Creatine - Carteblanche TV program on MNET

Creatine - Carteblanche TV program on MNET

Post by Brent Murph » Mon, 13 Sep 1999 04:00:00


I am a pharmacist from Fine Pharmaceuticals, distributors of Pure FP
Creatine. The TV show Carteblanche, on MNET on 12 Sept 99 highlighted the
importance of professional advice about creatine supplementation. This can
make the difference between beneficial effects & unwanted side-effects.

Fine Pharmaceuticals offers such a service free of charge. You can contact
our pharmacist (email or fax), access unbiased research material on the good
the bad & the hype around creatine at

www.finepharmaceuticals.com

The 6 primary creatine goldens rules of Creatine are:

1) Warm up, warm down.
2) Don't over exert yourself - build up slowly.
3) Drink plenty of water
4) Take a magnesium supplement if you have muscle cramps.
5) Don't use if you are under 16 years of age
6) Use creatine in moderation.  More that 5-6 grams daily in total is not
normally required & can lead to unwanted side effects.

Kindest regards Brent Murphy - B.Pharm (Rhodes), M.P.S.

Here is an extract from our webpage on side effects if used unwisely.  More
information on uses, abuse, effects, medicinal uses etc can be found at
www.finepharmaceuticals.com or email me.

Creatine has not been around for many years.Therefore longterm studies on
the product have not been performed. Since creatine is a natural substance,
we do not expect there to be long term side effects, AT RECOMMENDED MODERATE
DOSES. It is when these doses are exceeded that long term side effects could
be possible.

Acute (short term ) side effects are usually not related to creatine itself,
but rather the effects of increased muscle strain.  these could include :
possible muscle cramps & in extreme cases, muscle tears from over stress.
Therefore it is important warm up slowly don't overdo it.  Drink adequate
water (2l) daily. Diarrhoea could occur due to the osmotic laxative effect
of creatine (pumping of water from the *** into the gut to "dilute" the
creatine concentration.  This should go after a few weeks due to the
creatine concentration gradient between the gut & the *** decreasing
(*** creatine levels rise & gut concentrations halve after the loading
dose).

Diarrhoea can result in fluid loss.  This, along with sweating, increased
activity & increased kidney function could result in dehydration &
electrolyte imbalance which could lead to cramps & kidney complaints.
Therefore in addition to adequate water intake, electrolytes may have to be
supplemented, especially if there are associated muscle cramps.  In these
situations consider taking a magnesium supplement (about 200mg daily).

On the questions of chronic (long term) side effects:

This is an extract on possible side effects by Dr Wayne Derman and Dr Martin
Schwellnus, Sports Science Institute of South Africa, published in Modern
Medicine, November 1998.   This highlights the unknowns about creatine use &
where further research is required.

"If muscle strength increases will this increase the incidence of muscle
injury? This is a particular concern in the adolescent athlete who is
susceptible to injuries of growing muscle and bone.

Can the kidneys safely clear higher concentrations of creatine? Short term
use seems not to be a problem, according to one study, since creatine is a
small enough compound to be excreted easily. So a person with healthy
kidneys should be fine.

Does normal creatine production by the liver, kidneys and pancreas decrease
when creatine is added to the diet? Research has shown that it takes about 4
weeks for skeletal muscle concentration of creatine and phosphocreatine to
return to normal after supplementation. No-one yet knows what happens after
longer term supplementation.

Does creatine supplementation cause the cardiac muscle to get bigger? What
are the effect of this?"

www.finepharmaceuticals.com

Benefits of creatine:

Creatine enhances performance in 6 ways:

1) Increasing exercise intensity: The muscles are able to contract more
powerfully, because of the high levels of ATP inside the cells at any
particular time. This results in increased strength. The muscles can also
contract for a longer period of time because of the increased storage of ATP
within the cell.

2) Prevents fatigue & recharges the muscle: The muscles can contract for
longer, before running out of energy. This is because creatine ensures that
there is the maximum amount of ATP stored up inside the cell. When all the
muscles' energy (ATP) is finally used up, the muscles become exhausted Once
this occurs, if the muscles are allowed to relax for a few minutes, creatine
quickly creates more ATP. This allows you to continue your routine, where
normally your muscles would be too exhausted.

3) Recovery between exercise: Creatine is able to help muscles recover more
quickly between exercise sessions. This results in less stiffness and muscle
fatigue the next day. This is due, in part, to the ability of
creatine to help prevent the build up of lactic acid within the muscles.

4) Lean muscle growth: If weight lifting (resistance) exercise is performed,
creatine will cause an increase in lean muscle mass. This is because: (a)
Creatine allows the muscle to work harder, longer & more often, and (b)
Creatine may actually send a chemical instruction for the muscle cells to
become thicker with more muscle tissue.

5) Fat Loss: With creatine, your metabolic demands will be higher. This is
due to an increased ability to exercise as well as the high energy demand
that an increased lean muscle mass will require. This energy will be
supplied by your diet & your body's fat reserves. Fat loss is not the same
as weight loss. This is because, as the fat is used up, you will gain muscle
definition. Muscle is more dense than fat, so your weight may not change,
but you will lose fat centimeters.

6) Endurance: Recent research has shown that creatine is beneficial for
endurance because it helps prevent the build up of Lactic acid. When lactic
acid builds up inside the muscle, the muscles can no longer perform at 100%.
Creatine also spares the muscles' glycogen levels for longer. Glycogen is
one of the muscles' main energy reserves. Creatine will also help for those
parts of an endurance event that requires short bursts of power, e.g.
running/cycling up hills.

www.finepharmaceuticals.com

 
 
 

Creatine - Carteblanche TV program on MNET

Post by Ferdi Greyli » Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:00:00

<<<, and (b)

Quote:
>Creatine may actually send a chemical instruction for the muscle cells to
>become thicker with more muscle tissue.>>

So it is like steroids and stuff, is'nt it?

What was that bit about it not affecting the heart in the longe term?

 
 
 

Creatine - Carteblanche TV program on MNET

Post by Brent Murph » Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Dear Ferdi Greyling

No, creatine does not work like steroids do.  Steroids bind to steroid
receptors in the muscle tissue.  This can result in androgenic side effects
& a decrease in testosterone production.  Creatine does not bind to steroid
receptors & does not work by a steroid mechanism at all.  It works by
increasing the muscle energy carrier molecules called ATP.

Creatine may or may not enlarge heart size... we are not sure.  If this does
happen, then the clinical significance of this is unknown, as we find
swimmers & cyclists have enlarged hearts naturally, with no negative effects
at all.

*** pressure side effects  MAY occur, but would be as a result of overuse
of creatine, resulting in kidney malfunction.  This could raise ***
pressure levels.  Thus overuse MUST be discouraged.  However normal doses
(max of 6g daily) may actually have beneficial cardiac effects eg Lowering
Cholesterol & *** lipids & reducing the effort required by the heart to
beat.

This research is available online at www.finepharmaceuticals.com

Kindest regards

Brent Murphy - B.Pharm (Rhodes), M.P.S
Pharmacist


Quote:

> <<<, and (b)
> >Creatine may actually send a chemical instruction for the muscle cells to
> >become thicker with more muscle tissue.>>

> So it is like steroids and stuff, is'nt it?

> What was that bit about it not affecting the heart in the longe term?


 
 
 

Creatine - Carteblanche TV program on MNET

Post by Ferdi Greyli » Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:00:00

On Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:49:13 +0200, "Brent Murphy"

<<>Dear Ferdi Greyling

Quote:

>No, creatine does not work like steroids do.  Steroids bind to steroid
>receptors in the muscle tissue.  >>

Dear Brent Murphy,
        Forget for a while then biological argument and look at the
ethics. If steroids builds muscle and is therefore unethical in sport,
then creatine must also be if it also builds muscle.
        This an ethical argument. Not a biological one.
        The objection to steroids in sport is an ethical one.
        Not a biological one.
        Then that bit about "the clinical significance of this is
unknown". Like playing with fire, is'nt it?
 
 
 

Creatine - Carteblanche TV program on MNET

Post by Ian Didda » Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:00:00


Quote:

>Forget for a while then biological argument and look at the
>ethics. If steroids builds muscle and is therefore unethical in
>sport, then creatine must also be if it also builds muscle.
>This an ethical argument. Not a biological one.

A very interesting point Ferdi, and one tuched on in an article in The
INdependent on Sunday yesterday, whioch went on to further expound a
theory/conept of maybe then dieticians etc etc etc are touching on the
boundaries of morals etc as (it was suggested) it would benefit those
better off than others ie there is an unequal playing field in this
regard.

Fascinating stuff, if a little too "far fetched" ...

Didds
UK mobile phone deals and PCs at low cost.
UK Accomodation addresses available.

 
 
 

Creatine - Carteblanche TV program on MNET

Post by robg.. » Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:00:00


   >Then that bit about "the clinical significance of this is
   >unknown". Like playing with fire, is'nt it?

Not really.  The clinical significance of MOST things is unknown.
Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered

 
 
 

Creatine - Carteblanche TV program on MNET

Post by Ferdi Greyli » Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:00:00


Quote:

>   >Then that bit about "the clinical significance of this is
>   >unknown". Like playing with fire, is'nt it?

>Not really.  The clinical significance of MOST things is unknown.
>Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Registered >>

Those most things, what sort of most things are you refering to here?

People in general tend not to want to take medicine with unknown long
term effects when they are not ill.  I consider that as very sensible.

 
 
 

Creatine - Carteblanche TV program on MNET

Post by Brent Murph » Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Dear Ferdi

Quote:

> Dear Brent Murphy,
> Forget for a while then biological argument and look at the
> ethics.
>If steroids builds muscle and is therefore unethical in sport,
> then creatine must also be if it also builds muscle.
> This an ethical argument. Not a biological one.
> The objection to steroids in sport is an ethical one.
> Not a biological one.
> Then that bit about "the clinical significance of this is
> unknown". Like playing with fire, is'nt it?

My response:

Protein (Fish, Chicken) etc is required for muscle formation. Sugar &
glucose also provides energy & is essential to muscle growth. Using your
logic, that anything that builds muscle is "unethical", it could be argued
that it would then be "unethical" to eat protein or eat sugar!  The ethics
of creatine use is interesting though, especially with regard to use by
youngsters (I discourage the use in persons under the age of 16, when asked
for advise).

However, I am not a psychologist.  I am a pharmacist. Therefore my reason
for starting this thread was to inform from a physical point of view, not to
get embroiled in the ethics of creatine:

Creatine is natural. However, in the same way as you should not eat to much
chicken, drink too much water, take too much salt, you should not take too
much creatine. Moderation is the key: NONE is bad, TOO MUCH is BAD.
Moderate use of creatine has beneficial effects in sportsmen & even has
medicinal beneficial effects. (see www.finepharmaceuticals.com and look in
the research section).  And yes it may have side effects as mentioned by me
at the beginning of this thread.  I am encouraging people to look at the
pros and cons & make an informed decision.

With regards to the fact that "the clinical significance of this is
unknown".  This actually applies to most things.  No, it is not like playing
with fire.  It is having the humility to say that science has not researched
all there is to research. Basically, the more we discover about something,
the more we find that we still have to discover!

We do not have the answers to everything.  However we do have the answers to
a lot of stuff, including the safe and effective use of creatine at moderate
doses (see clinical trials by worldwide universities in research section of
www.finepharmaceuticals.com ).

Kindest regards

Brent Murphy - B.Pharm (Rhodes), M.P.S.
Pharmacist
Fine Pharmaceuticals

 
 
 

Creatine - Carteblanche TV program on MNET

Post by Ferdi Greyli » Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:00:00

On Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:26:49 +0200, "Brent Murphy"

<<>Protein (Fish, Chicken) etc is required for muscle formation. Sugar
&

Quote:
>glucose also provides energy & is essential to muscle growth. Using your
>logic, that anything that builds muscle is "unethical", it could be argued
>that it would then be "unethical" to eat protein or eat sugar!  >>

Actually not. The difference is in HOW it is done.
Hormones are natural.
Some athletes have naturally more than others.
To boost your own hormone level unnaturally is in sports terms
unethical.

See the difference?

<<The ethics

Quote:
>of creatine use is interesting though, especially with regard to use by
>youngsters (I discourage the use in persons under the age of 16, when asked
>for advise).>>

Why?
Does this not ring a few alarm bells?

<<>However, I am not a psychologist.  I am a pharmacist. Therefore my
reason

Quote:
>for starting this thread was to inform from a physical point of view, not to
>get embroiled in the ethics of creatine:>>

But ethics is at the heart of it!
A doctor prescribing steroids and a coach giving steroids to a rugby
player to enhance his performance. The one is a medical matter the
other is an ethical matter in sport.

Creatine is NOT known for it being given to sick people by doctors. It
is being given to athletes to enhance their performance artificially.

I am afraid with creatine you are slap bang in the middle of an
ethical thing. You cannot duck out by claiming it is a medical matter.
It is not.

 
 
 

Creatine - Carteblanche TV program on MNET

Post by Brent Murph » Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Dear Ferdi

Quote:

> Hormones are natural.
> Some athletes have naturally more than others.
> To boost your own hormone level unnaturally is in sports terms
> unethical.

I agree with you.

However.....

Creatine is not a hormone. It does not boost your hormone levels.  Nor does
it not work via a hormonal mechanism. You are not boosting any hormones of
anykind by taking creatine.  Creatine is a protein that elevates the energy
carrier molecule, ATP. IT IS NOT A HORMONE!

Kindest regards
Brent Murphy - B.Pharm (Rhodes), M.P.S.
Pharmacist - Fine Pharmaceuticals

 
 
 

Creatine - Carteblanche TV program on MNET

Post by Darren Coope » Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Ethics does not enter into it

One can get creatine from eating a lot of mutton,

Is it unethical to eat Pasta etc for carbo's of fish for protien ?

 
 
 

Creatine - Carteblanche TV program on MNET

Post by Dalla » Thu, 16 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

>Ethics does not enter into it

>One can get creatine from eating a lot of mutton,

>Is it unethical to eat Pasta etc for carbo's of fish for protien ?

The issue here is being clouded by two things: ethics and effects.

The effect of this substance is to supplement the levels of creatine in the
human body. What this does is enable the user to build muscle faster than he
would if he was to consume creatine in normal quantities found in regular
foodstufffs. My take on this is that it is unnaturally boosting levels of a
chemical (or whatever its called) in the body which, although they have not
found any side effects yet, could lead to some sort of problems in the
future because the body may also be creating other chemicals in
larger-than-normal doses to deal with this boosted creatine intake.

What happens if you take in too much carbon dioxide? You pass out. It's a
perfectly natural substance that the body can deal with in small doses, but
if you take in too much you do damage. I think the same principles apply
with creatine.

As far as the ethical argument goes, I cannot give too much comment other
than to say that I don't think it is right to do unnatural things to the
body in order to get a boost in sport. It goes against the very premise of
the word "sport".

To me the issue is that putting too much of a substance into your body will
definately do you harm - no matter what the substance is.

-
D.

 
 
 

Creatine - Carteblanche TV program on MNET

Post by G Vincen » Thu, 16 Sep 1999 04:00:00


Quote:

> To me the issue is that putting too much of a substance into your body
will
> definately do you harm - no matter what the substance is.

Does this mean I have to drink less beer?
I find the more I drink the less harm I think it is doing to me.
 
 
 

Creatine - Carteblanche TV program on MNET

Post by Ferdi Greyli » Thu, 16 Sep 1999 04:00:00

On Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:29:34 +0200, "Brent Murphy"

<<>Dear Ferdi

Quote:


>> Hormones are natural.
>> Some athletes have naturally more than others.
>> To boost your own hormone level unnaturally is in sports terms
>> unethical.

>I agree with you.

>However.....

>Creatine is not a hormone. It does not boost your hormone levels.  Nor does
>it not work via a hormonal mechanism. You are not boosting any hormones of
>anykind by taking creatine.  Creatine is a protein that elevates the energy
>carrier molecule, ATP. IT IS NOT A HORMONE!>>>

And I did not say it was a hormone.

Are you ducking the issue or do you not read the postings with enough
attention?

I know it is not a hormone. You said <<<<>Protein (Fish, Chicken) etc
is required for muscle formation. Sugar & >glucose also provides
energy & is essential to muscle growth. Using your

Quote:
>logic, that anything that builds muscle is "unethical", it could be argued
>that it would then be "unethical" to eat protein or eat sugar!  >>

I said hormones are ALSO natural, but boosting them in an artificial
way is deemed unethical in sports.

It is an example to illustrate that the mere fact that a thing  has a
natural occurance does not make it ethical in all forms in sport.
In other words, saying creatine is natural does not make it ethical to
take it.

The issue is the ethics. And the bounderies crossed or not crossed
when a naturally occuring substance is taken, multiplied unnaturally
and taken to boost performance.

Get it?

I DO NOT say creatine is a hormone. I say in the ETHICAL argument it
may be akin to the hormone example.

You seem to say this thing is easy: Creatine is a natural substance
therefore it is OK.
I say: Not so. It is much more complicated than that. And I point you
to another natural substance - hormones - as an example.

But you have not told me yet why you would not give it to people under
16.

 
 
 

Creatine - Carteblanche TV program on MNET

Post by Dalla » Thu, 16 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

>> To me the issue is that putting too much of a substance into your body
>will
>> definately do you harm - no matter what the substance is.

>Does this mean I have to drink less beer?
>I find the more I drink the less harm I think it is doing to me.

LOL! I was waiting for someone to make that comment - I thought of adding it
myself but then it would have blown the first sensible post I have made in
months to pieces.

Since I quit smoking 3 and a half years ago I have put on about 25 kilograms
in solid mass. A lot of that is from beer. I wonder if creatine can boast
such mass building figures? One of the lighties they interviewed on the show
said that he put on 4kgs. 4kgs??? For the price of the creatine he used to
get 4 kgs, he could have bought about a zillion cases of beer and got the
same result!

-
D.