
Manchester United to give Leeds United the title. Does this mean that Liverpool
fans generally "like" Leeds a lot more than Man United ? [Or that they HATE
Man Utd a lot more than they hate Leeds ?  :-) ] Is it all to do with the Wars
of the Roses, ie. Liverpudlians (?) would much prefer to see a Yorkshire team
(eg. Leeds) win the title rather than a Lancashire one (eg. Man Utd), if
Liverpool cannot win it themselves ? [Liverpool IS a "Yorkshire" club, aren't
they ??]

6. Re: Liverpool's Stuff-up (?) in 1973.

Did Liverpool lose to Sunderland in the 1973 FA Cup Final ? Why would Leeds
fans not want this to happen again ? [I read on the net, just a little while
ago, of a Leeds fan praising his title-winning team (rightly so too), and
he ended by saying he wanted Liverpool to take the Cup so as "to avoid a
repeat of 1973". Why ?] Or is this just a simple case of a person
supporting more than one team ?

7. Re: Magic Goals of 1991/92.

Now that the action is all but over for another season, I thought it would be
fun for as many of you who feel like it to e-mail/post your best 3, 5, 50,
5000 etc. or however many "magic goals of the season". You know, the most
skilful, spectacular, dramatic, funny, lucky, unlucky, important, or stupid
goals you can think of - or whatever else makes them stick in the memory. Any
recollections/comments/consequences/additional info on any of the goals would
also be a lot of fun ...
As an example, here are a few of mine (mainly from the last few months of the
1st Division season, seeing as I can't remember all that far back ...) :-

        - Anders Limpar's 45m chip v Liverpool at Highbury. BRILLIANT !!
        - Lee Dixon's chip from a similar distance at Highbury, except
          unfortunately for him, he placed it perfectly over Dave Seaman :-)
          [Was it v Coventry ?]
        - Any Peter Beagery goal for Everton, after which at least 6 backflips
          are mandatory.
        - Eric Cantona's "special" at Elland Road v Chelsea.
        - Brian Deane's 40m chip over Bruce Grobelaar at Bramall Lane, after
          good old Brucie very uncharacteristically came charging way out of
          the box. :-)
        - Mark Walter's flying lunge v Manchester United which sealed the title
          for this year. THE DRAMATIC CLIMAX OF A WHOLE YEAR'S ENTERTAINMENT !!

        etc ...

I look forward to hearing from all you fanatics on this one ...

===============================================================================

Thanks to any of you who have made it this far, the end of this article ...
Like I said before, any e-mailed info on the above matters would be greatly
appreciated ...

===============================================================================

Tim Hatfield

MANCHESTER UNITED - EUROPE'S BEST TEAM FOR PLAYING UNDER PRESSURE  :-)
CONGRATULATIONS TO WILKO AND LEEDS UNITED, NOT TO MENTION THE *OWLS* ...
GO NOTTS COUNTY V LUTON ... LUTON TOWN, CRASH AND BURN !! (well they deserve to)

"If the season started 2 weeks ago, Mancester United would have been relegated"

        -- Me  :-)

 
 
 

Some More Questions ... [LONG !! LONG !! LONG !!]

Post by Asim Oma » Thu, 30 Apr 1992 02:13:04


Quote:

>Being a long-distance fan of European Football, and especially English Football,
>from time to time I post some questions about all sorts of matters on the net
>in the hope of getting some close-up, inside information. Now is another of
>those times !! If you could e-mail me the answers to any of these questions, I'd
>be very grateful ...

I will try to answer only those questions which I think I know and since I am not
sure, I will post it on the net so that somebody else could correct it.

Quote:
>1. A BIG one to start off with - Re: Europe.

>- What are the names of the 3 European club competitions ? [Aren't they the
>  CHAMPIONS' CUP, the CUP-WINNERS' CUP, and the UEFA CUP ?]
>- When people use the generic term "The European Cup", which one are they
>  referring to ? [I presume "European Cup" = "Champions' Cup"]

You are right with the above two.

Quote:
>- How do the "playoffs" work in each tournament ?

I guess till a couple of years ago, all the competitions had 2 legged rounds and
the final was played on a venue which was decided prior to the competition began
for that year. The UEFA final is an exception and they play a 2 legged final.
Now, the format of the European Cup has changed and since I am not that familiar,
I will let somebody else explain it.

Quote:
>- Which competition is viewed as the most important/prized by the fans/players/
>  coaches/media ? Which is seen as the least "valued" of the three ?

Obviously, the European Cup, since the league champions from each country enter
the tournament.

Quote:
>- How does European success rate (with players/fans/media etc.) compared to
>  winning Division 1 or the FA Cup ? [By the way which IS valued more highly -
>  League title or FA Cup ? I presume these are more highly "treasured" than
>  the Rumbelows & Zenith Cups ... :-) ]
>- Which English clubs are in the UEFA Cup this time ? Is it the top 3 in
>  Division 1, or some other assortment ? Assuming it is the top 3, ie Leeds Utd,
>  Man Utd, Sheff Wed, then does this mean that Leeds get to play in the
>  Champions' Cup as well as the UEFA Cup ? [And that if a side managed to pull
>  off the League-FA Cup double they would be in all 3 ?] Or can an English side
>  only play in one European competition per season ?

Leeds United are in the European Cup, Man. United and Sheffield W. in the UEFA
Cup and either Liverpool or Sunderland (depending who wins the FA CUP) will be in
the Cup Winnner's Cup. No team can enter more than one competition and if any
team does a double of the league and FA Cup, then the losin finalist of the FA
Cup are allowed in the Cup Winner's Cup.
Quote:

>4. Re: Recent History of the Division 1 Championship; M. Thomas.

>In that classic match where Mr Thomas scored for Arsenal v Liverpool in the
>dying seconds to win the League, if my memory serves me correctly that was
>the SECOND goal in a 2-0 win for the Gunners. I presume the second goal was the
>all-important one (not the fact that they were already winning the match) since
>Arsenal needed a 2-goal margin to overhaul Liverpool on goal difference. Anyway,
>what I want to ask is this: what decides who wins if two teams' points and goal
>difference are the same ? Is it just goals FOR by each team ? What happens if
>this is also the same ? [Yes I know it's unlikely but it COULD happen, and one
>of these years it probably will ...] You see, during that famous match, the
>commentators were implying that Liverpool were "safe", even though they were
>losing, as long as they stayed only 1 goal behind. I presume this meant that
>the points would now have been equal and Liverpool's goal difference 1 better
>than Arsenal's ... so when the Gunners scored for the second time it must have
>brought them level on goal difference. So then why did Arsenal win if it was
>indeed all level like this ? Or have I got it all wrong ? Could someone please
>explain all this to me ? [I sincerely hope this one does NOT degenerate into
>a Liverpool-Arsenal flame war, particularly with one Liverpool supporter I can
>think of ... ]

When Arsenal scored that crucial goal, their goal difference improved by one,
and at the same time Liverpool's goal difference reduced by one, so that goal
(infact each goal) in that match counted as double as regards the goal
difference concerning Liverpool and Arsenal.

Quote:
>5. Re: Liverpool Preferences.

>Most of the home fans at Anfield seemed MIGHTY chuffed when Liverpool stopped
>Manchester United to give Leeds United the title. Does this mean that Liverpool
>fans generally "like" Leeds a lot more than Man United ? [Or that they HATE
>Man Utd a lot more than they hate Leeds ?  :-) ] Is it all to do with the Wars
>of the Roses, ie. Liverpudlians (?) would much prefer to see a Yorkshire team
>(eg. Leeds) win the title rather than a Lancashire one (eg. Man Utd), if
>Liverpool cannot win it themselves ? [Liverpool IS a "Yorkshire" club, aren't
>they ??]

Their has been a rivalry between Liverpool and Man. United supporters for a long
time and I think that it has a lot to do with Man. United winning the FA Cup
final against Liverpool in 1977 and robbing Liverpool of the treble (i.e. League
Championship, European Cup and the FA Cup).

Quote:
>Tim Hatfield
>"If the season started 2 weeks ago, Mancester United would have been relegated"

Good point.
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Some More Questions ... [LONG !! LONG !! LONG !!]

Post by Jesper Laurids » Thu, 30 Apr 1992 06:35:34

Quote:


>>4. Re: Recent History of the Division 1 Championship; M. Thomas.

>>In that classic match where Mr Thomas scored for Arsenal v Liverpool in the
>>dying seconds to win the League, if my memory serves me correctly that was
>>the SECOND goal in a 2-0 win for the Gunners. I presume the second goal was the
>>all-important one (not the fact that they were already winning the match) since
>>Arsenal needed a 2-goal margin to overhaul Liverpool on goal difference. Anyway,
>>what I want to ask is this: what decides who wins if two teams' points and goal
>>difference are the same ? Is it just goals FOR by each team ? What happens if
>>this is also the same ? [Yes I know it's unlikely but it COULD happen, and one
>>of these years it probably will ...]
>When Arsenal scored that crucial goal, their goal difference improved by one,
>and at the same time Liverpool's goal difference reduced by one, so that goal
>(infact each goal) in that match counted as double as regards the goal
>difference concerning Liverpool and Arsenal.

Arsenal did NOT have a better goaldifference than Liverpool. They had exactly
the same goaldifference. Arsenal was then given the championship because
they had scored more goals. You can't loose a double with a smaller margin,
can you?
--
Der er nu kun 240 dage til jul....

 
 
 

Some More Questions ... [LONG !! LONG !! LONG !!]

Post by Jos Coen » Thu, 30 Apr 1992 16:58:26


[stuff deleted]
Quote:

> 1. A BIG one to start off with - Re: Europe.

> - What are the names of the 3 European club competitions ? [Aren't they the
>   CHAMPIONS' CUP, the CUP-WINNERS' CUP, and the UEFA CUP ?]

Yes, but sometimes they 're just numbered
EC1 = Champion's cup, EC2 = Cup-winners cup, EC3 = UEFA cup (or runners-up cup)
Quote:
> - When people use the generic term "The European Cup", which one are they
>   referring to ? [I presume "European Cup" = "Champions' Cup"]

Yes, or just one of the cups. If you say `qualify for the european cup' you probably
mean qualifying for one of the European cups.
Quote:
> - How do the "playoffs" work in each tournament ?

The UEFA cup has 6 KO-rounds (the 6th being the finals)
The Cup-winners cup has 4 Ko rounds and a single final.
The Champion's cup used to be played as ethe Cup-winners cup, but this and next year
it is as follows.
First there are 2 KO-rounds. The remaining 8 teams are splitted in two groups.
The teams in aech group play a complete cometition. The group winners
play a single final. (BTW strong teams can get priviliges, so that it's unlikely
they draw each other in the first two KO rounds).
Quote:
> - Which competition is viewed as the most important/prized by the fans/players/
>   coaches/media ? Which is seen as the least "valued" of the three ?

Definitely the Champion's cup
Quote:
> - How does European success rate (with players/fans/media etc.) compared to
>   winning Division 1 or the FA Cup ? [By the way which IS valued more highly -
>   League title or FA Cup ? I presume these are more highly "treasured" than
>   the Rumbelows & Zenith Cups ... :-) ]

From the Dutch viewpoint I'd say:
1. The champion's cup and league championship
2. UEFA and Cup-winners cup
3. Dutch FA cup
Quote:
> - Which English clubs are in the UEFA Cup this time ? Is it the top 3 in
>   Division 1, or some other assortment ? Assuming it is the top 3, ie Leeds Utd,
>   Man Utd, Sheff Wed, then does this mean that Leeds get to play in the
>   Champions' Cup as well as the UEFA Cup ? [And that if a side managed to pull
>   off the League-FA Cup double they would be in all 3 ?] Or can an English side
>   only play in one European competition per season ?

A team can only play in one European cup. A team can only play the UEFA cup if it
didn't qualify for the other European cups. It can only play the cup-winners cup
if it didn't qualify for the champion's cup.

A team qualifies for the champion's cup if it's league champion or the current
champion's-cup defender.

A team qualifies for the cup-winners cup if it wins the FA-cup,  or if it is
the cup-winners cup defender, or if it is the FA-cup finalist and the other
finalist alreday qualified for the champion's cup.

A team qualifies for the UEFA cup if it runner-up in the league (the number of
runner's up for each league is determined by a ranking list). There are some
exceptions: eg in England also the league cup winner qualifies for the UEFA-cup.
[more deleted]

Jos