WC in United States: probable stadia & fan (read: fun) behavior

WC in United States: probable stadia & fan (read: fun) behavior

Post by Marek Lugows » Sun, 08 Jul 1990 23:54:37


This I remember from newspaper traffic in Dallas from 2 years ago:

A FIFA delegation visited several eagerly tongue-out-pretty-please-would-
you-wouldja-please-select-me stadia in 1986.  They include:

Cotton Bowl, Dallas
Orange Bowl, Miami
Stanford Stadium, San Francisco (1st order approx, pal...)
University of Michigan at Ann Arbor, Detroit
Harvard Stadium, Boston
Rose Bowl, San Francisco
Olympic Stadium, Los Angelese
Bronco Bowl, Denver
Shea Stadium, New York City
Soldiers' Field, Chicago
Bush Stadium/Washington University (2 facilities), St. Louis
Arrowhead Stadium, Kansas City
Ohio State University football stadium, Greater Cincinnati (smirk)

Some of these places may have astro, I don't recall, but at least one with
astro said it would put in grass for FIFA!  Don't remember which one.  Is
that, like, temporary sanity, profit motivated, or suburban style 2-inches?...

Thre are others, but I forgot them.  Maybe Rutherford and Cornell, both
Eastern Pennsylvania (smirking...).

Are these good stadia?  Every one of them meets or exceeds 90% of the stadia
used before for capacity and all 100% are superior with respect to parking
(smirk) and hot dogs (double smirk).  The United States has the best athletic
facilties in futball int he world, Brazil included.  I am serious.  Ever
seen the movie True Stories?  I mean the construction angle in it...

Fans: I don't knwo what you snotty Europeans think about us Americans
(wowo, how luxurious of me, Warsaw, Poland, 1959) but us 'mericans
even come out in force to see your lousier scummier teams play badly
for lots of money here, as in Manchester United vs. Santos, and
suddenly we all have drums or at least Union Jacks and smile and talk
manically and scream AT THE LINESMEN (we know who they are and why
they are out there, really!: to dissallow good goals and overlook bad
ones, in accordance with local custom and arrangements and or
perception) and then we claim to be English or at least Argentinian
(smirk) as oppose to Cubs or Reds as we do at all other times.  Add to
that our fathers and mothers who actually HAVE that Eintracht : Real
game emblazoned on their cortex from the little balck and white TV in
the Old-Country those many years ago and are fiercely and fearsomely
ON TOP OF THE LATEST OFF SIDE RULE and have been so for the last 37
years... and waiting for htis moment to remember their youth.

So.  Bug off.  America is a great place to host WC and we will show you,
just come on down.  An Italian national team playing against West Germany
in Brooklyn is in Italy as is (by then) Germany.  Best of both worlds, and
afterwards you can have the best Chinese/French/Ethiopian food on the planet.

Nuff said.  Come on down and leave them hooligans in the car.  Someone has
to protect the radio in the caaah from the business-minded 'mericans who
just sold you the ticket int eh parking lot...

                                -- Marek

   claimer:  the above is 100% factual.

 
 
 

WC in United States: probable stadia & fan (read: fun) behavior

Post by Miguel A. Ramir » Mon, 09 Jul 1990 06:20:21

Quote:

>This I remember from newspaper traffic in Dallas from 2 years ago:
>A FIFA delegation visited several eagerly tongue-out-pretty-please-would-
>you-wouldja-please-select-me stadia in 1986.  They include:

>Cotton Bowl, Dallas
>Orange Bowl, Miami
>Stanford Stadium, San Francisco (1st order approx, pal...)
>University of Michigan at Ann Arbor, Detroit
>Harvard Stadium, Boston
>Rose Bowl, San Francisco

            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
SURELY YOU MEANT, PASADENA. WOULDN'T WANT TO GIVE OUR FUTURE VISITORS A BUM TIP.

Quote:
>Olympic Stadium, Los Angelese
>Bronco Bowl, Denver
>Shea Stadium, New York City
>Soldiers' Field, Chicago
>Bush Stadium/Washington University (2 facilities), St. Louis
>Arrowhead Stadium, Kansas City
>Ohio State University football stadium, Greater Cincinnati (smirk)

>Some of these places may have astro, I don't recall, but at least one with
>astro said it would put in grass for FIFA!  Don't remember which one.  Is
>that, like, temporary sanity, profit motivated, or suburban style 2-inches?...

Domed stadia with grass? Hum, might make a nice toxic waste dump. I have a
friend who's an agricultural engineer, I'll ask him how much chemicals are
needed to keep grass alive for one month indoors.

--

Miguel A. Ramirez
Sanctions against South Africa- now more than ever!
one man one vote OR one settler one bullet.

 
 
 

WC in United States: probable stadia & fan (read: fun) behavior

Post by Brian Becht » Mon, 09 Jul 1990 07:45:20

Quote:

>This I remember from newspaper traffic in Dallas from 2 years ago:
>A FIFA delegation visited several eagerly tongue-out-pretty-please-would-
>you-wouldja-please-select-me stadia in 1986.  They include:
>Stanford Stadium, San Francisco (1st order approx, pal...)

Seats roughly 93,000.  Grass.  Used in 1984 Olympics.

Quote:
>Rose Bowl, San Francisco

            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nope. Los Angeles.  Pasadena is roughly 20km from downtown Los Angeles.
Seats roughly 103,000.  Grass.  Used in 1984 Olympics.

Quote:
>Olympic Stadium, Los Angeles

Seats roughly 97,000. Grass.

All of these sites, like the stadium in Bari used for many of this
Cup's games, have a track encircling the pitch.  In fact, I'd guess
that most stadiums in the USA have a track as well.

Los Angeles and San Francisco are roughly 600 km distant from each
other.  



 
 
 

WC in United States: probable stadia & fan (read: fun) behavior

Post by Marek Lugows » Mon, 09 Jul 1990 08:32:22

so sorry about misdirecting traffic away from the City of Angels, re: Rose
Bowl.  It was a real lapse of memory, not a typo.  After all, Indiana U.
has not been to Rose Bown since '67 so we kind of forget...

Pertaining to domed stadia and astroturf:  I know that none of the listed
stadia are domed, and memory fails me if any domed ones are in the
running.  Maybe so.  As for tracks around the playing field, the baseball
fields won't have those and Harvard Stadium and Cotton Bowl don't have
them.

I am almost sure that Cotton Bowl was a major contender and that the final
was rumored for California.

                                -- Marek

P.s.  Saint Louis, Chicago, NYC, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Miami, Boston
        and Dallas are most probable from the ethnic sentiment viewpoint,
        and local soccer culture.  Watch Texas get one site for sure (Austin,
        Houston, Dallas are trying).  Personally, I'd like to see Ann Arbor's
        Stadium for once filled with less clashing colors (smirk)...

 
 
 

WC in United States: probable stadia & fan (read: fun) behavior

Post by Michael Waug » Wed, 11 Jul 1990 06:35:30


Quote:
>This I remember from newspaper traffic in Dallas from 2 years ago:
>A FIFA delegation visited several eagerly tongue-out-pretty-please-would-
>you-wouldja-please-select-me stadia in 1986.  They include:

I'll add which are astro-turf and other comments

Quote:
>Cotton Bowl, Dallas, Texas

Astro-turf

Quote:
>Orange Bowl, Miami, Florida

Natural Grass, but newer Joe Robie Stadium may be a better choice

Quote:
>Stanford Stadium, San Francisco, California(1st order approx, pal...)

Natural Grass

Quote:
>University of Michigan at Ann Arbor, Detroit, Michigan

Being a University of Michigan graduate, let me state that the stadium
is not in Detroit, but Ann Arbor a good 50 miles outside of Detroit.
Also, this is the second largest stadium in the country with a capacity
of 101,701, but has Astro-turf.  The University has already stated that
they are not going to replace the Astro-turf and do other modifications
for world-football/soccer.  Looks like no WC in Ann Arbor.

Quote:
>Harvard Stadium, Boston, Massachusetts

? Don't know anything about it.

Quote:
>Rose Bowl, San Francisco, California

Actually it is in Pasadena, and is much closer to Los Angeles than
San Francisco.  Largest stadium in the country (103,000+) and has
natural grass.

Quote:
>Olympic Stadium, Los Angeles, California

Natural Grass.

Quote:
>Bronco Bowl, Denver, Colorado

Actually the name of the stadium is Mile High Stadium.  It has
natural grass.  Might run into problems with a minor league
baseball team who plays at Mile High.

Quote:
>Shea Stadium, New York City, New York

Natural grass, may run into problems with the NY Mets baseball
team who plays there.

Quote:
>Soldiers' Field, Chicago, Illinois

Recently changed from Astro-turf to Natural Grass.

Quote:
>Bush Stadium/Washington University (2 facilities), St. Louis, Missouri

Busch Stadium is Astro-turf, and may run into problems with the
St. Louis Cardinals baseball team who plays there.
Don't know about Washington University.

Quote:
>Arrowhead Stadium, Kansas City, Missouri

This is the stadium that said they would convert from Astro-turf
to natural grass for FIFA.

Quote:
>Ohio State University football stadium, Greater Cincinnati, Ohio (smirk)

This stadium was recently converted to natural grass.

Some other large natural grass stadiums that come to mind:

Jack Murphy Stadium, San Diego, California.  May run into problems with the
San Diego Padres baseball team.

Cleveland Municipal Stadium, Cleveland, Ohio.  May run into problems with
the Cleveland Indians baseball team.

RFK Stadium, Washington D.C.

Gator Bowl, Jacksonville, Florida.

Liberty Bowl, Memphis, Tennessee.

Tampa Stadium, Tampa, Florida.

Mike Waughn
----------

 
 
 

WC in United States: probable stadia & fan (read: fun) behavior

Post by Richard E. Gord » Thu, 12 Jul 1990 03:11:59

Marek listed a bunch of possible stadia for '94.  Here are my
recollections re: grass/turf and a few other comments.  Please
correct my comments if any of them are inaccurate!

Quote:
>Cotton Bowl, Dallas

Turf.  Out.

Quote:
>Orange Bowl, Miami

Grass.  Could be some classics at the Orange Bowl.  Have to be
night or morning games due to heat, I'd imagine.

Quote:
>Stanford Stadium, San Francisco (1st order approx, pal...)

grass.  Really Palo Alto, right?

Quote:
>University of Michigan at Ann Arbor,

grass.  How hard to get there from Detroit?  I don't know these
things....

Quote:
>Harvard Stadium, Boston

grass, but smallish

Quote:
>Rose Bowl, San Francisco

grass--Pasadena.  Another classic site!  But 8-10 hours behind
European time.  Tough to schedule to keep European TV happy.
Same goes for other West Coast sites!

Quote:
>Olympic Stadium, Los Angelese

grass

Quote:
>Bronco Bowl, Denver

y'mean Mile High Stadium?  Grass

Quote:
>Shea Stadium, New York City

grass.  what about the mets?

Quote:
>Soldiers' Field, Chicago

grass.  Is the field area wide enough for an assoc. football
pitch?

Quote:
>Bush Stadium/Washington University (2 facilities), St. Louis

Busch has turf (out).  Wash. U has grass but is small.  Nice of them
to consider one of the few places where amateur soccer was
important in the 50's, 60's, and 70's.  Chicago and St. Louis
would make a nice pair of cities for an early group.

Quote:
>Arrowhead Stadium, Kansas City

Turf.  Out.

Quote:
>Ohio State University football stadium, Columbus

turf?  If so, out.

Don't forget the Yale Bowl in New Haven, CT.  The place was
packed for some exhibitions prior to team USA departing for
ignomious defeat in Italia!  Franklin Field in Philly is another
possibility.  JFK would have been a possibility if it hadn't
been condemned just before last summer's Rolling Stones tour was
scheduled to use it!  (switched to Veteran's Stadium [turf].)
Are there any suitable fields in the Milwaukee area?  Baltimore?
These two cities, like St. Louis, used to be pretty serious
amateur soccer towns when the rest of the US was ignoring the sport.

On another note, this year's WC had one very important effect:  it
introduced my wife to the sport!   I wonder if the '94 WC would go
better if FIFA ordered refs to call penalties on ALL the fouls in the
area and ordered refs to show Yellow cards to all the friggin'
thespians.  I'm glad US folk new to the sport (like my wife!) got to
see Germany vs.  England, Cameroon vs. England, Germany vs. Holland,
and some of the other very good games.  If all that had been broadcast
to the US was that icky final match, no new fans would have been won
over!  The US soccer federation has its marketing work cut out for it
if it wants good US fan support for WC'94!
--



(302) 451-1717                         or  c/o the Plywood Cattle Co.

 
 
 

WC in United States: probable stadia & fan (read: fun) behavior

Post by Jon Granth » Thu, 12 Jul 1990 06:19:35


   >University of Michigan at Ann Arbor,
   grass.  How hard to get there from Detroit?  I don't know these
   things....

Well, I happen to, for some strange reason.  ;-)
Actually, astroturf, but we'd love to put grass in.  The question is:  who
pays?  The World Cup probably won't want to.  The University doesn't want to;
it says the city should pay since the city will get the tourism.  The city,
as far as I remember, is hemming & hawing.  Also, I think there's something
about the field having to be lowered, but I don't remember where I heard that.

Ann Arbor is really easy to get to from Detroit in under an hour; I do so
often to get to the airport.  Detroit, as you may remember is adjacent
to Windsor, which is in a country with a far higher proportion of "soccer"
fans than this one.

Ann Arbor would be a great place to have some matches (stadium:  in excess of
100,000), but I wish these people would stop arguing about who is going to
pay & start shelling out the $$!  (-:

Jon
--

 
 
 

WC in United States: probable stadia & fan (read: fun) behavior

Post by Miu Wa » Fri, 13 Jul 1990 01:05:24

One thing most people seem to have forgotten is that 'Merkin "football" fields
(not pitches or grounds, since we're talking the local dialect here :-)) are a
bit narrow: the regulation width is only 50 yards.  If you have watched real
football at Spartan Stadium in the good old days of the Earthquakes, you can
see what I mean.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Miu Wang      415-867-6476
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This space provided by permission of the Minister of Disinformation...... :-)

 
 
 

WC in United States: probable stadia & fan (read: fun) behavior

Post by Curtis Hi » Fri, 13 Jul 1990 03:25:52


Quote:
>Marek listed a bunch of possible stadia for '94.  Here are my
>recollections re: grass/turf and a few other comments.  Please
>correct my comments if any of them are inaccurate!

>>Cotton Bowl, Dallas
>Turf.  Out.

Turf is in.  Well, grass covered turf.  It can be done and will.
Hopefully, Texas will be avoided in August.  Remember, most games
will be played in the afternoon to provide primetime European feeds.
Playing from 2 to 5 pm in Dallas would be, well, stupid.

Quote:
>>Orange Bowl, Miami
>Grass.  Could be some classics at the Orange Bowl.  Have to be
>night or morning games due to heat, I'd imagine.

Joe Robbie Statium.  Awesome.  State of the Art.  Almost a lock for
the finals.

Quote:
>>University of Michigan at Ann Arbor,
>grass.  How hard to get there from Detroit?  I don't know these
>things....

It's turf.  Cover it with grass and you've got a 100,000 seat bowl.
Might be too big.  Maybe the SilverDome would be a better choice,
coupled with the new Cleveland Stadium (completion in 1993).

And, folks, do you think you'd see much hooliganism in downtown Detroit?
Me thinks not.

Quote:
>>Harvard Stadium, Boston
>grass, but smallish

Maybe not too small, but I don't know the size.  40,000 would seem to be
a minimum.

Quote:
>>Rose Bowl, San Francisco
>grass--Pasadena.  Another classic site!  But 8-10 hours behind
>European time.  Tough to schedule to keep European TV happy.
>Same goes for other West Coast sites!

Lots of places to play in California.  Problem is baseball.  No trouble
with Palo Alto and the Rose Bowl, but other places could cause difficulties.
However, San Francisco and LA could just about host the whole thing if
necessary.

Quote:
>>Bronco Bowl, Denver
>y'mean Mile High Stadium?  Grass

Altitude.  Altitude.  Altitude.

Quote:
>>Bush Stadium/Washington University (2 facilities), St. Louis
>Busch has turf (out).  Wash. U has grass but is small.  Nice of them
>to consider one of the few places where amateur soccer was
>important in the 50's, 60's, and 70's.  Chicago and St. Louis
>would make a nice pair of cities for an early group.

There will be a new dome in St. Louis by 94.  I would say that games
in Kansas City and St. Louis are a lock.  George Toma, the Kansas City
groundskeeper, is a Genius.  I believe it was his idea to put grass on
turf.  The Kansas City site would be first rate, and I have no reason
to doubt the new St. Louis site (or using Busch, since it will be empty
(if it doesn't get destroyed) would be a problem.

Look for Chicago and Milwaukee as a more likely pair. Strong European
immigrant support in these communities.

C***te - Raleigh/Durham North Carolina.

Plenty of support, plenty of stadiums, including a new one in C***te
by '94.

There are just stadiums everywhere.  Finding sites shouldn't be a
problem.  Picking sites so local interest will fill the stands will
be the important issue.

Imagine the number of (almost)new stadiums that could be used, none built for
soccer!

 
 
 

WC in United States: probable stadia & fan (read: fun) behavior

Post by Richard E. Gord » Fri, 13 Jul 1990 05:44:58

the width was one thing I asked about in an earlier posting.
This week's newsweek claims that only Joe Robbie stadium in
Miami currently has a wide-enough pitch.  I was surprised by
that statement.  Anyone know if that is really true?
--



(302) 451-1717                         or  c/o the Plywood Cattle Co.
 
 
 

WC in United States: probable stadia & fan (read: fun) behavior

Post by Robert Kin » Fri, 13 Jul 1990 08:10:00


Quote:
>the width was one thing I asked about in an earlier posting.
>This week's newsweek claims that only Joe Robbie stadium in
>Miami currently has a wide-enough pitch.  I was surprised by
>that statement.  Anyone know if that is really true?
>--

Not the only one, but a good point.  American football stadia (we say
stadiums) are narrow.  The playing area is some 60 yards wide (from
memory), and frequently either running tracks or dugout structures are
placed very close to the sideline.  Nothing like the pitches in Italy,
where there is significant space between the pitch and the stands.  Just
one of many problems that have yet to be addressed.  1994 will be here
sooner than the organizers realize.
 
 
 

WC in United States: probable stadia & fan (read: fun) behavior

Post by Colin Morr » Sat, 14 Jul 1990 02:23:50

Quote:


>>the width was one thing I asked about in an earlier posting.
>>This week's newsweek claims that only Joe Robbie stadium in
>>Miami currently has a wide-enough pitch.  I was surprised by
>>that statement.  Anyone know if that is really true?

>That's not true. LA Colliseum, and others that have a 400 metre
>track around the field should be wide enough. Joe Robbie was
>designed to hold baseball games, so it is definitely wide enough.

I know it's true of a lot of American Football stadia. I heard
Meadowlands, N.J. would have had to raise the field to get a wide enough
pitch.

Quote:
>It is unfortunate that other stadiums that can hold baseball
>as well as football are unlikely to be available due to the
>baseball season; otherwise field dimensions will be a non-issue.

I'm not sure this is unfortunate. Most (but not all) baseball stadia are
really not that suitable for hosting sports that require a rectangular
playing area. The stands naturally follow the contours of the baseball
field. Look, for example, at how ugly the American Football
configuration is at a place like Candlestick park, complete with
temporary stands in one place in front of those used for baseball
crowds.

--

Ingres Corp.,
Alameda, California.                 Official Hooligan, Italia '90

 
 
 

WC in United States: probable stadia & fan (read: fun) behavior

Post by Peter Freem » Sat, 14 Jul 1990 00:47:28

Quote:
> I definitely see the Rose Bowl as being a problem -- it is too
> narrow. In fact any bowl-shaped football stadium is a bad
> candidate. On the other hand, a place like Stanford is
> crucial (I still don't know if the university has decided on
> its availabity). It has a full-sized pitch thanks to the running
> track.
> --


> Haas GSB, UC Berkeley                UUCP: ucbvax!ux5.lbl.gov!gunadhi

Once upon a time, I went to games at the Rose Bowl when the the long
forgotten L.A. Aztecs of the almost long forgotten NASL :-) played
there.  But if I remember correctly, the sidelines were pretty snug
against the side walls, leaving very little room for benches et al.
It would not look like the typical football pitch, in that there definitely
is not enough room for the advertising boards which this 'Merkin believes
are a required part of every stadium.  Oh well, the American coverage
will make up for this with commercials :-((.

The Rose Bowl would be a great place for the finals, except games would
have to start at 11ish to satisfy those European audiences which demand
that games be shown in prime time (god, us 'Merkins would never control
TV coverage like that...?!?!).

And you Brits (oops...English, I have learned something from Morna!),
you should probably get your plane tickets to L.A., because they'll
probably put (re: fix) the English team in the L.A. Coliseum, so that
the Crips and the ***s can show the Hooliganes Inglese what real
hooliganism is.

:-)
Peter

P.S.  For those going "Who the heck are the Crips and ***s?", they are
the two most famous L.A. street gangs, based probably just south and to
the west of the the Coliseum.

 
 
 

WC in United States: probable stadia & fan (read: fun) behavior

Post by Himawan Gunad » Fri, 13 Jul 1990 14:53:02


Quote:
>the width was one thing I asked about in an earlier posting.
>This week's newsweek claims that only Joe Robbie stadium in
>Miami currently has a wide-enough pitch.  I was surprised by
>that statement.  Anyone know if that is really true?

That's not true. LA Colliseum, and others that have a 400 metre
track around the field should be wide enough. Joe Robbie was
designed to hold baseball games, so it is definitely wide enough.
It is unfortunate that other stadiums that can hold baseball
as well as football are unlikely to be available due to the
baseball season; otherwise field dimensions will be a non-issue.

I definitely see the Rose Bowl as being a problem -- it is too
narrow. In fact any bowl-shaped football stadium is a bad
candidate. On the other hand, a place like Stanford is
crucial (I still don't know if the university has decided on
its availabity). It has a full-sized pitch thanks to the running
track.
--


Haas GSB, UC Berkeley                UUCP: ucbvax!ux5.lbl.gov!gunadhi