Final English Standings 96/97 Season.

Final English Standings 96/97 Season.

Post by John Willia » Mon, 19 May 1997 04:00:00


With just one league game remaining, between runaway Division 4 champions
Newbury and bottom side Askeans, the English domestic season has ended with
the final promotion/relegation issue decided. Exeter's win at Reading means
disappointment for big spending Leeds (director of rugby ex-Welsh
backrow/lock Phil Davies).

The division one/two play-offs were decided in favour of the division one
sides, London Irish defeating Coventry on points aggregate and Bristol
beating Bedford in both games.

Courage League Division One.
===========================

                      P  W  D  L    F    A  Pts
Wasps                22 18  1  3  685  406   37
Bath                 22 15  1  6  863  411   31
Harlequins           22 15  0  7  745  416   30
Leicester            22 14  1  7  600  395   29
Sale                 22 13  2  7  603  525   28
Saracens             22 12  1  9  568  449   25
Gloucester           22 11  1 10  476  589   23
Northampton          22 10  0 12  515  477   20
Bristol              22  8  1 13  432  625   17
London Irish         22  6  0 16  502  747   12
West Hartlepool      22  3  0 19  382  795    6
Orrell               22  3  0 19  350  886    6

Courage League Division Two.
===========================

                      P  W  D  L    F    A  Pts
Richmond             22 19  2  1  986  410   40
Newcastle            22 19  1  2 1255  346   39
Coventry             22 16  1  5  738  394   33
Bedford              22 15  0  7  720  482   30
London Scottish      22 11  0 11  549  568   22
Wakefield            22 11  0 11  504  557   22
Rotherham            22 10  0 12  525  661   20
Moseley              22  9  0 13  492  741   18
Waterloo             22  8  0 14  506  661   16
Blackheath           22  7  0 15  412  641   14
Rugby                22  3  0 19  317 1060    6
Nottingham           22  2  0 20  344  827    4

Courage League Division Three.
=============================

Harrogate (21) 44 Liverpool St Helens (7) 14
Morley (45) 78 Walsall (0) 19
Reading (3) 3 Exeter (7) 13
Rosslyn Park (25) 28 Wharfedale (7) 21

                      P  W  D  L    F    A  Pts
Exeter               30 25  0  5  923  443   50
Fylde                30 24  1  5  813  439   49
Leeds                30 24  0  6 1209  432   48
Morley               30 22  0  8  928  572   44
Harrogate            30 18  0 12  832  599   36
Reading              30 17  1 12  869  631   35
Wharfedale           30 17  0 13  710  635   34
Rosslyn Park         30 17  0 13  630  620   34
Otley                30 13  0 17  720  766   26
Lydney               30 13  0 17  668  766   26
London Welsh         30 12  0 18  634  777   24
Liverpool St Helens  30  9  0 21  665  827   18
Walsall              30  8  0 22  640  980   16
Havant               30  8  0 22  580  954   16
Redruth              30  8  0 22  565 1116   16
Clifton              30  4  0 26  518 1347    8

Courage League Division Four North.
==================================

Sheffield 37 Aspatria 17

                      P  W  D  L    F    A  Pts
Worcester            26 23  3  0  833  378   49
Birmingham/Solihull  26 19  0  7  746  391   38
Preston Grasshoppers 26 17  2  7  568  394   36
Manchester           26 17  1  8  795  504   35
Sandal               26 15  1 10  618  572   31
Stourbridge          26 14  1 11  704  579   29
Winnington Park      26 14  1 11  651  565   29
Sheffield            26 11  2 13  486  483   24
Kendal               26 11  1 14  541  451   23
Aspatria             26 10  1 15  616  713   21
Lichfield            26 10  0 16  546  713   20
Nuneaton             26  8  1 17  457  670   17
Hereford             26  4  0 22  287  972    8
Stoke-on-Trent       26  2  0 24  391  854    4

Courage League Division Four South.
==================================

                      P  W  D  L    F    A  Pts
Newbury              25 25  0  0 1170  295   50
Henley               26 20  2  4  768  456   42
Barking              26 16  1  9  740  496   33
Camberley            26 15  2  9  688  513   32
Cheltenham           26 15  2  9  559  420   32
Plymouth             26 13  3 10  709  591   29
Met Police           26 14  1 11  659  558   29
Tabard               26 10  3 13  511  557   23
Weston-S-Mare        26 11  0 15  482  515   22
North Walsham        26 10  1 15  426  604   21
Berry Hill           26 10  0 16  425  643   20
High Wycombe         26  8  1 17  560  707   17
Charlton Park        26  3  1 22  351 1140    7
Askeans              25  2  1 22  340  893    5

All the best


 
 
 

Final English Standings 96/97 Season.

Post by Ben Cle » Mon, 19 May 1997 04:00:00


<<stuff deleted>>

Quote:
>Exeter's win at Reading means
>disappointment for big spending Leeds (director of rugby ex-Welsh
>backrow/lock Phil Davies).

The failure of Davies at Leeds is quite a surprise. I thought with the
resources put at his disposal, and his apparent leadership ability, he
would have assembled a team capable of getting out of division 3. Seems
like Llanelli might not be so disappointed he chose to move on after all.

Still Phil Davies isn't the only Welshman who might be glad this season is
over and will hope for a change of fortune next time around.

Mark Ring and his legion of Welsh imports sank virtually without a trace at
West Hartlepool -- will any be back next year with Mike Brewer in charge?

The Llewellyn brothers failed to add the supposed steel to the Harlequins
pack and once again the club end the year empty handed -- will whoever
takes over at Harlequins consider the pair worth their money?

Mike Griffiths at least was part of the title winning team at Wasps -- but
played second fiddle to young props Green and Molloy [still he did better
than Wasps other Welsh signing, Matthew Lewis, who proved surplus to
requirements even before the season really got going] -- will Griffiths be
asked to save himself the drive from Ystrad next year?

Matthew McCarthy couldn't help Orrell in their slide towards division 2 --
will he stay at Orrell if the drop continues?

Paul Turner couldn't work his magic quickly enough at Bedford to help them
slip into the first division -- will he just be glad not to have to compete
with big spending Newcastle and Richmond, or will he find it harder to have
such influence as his contribution on the field begins to wane?

Even those with comparative success may end the year disapponted:

Adrian Hadley, player/manager at Sale, must be upset to have come away with
neither a European Cup place for next season nor a Pilkington Cup for the
trophy cabinet. What will he do if Mannix and Mitchell can't get playing
permits for next season?

Craig Quinnell not only found his second division rugby in England didn't
help him gain a regular international place when one was begging, but might
he find his club place under threat from South African Steve Atherton next
year as Richmond bolster their squad?

Still I bet none of these individuals will get much sympathy from anyone
down in Dunvant. What do you get in Wales for finishing with a better
record than the 5th place team in the Welsh first division? Nope, not a
place in Europe, a place in second division next year.

      Cheers,

               Ben

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

University of Oregon            | http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~benc
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 
 
 

Final English Standings 96/97 Season.

Post by Meredydd Smar » Wed, 21 May 1997 04:00:00

Quote:
> The failure of Davies at Leeds is quite a surprise. I thought with the
> resources put at his disposal, and his apparent leadership ability, he
> would have assembled a team capable of getting out of division 3. Seems
> like Llanelli might not be so disappointed he chose to move on after all.

> Still Phil Davies isn't the only Welshman who might be glad this season is
> over and will hope for a change of fortune next time around.

> Mark Ring and his legion of Welsh imports sank virtually without a trace at
> West Hartlepool -- will any be back next year with Mike Brewer in charge?

> The Llewellyn brothers failed to add the supposed steel to the Harlequins
> pack and once again the club end the year empty handed -- will whoever
> takes over at Harlequins consider the pair worth their money?

> Mike Griffiths at least was part of the title winning team at Wasps -- but
> played second fiddle to young props Green and Molloy [still he did better
> than Wasps other Welsh signing, Matthew Lewis, who proved surplus to
> requirements even before the season really got going] -- will Griffiths be
> asked to save himself the drive from Ystrad next year?

> Matthew McCarthy couldn't help Orrell in their slide towards division 2 --
> will he stay at Orrell if the drop continues?

> Paul Turner couldn't work his magic quickly enough at Bedford to help them
> slip into the first division -- will he just be glad not to have to compete
> with big spending Newcastle and Richmond, or will he find it harder to have
> such influence as his contribution on the field begins to wane?

> Even those with comparative success may end the year disapponted:

> Adrian Hadley, player/manager at Sale, must be upset to have come away with
> neither a European Cup place for next season nor a Pilkington Cup for the
> trophy cabinet. What will he do if Mannix and Mitchell can't get playing
> permits for next season?

> Craig Quinnell not only found his second division rugby in England didn't
> help him gain a regular international place when one was begging, but might
> he find his club place under threat from South African Steve Atherton next
> year as Richmond bolster their squad?

> Still I bet none of these individuals will get much sympathy from anyone
> down in Dunvant. What do you get in Wales for finishing with a better
> record than the 5th place team in the Welsh first division? Nope, not a
> place in Europe, a place in second division next year.

What are you so sore at?  The lack of English players in the English
first division?  Mind if you will buy cast offs what do you expect?
Have I missed something earlier in the thread that led to this outburst?

Why do you ignore Bateman, Scott Quinnell, Andy Moore and Adrain Davies
at Richmond?  Huw Harries at 'Quins seems to have done o.k. and Gareth
LLewellyn doesn't appear to have been dissed into many match reports
I've read. Hadley is generally reckoned to have had a good season for an
old man.  Rob Jones is still playing well despite Bristol struggling.
Nathan Thomas has done well at Bath, though Richard Webster hasn't.

But the sucess or failure of these clubs isn't just due to the Welsh
players it's about teams - why do you expect them to be one man teams?

And whether you like it or not a number of Welsh players will be on the
shopping lists of English sides again this summer - Barry Williams
already proving to be the first.  It's probably only Cardiff who have
enough money to be able to ignore substantial offers for players -
though most will try to hang onto their stars.

English club rugby does have a problem but it's not just to do with
Welsh players - it's full of non-English players - many ageing stars in
their later years (Lynagh, Sella, Cabannes, Gareth Rees, Sainte-Andre,
Rob Jones etc.), others have never quite made the grade (Simon Mannix,
Matt McCarthy, Andy Moore, Adrain Davies) - most are arguably overpaid.
It isn't the fault of the players though but of the recruitment policy
of rich English clubs - if the influx carries on where are England going
to find upcoming talent in ten years time?  

As for the Welsh bonus points system: It is flawed but does help put the
emphasis on try-scoring. Everyone knows the rules at the start of the
season, it's up to them to live with it.

 
 
 

Final English Standings 96/97 Season.

Post by Paul Dutto » Wed, 21 May 1997 04:00:00

Quote:


><<stuff deleted>>
>>Exeter's win at Reading means
>>disappointment for big spending Leeds (director of rugby ex-Welsh
>>backrow/lock Phil Davies).
>The failure of Davies at Leeds is quite a surprise. I thought with the
>resources put at his disposal, and his apparent leadership ability, he
>would have assembled a team capable of getting out of division 3. Seems
>like Llanelli might not be so disappointed he chose to move on after all.
>Still Phil Davies isn't the only Welshman who might be glad this season is
>over and will hope for a change of fortune next time around.
>Mark Ring and his legion of Welsh imports sank virtually without a trace at
>West Hartlepool -- will any be back next year with Mike Brewer in charge?
>The Llewellyn brothers failed to add the supposed steel to the Harlequins
>pack and once again the club end the year empty handed -- will whoever
>takes over at Harlequins consider the pair worth their money?
>Mike Griffiths at least was part of the title winning team at Wasps -- but
>played second fiddle to young props Green and Molloy [still he did better
>than Wasps other Welsh signing, Matthew Lewis, who proved surplus to
>requirements even before the season really got going] -- will Griffiths be
>asked to save himself the drive from Ystrad next year?
>Matthew McCarthy couldn't help Orrell in their slide towards division 2 --
>will he stay at Orrell if the drop continues?
>Paul Turner couldn't work his magic quickly enough at Bedford to help them
>slip into the first division -- will he just be glad not to have to compete
>with big spending Newcastle and Richmond, or will he find it harder to have
>such influence as his contribution on the field begins to wane?
>Even those with comparative success may end the year disapponted:
>Adrian Hadley, player/manager at Sale, must be upset to have come away with
>neither a European Cup place for next season nor a Pilkington Cup for the
>trophy cabinet. What will he do if Mannix and Mitchell can't get playing
>permits for next season?
>Craig Quinnell not only found his second division rugby in England didn't
>help him gain a regular international place when one was begging, but might
>he find his club place under threat from South African Steve Atherton next
>year as Richmond bolster their squad?
>Still I bet none of these individuals will get much sympathy from anyone
>down in Dunvant. What do you get in Wales for finishing with a better
>record than the 5th place team in the Welsh first division? Nope, not a
>place in Europe, a place in second division next year.
>      Cheers,
>               Ben
>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

>University of Oregon            | http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~benc
>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Heavy Psychology.  These Welsh Chaps really are better staying in their own
Country with their own Mickey Mouse leagues where they can look really good.

Letter of the Week.


 
 
 

Final English Standings 96/97 Season.

Post by Martin Rylan » Thu, 22 May 1997 04:00:00



Quote:

><<stuff deleted>>

>>What are you so sore at?  The lack of English players in the English
>>first division?  Mind if you will buy cast offs what do you expect?
>>Have I missed something earlier in the thread that led to this outburst?

>I wouldn't say I'm sore, this outburst was sparked by the fact that Leeds
>failed to get promotion -- something I'd considered relatively "certain"
>given the ability of the people they had brought in, and the funds
>available. When I then considered the impact of Welsh players in England I
>was surprised by the general lack of success (even in those cases where
>they certainly haven't been failures).

>>Why do you ignore Bateman, Scott Quinnell, Andy Moore and Adrain Davies
>>at Richmond?  

>The little I've seen of Richmond, their squad overall appeared too powerful
>for their opposition, but none of the players appeared outstanding and
>certainly not playing at anywhere near their best (and not just the Welsh
>ones -- I can't remember seeing Ben Clarke, Richard West, or the like
>perform "well" either).

At the start of last season, Richard West had just been capped by
England in the world cup.  By the end of the season, he was struggling
to keep his place in the Gloucester reserve side.  I don't know what
happened, but it's the worst loss of form I've ever seen.  Did he only
have one good season in him?

Quote:

>>Huw Harries at 'Quins seems to have done o.k.

>I'm not sure how fat of a contract Harries is on as 'Quins, but he
>certainly has looked impressive. Best of all for 'Quins he looks to be
>improving all the time.

With Harlequins having several nationalities in the team, maybe it's
easier to fit in there than other English clubs.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

>>and Gareth
>>LLewellyn doesn't appear to have been dissed into many match reports
>>I've read.

>He may not have been "dissed" but especially considering the outlay of
>money,I didn't see him perform at the level he is capable of in any of the
>matches I saw, nor did I see any right ups that suggested he was. For a
>player with so much talent, he really hasn't made an impact. I for one am
>surprised.

>>Hadley is generally reckoned to have had a good season for an
>>old man.  

>He really has the look of a rugby league player now -- not in a bad way. He
>and Baxendall appear a good combination (when both are fit).

>>Rob Jones is still playing well despite Bristol struggling.

>He did spend a significant chunk of the season injured though.

>>Nathan Thomas has done well at Bath, though Richard Webster hasn't.

Ed Pearce (an England U21 cap) left Bath, partly because Richard Webster
arrived pushing him to at least 4th in line for a place.  At Gloucester
this season, he's played several first team games when the first choice
blind side or No 8 have been unavailable.  Bath have lost a promising
English player (who's been in terrific form this season) and presumably
paid a lot of money for Richard Webster, who's done very little and
can't have many seasons left in first division rugby.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

>The Bath backrow have been terrible this year. Only Lyle has shown anything
>like the form and consistency the club need.

>>But the sucess or failure of these clubs isn't just due to the Welsh
>>players it's about teams - why do you expect them to be one man teams?

>I didn't expect too many of the Welsh players coming into the league to
>struggle to play their best. I'm not quite sure why, but I can think of
>very few teams that wont be disappointed to some extent.

>>And whether you like it or not a number of Welsh players will be on the
>>shopping lists of English sides again this summer - Barry Williams
>>already proving to be the first.  It's probably only Cardiff who have
>>enough money to be able to ignore substantial offers for players -
>>though most will try to hang onto their stars.

>In England it will be interesting to see who has money to spend, and how
>they decide to use it.

>>English club rugby does have a problem but it's not just to do with
>>Welsh players - it's full of non-English players - many ageing stars in
>>their later years (Lynagh, Sella, Cabannes, Gareth Rees, Sainte-Andre,
>>Rob Jones etc.), others have never quite made the grade (Simon Mannix,
>>Matt McCarthy, Andy Moore, Adrain Davies) - most are arguably overpaid.
>>It isn't the fault of the players though but of the recruitment policy
>>of rich English clubs - if the influx carries on where are England going
>>to find upcoming talent in ten years time?

Wasps reckon that Gareth Rees has been crucial to their success this
season.  Philippe Saint-Andre is only 30 and will be helping with
coaching at Gloucester as well as playing.  He is already talking about
staying on after his playing career finishes as a coach.  In an area
with scores of clubs, this will help upcoming talent.  We might even see
a world class three-quarter appear from Gloucester (hopefully several).

Quote:

>The trade-off between those emerging players getting to play around a
>variety of styles, and in an improved league; versus the fact that there
>will simply be fewer opportunities will be the big question facing English
>rugby.

English clubs have to get the balance right, this season there were only
four English fly-halves in the first division.  It would be illegal to
place restrictions on how many non-English players each side could have,
but I think that when Welsh clubs start attracting money, their players
will stay.  If not, then will there be any Welsh clubs left anyway?  

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

>Personally overall I would say that I was surprised that the players coming
>in didn't make more of an impact -- whether this was a case of buying the
>wrong players, the players available not being the best, or just the change
>in rugby culture in switching from Wales to England, I don't know. Clearly
>some clubs will be happier than others, and some players perforaed better
>than others, but overall my point still stands that it has been a generally
>disappointing year for the Welsh in England.

>      Cheers,

>               Ben

>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

>University of Oregon            | http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~benc
>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Regards

Martin Ryland
--
The Shed, repository of the finest rugby supporters in the game.  

Stephen Jones, the Sunday Times, 13th April 1997

 
 
 

Final English Standings 96/97 Season.

Post by Doria » Thu, 22 May 1997 04:00:00

<snip>

Quote:
> English club rugby does have a problem but it's not just to do with
> Welsh players - it's full of non-English players - many ageing stars in
> their later years (Lynagh, Sella, Cabannes, Gareth Rees, Sainte-Andre,
> Rob Jones etc.), others have never quite made the grade (Simon Mannix,
> Matt McCarthy, Andy Moore, Adrain Davies) - most are arguably overpaid.
> It isn't the fault of the players though but of the recruitment policy
> of rich English clubs - if the influx carries on where are England going
> to find upcoming talent in ten years time?

A certain London club has already approached Welsh Under 16 players with  
offers of scholarships to a College in England and promises to fund them
through University (I'm sure this is was not offered just out of the
goodness of their hearts).  This would also make them eligible to play for
English schools.  Having talked to some to the lads, thats the last thing
they want.

There is also reports of another London club looking at Colleges in Wales,
with the thought that this arrangement would be more acceptable to the Under
16 players they hope to attract.

Just how many other Nations Junior and Youth rugby players have been
approached to ensure the English clubs future success, and how many other
clubs are offering similar deals is unknown, but I'll bet someone knows.

DM

 
 
 

Final English Standings 96/97 Season.

Post by Ben Cle » Thu, 22 May 1997 04:00:00

<<stuff deleted>>

Quote:
>What are you so sore at?  The lack of English players in the English
>first division?  Mind if you will buy cast offs what do you expect?
>Have I missed something earlier in the thread that led to this outburst?

I wouldn't say I'm sore, this outburst was sparked by the fact that Leeds
failed to get promotion -- something I'd considered relatively "certain"
given the ability of the people they had brought in, and the funds
available. When I then considered the impact of Welsh players in England I
was surprised by the general lack of success (even in those cases where
they certainly haven't been failures).

Quote:
>Why do you ignore Bateman, Scott Quinnell, Andy Moore and Adrain Davies
>at Richmond?  

The little I've seen of Richmond, their squad overall appeared too powerful
for their opposition, but none of the players appeared outstanding and
certainly not playing at anywhere near their best (and not just the Welsh
ones -- I can't remember seeing Ben Clarke, Richard West, or the like
perform "well" either).

Quote:
>Huw Harries at 'Quins seems to have done o.k.

I'm not sure how fat of a contract Harries is on as 'Quins, but he
certainly has looked impressive. Best of all for 'Quins he looks to be
improving all the time.

Quote:
>and Gareth
>LLewellyn doesn't appear to have been dissed into many match reports
>I've read.

He may not have been "dissed" but especially considering the outlay of
money,I didn't see him perform at the level he is capable of in any of the
matches I saw, nor did I see any right ups that suggested he was. For a
player with so much talent, he really hasn't made an impact. I for one am
surprised.

Quote:
>Hadley is generally reckoned to have had a good season for an
>old man.  

He really has the look of a rugby league player now -- not in a bad way. He
and Baxendall appear a good combination (when both are fit).

Quote:
>Rob Jones is still playing well despite Bristol struggling.

He did spend a significant chunk of the season injured though.

Quote:
>Nathan Thomas has done well at Bath, though Richard Webster hasn't.

The Bath backrow have been terrible this year. Only Lyle has shown anything
like the form and consistency the club need.

Quote:
>But the sucess or failure of these clubs isn't just due to the Welsh
>players it's about teams - why do you expect them to be one man teams?

I didn't expect too many of the Welsh players coming into the league to
struggle to play their best. I'm not quite sure why, but I can think of
very few teams that wont be disappointed to some extent.

Quote:
>And whether you like it or not a number of Welsh players will be on the
>shopping lists of English sides again this summer - Barry Williams
>already proving to be the first.  It's probably only Cardiff who have
>enough money to be able to ignore substantial offers for players -
>though most will try to hang onto their stars.

In England it will be interesting to see who has money to spend, and how
they decide to use it.

Quote:
>English club rugby does have a problem but it's not just to do with
>Welsh players - it's full of non-English players - many ageing stars in
>their later years (Lynagh, Sella, Cabannes, Gareth Rees, Sainte-Andre,
>Rob Jones etc.), others have never quite made the grade (Simon Mannix,
>Matt McCarthy, Andy Moore, Adrain Davies) - most are arguably overpaid.
>It isn't the fault of the players though but of the recruitment policy
>of rich English clubs - if the influx carries on where are England going
>to find upcoming talent in ten years time?  

The trade-off between those emerging players getting to play around a
variety of styles, and in an improved league; versus the fact that there
will simply be fewer opportunities will be the big question facing English
rugby.

Personally overall I would say that I was surprised that the players coming
in didn't make more of an impact -- whether this was a case of buying the
wrong players, the players available not being the best, or just the change
in rugby culture in switching from Wales to England, I don't know. Clearly
some clubs will be happier than others, and some players perforaed better
than others, but overall my point still stands that it has been a generally
disappointing year for the Welsh in England.

      Cheers,

               Ben

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University of Oregon            | http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~benc
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Final English Standings 96/97 Season.

Post by Richard Bridgma » Sat, 24 May 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

> A certain London club has already approached Welsh Under 16 players with
> offers of scholarships to a College in England and promises to fund them
> through University (I'm sure this is was not offered just out of the
> goodness of their hearts).  This would also make them eligible to play for
> English schools.  Having talked to some to the lads, thats the last thing
> they want.

> There is also reports of another London club looking at Colleges in Wales,
> with the thought that this arrangement would be more acceptable to the Under
> 16 players they hope to attract.

> Just how many other Nations Junior and Youth rugby players have been
> approached to ensure the English clubs future success, and how many other
> clubs are offering similar deals is unknown, but I'll bet someone knows.

If I'm correctly interpreting the tone of your posting, you
seem to be suggesting yet more heinous and fell deeds are being
perpetrated by the evil, English rugby moguls.

For years, or at least up until the game became openly
professional, SH clubs have offered similar inducements to NH
rugby players - particularly younger players, in many cases
even advertising in national newspapers. Presumably this
was because SH teams were less embarrassed with the concept
of paying for rugby playing ability.

My younger brother played schoolboy rugby with a particularly
talented prop called Alex Poole (round about 1991). Alex was
offered an all expenses paid secondment to an Australian (I
think) club. He was obviously delighted at the opportunity to
further his promising career, and nobody viewed the predatory
club as an oppressor or a thief of foreign talent.

If young Welsh players and the Welsh rugby establishment is
intending to discourage the transfer of players abroad, then the
sad state of Welsh rugby will continue for many years to come.
If they wish to dig their own graves purely because of their
narrow-minded animosity towards the English, then dig away. I'll
even lend them my shovel.

----------------
Richard Bridgman

 
 
 

Final English Standings 96/97 Season.

Post by The Welsh Wiza » Sat, 24 May 1997 04:00:00

On Fri, 23 May 1997 10:25:42 +0800, Richard Bridgman

Quote:


>> A certain London club has already approached Welsh Under 16 players with
>> offers of scholarships to a College in England(CLIP). I'll
>even lend them my shovel.

>----------------
>Richard Bridgman

Odd fellow this Bridgeman - the article was about English clubs taking
steps to shut out their own young players and he reads it as a Welsh
ploy.

Wales have given up about 50% of their top players to Rugby League for
many years - the fact that it is now English 'Amateur' Clubs waving
the cheque books makes no real difference.

If a guy can better himself by playing Rugby for pay in Richmond
rather than for nothing in Newport why shouldn't he take the cash.

But if English clubs decide to take this route how can the Welsh be
blamed, (except perhaps for producing players more attractive to the
men with the chequebooks)

Come along Mr Bridgeman - we know that a well balanced Australian has
a chip on both shoulders, but I would have thought that the recent
drubbings that Oz have given the Welsh would have wiped out the
inferiority complex which has existed for so many years - obviously I
am wrong
Cheers
The Welsh Wizard

 
 
 

Final English Standings 96/97 Season.

Post by Nigel Evan » Sun, 25 May 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
>Come along Mr Bridgeman - we know that a well balanced Australian has
>a chip on both shoulders, but I would have thought that the recent
>drubbings that Oz have given the Welsh would have wiped out the
>inferiority complex which has existed for so many years - obviously I
>am wrong

                     Yes, you are wrong. Everyboy's making false
assumptions about everybody else ! Young Mr Bridgeman hails from the
South East of England. He has gone to Australia voluntarily. He didn't
even steal anything ! I know that his decision is amazing. I am sure
that he enjoyed the Australia v Wales games because Wales lost. He would
have had no joy as a result of seeing Australia win.  
--
Nigel Evans
 
 
 

Final English Standings 96/97 Season.

Post by The Welsh Wiza » Sun, 25 May 1997 04:00:00

On Sat, 24 May 1997 12:20:40 +0100, Nigel Evans

Quote:



>>Come along Mr Bridgeman - we know that a well balanced Australian has
>>a chip on both shoulders, but I would have thought that the recent
>>drubbings that Oz have given the Welsh would have wiped out the
>>inferiority complex which has existed for so many years - obviously I
>>am wrong

>                     Yes, you are wrong. Everyboy's making false
>assumptions about everybody else ! Young Mr Bridgeman hails from the
>South East of England. He has gone to Australia voluntarily. He didn't
>even steal anything ! I know that his decision is amazing. I am sure
>that he enjoyed the Australia v Wales games because Wales lost. He would
>have had no joy as a result of seeing Australia win.  
>--
>Nigel Evans

Ooops
Cheers
The Welsh Wizard

 
 
 

Final English Standings 96/97 Season.

Post by Richard Bridgma » Tue, 27 May 1997 04:00:00

[snip]

Quote:
> I am sure that he enjoyed the Australia v Wales games because
> Wales lost. He would have had no joy as a result of seeing Australia
> win.

Strangely enough, no. I didn't enjoy the game because I didn't
think it was a particularly good one. Also, and hard as this
might be to believe, I was hoping Wales would win because I
believe I have more in common with a British team than I do
with an Australian one. I also prefer the style of play that
they certainly used to play, and that they seem to be trying
to play again. If Welsh supporters (or English ones) feel
outraged at the thought of an Englishman daring to ally himself
with something Welsh, too bad.

When the Welsh team were over here in Western Australia, a
friend of mine, Gareth Jones (guess where *he's* from) and
his young son and myself went to try and catch a glimpse of
the Welsh side during a practice session. Unfortunately we
were late and the main session had finished, but Jenkins was
still there practicing his place-kicking, and Ieaun Evans was
returning them. Gareth's son couldn't contain himself and rushed
over for an autograph, which both players were happy to sign.
I have to say they were both extremely pleasant, and Ieaun Evans
in particular is a top bloke, and was happy to have a chat (even
if we didn't quite know what to say to him). Jenkins *does* have
the most ridiculous ears though !

----------------
Richard Bridgman

 
 
 

Final English Standings 96/97 Season.

Post by Nigel Evan » Tue, 27 May 1997 04:00:00



Quote:
>Strangely enough, no. I didn't enjoy the game because I didn't
>think it was a particularly good one. Also, and hard as this
>might be to believe, I was hoping Wales would win because I
>believe I have more in common with a British team than I do
>with an Australian one. I also prefer the style of play that
>they certainly used to play, and that they seem to be trying
>to play again. If Welsh supporters (or English ones) feel
>outraged at the thought of an Englishman daring to ally himself
>with something Welsh, too bad.

                   I am genuinely pleased to agree with you in
everything you say. When I criticised the awful "style" of Australian
rugby I was criticised for being a bad loser. I am a bad loser. In fact,
I am one of the worst losers in the world ! But, I was, and still am, of
the opinion that Australian rugby is a different game to the one we
play. It is, essentially, Australian rules played on a rugby pitch. It's
horrible to watch. It has no grace. One sees lots of scores but none
stays in the memory. It's uncultured rubbish. Some people like it. Let
them have it. But, not for me, please.
                   Shortly before the Welsh Cup Final, I was driving at
the Coryton Interchange in Cardiff and trying to get into the correct
lane for the A470 which leads to Merthyr and Pontypridd. On my outside
was a large four wheel drive vehicle. The driver was wearing a huge
padded jacket ( it was cold ) and gave him the appearance of a man who
weighed between twenty to thirty stones. He wore a cap with a big peak
on it and stared straight ahead. The combined affect of the collar of
the jacket and the cap was to minimise the size of the driver's head. I
was fascinated by this strange creature and couldn't take my eyes off
him. However, I was in the wrong lane and had to accelerate by him. I
pulled over into his lane. In the mirror the driver looked even more
strange. I was driving a very fast car and was able to allow the driver
to overtake me knowing that I could pass him easily again to take
another look. It was only when he took the Ponty turning that I realised
that this spellbinding animal was driving a vehicle sponsored by a TV
firm which supports Pontypridd. Yes, the driver was our Neil. He does
have very big ears and on this occasion they were the only parts of his
anatomy on display. He drives at the same pace as he does his place
kicking.
--
Nigel Evans