New predictions for Saturday now...? NZ vs ENG, and other rants...

New predictions for Saturday now...? NZ vs ENG, and other rants...

Post by a_wi » Tue, 10 Jun 2003 23:35:27


I'm a Safer so I'm neutral on this one....

I never saw the game this morning but from what I read the English had
it quite easy over the Maori.

I don't think this changes anything for Saturday's game - I probably
still put NZ slightly ahead as favourites.

The "downside" to England winning this game is that CW has probably
revealed his hand....and ***ell can work with the team this week to
counter it.... Unless of course Woody has a few other surprises up his
sleave!!!

I CANT WAIT FOR THIS MATCH!!!

As a South African supporter I unfortunately no longer get e***d
about the Springbok's anymore...

Saturday's game against Scotland was the first Bok game I've missed in
about 7 years...and I'm not shitting you either...

If you could give me tickets to NZ vs ENG this saturday or tickets to
the rest of the Boks games this year, I would choose NZ vs ENG without
a doubt!

It's just not that exciting watching the likes of Stephan Terblanch
being beaten by a journeyman like Kenny Logan, a club player from
Scotland...

 
 
 

New predictions for Saturday now...? NZ vs ENG, and other rants...

Post by Ben » Tue, 10 Jun 2003 23:55:08


Quote:
> I'm a Safer so I'm neutral on this one....

> I never saw the game this morning but from what I read the English had
> it quite easy over the Maori.

Ish. Nothing looked that easy in the rain. If Gear had got the ball down at
13-9, the complexion of the game might have changed. Maori only got close to
running the ball to the line once.

Quote:

> I don't think this changes anything for Saturday's game - I probably
> still put NZ slightly ahead as favourites.

Yes and yes. NZ were favourites before this match and because this is an
entirely different England side to the Saturday team, nothing changes.

Quote:

> The "downside" to England winning this game is that CW has probably
> revealed his hand....and ***ell can work with the team this week to
> counter it.... Unless of course Woody has a few other surprises up his
> sleave!!!

Woodward's not revealed his hand, unless you mean his hand to be "try to
kill them up front and hope our backs can do better than theirs on the
majority of possession". Mitchell knows plenty about this England team
already, but he'd do better looking at tapes of the 6N than this
error-ridden mudfest.

--
 Ben Longman

 
 
 

New predictions for Saturday now...? NZ vs ENG, and other rants...

Post by The Green Phanto » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 00:59:52

[...]

Quote:
> It's just not that exciting watching the likes of Stephan Terblanch
> being beaten by a journeyman like Kenny Logan, a club player from
> Scotland...

Your assessment of Logan is so dismissive that one might think you didn't
rate him.  Is it just that he 'ought to be crap' because he's a NH player
or have you been following his progress.

He's a Scottish international winger, not a journeyman club player.

regards

The Green Phantom

--
Just remember, wherever you go, there you are.
                -- Buckaroo Bonzai

 
 
 

New predictions for Saturday now...? NZ vs ENG, and other rants...

Post by Ben » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 01:27:09

Quote:
> He's a Scottish international winger, not a journeyman club player.

62 caps no less.
--
 Ben Longman
 
 
 

New predictions for Saturday now...? NZ vs ENG, and other rants...

Post by Greig Blanchet » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 03:09:19

On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 16:59:52 +0100, The Green Phantom

Quote:


>[...]

>> It's just not that exciting watching the likes of Stephan Terblanch
>> being beaten by a journeyman like Kenny Logan, a club player from
>> Scotland...

>Your assessment of Logan is so dismissive that one might think you didn't
>rate him.  Is it just that he 'ought to be crap' because he's a NH player
>or have you been following his progress.

>He's a Scottish international winger, not a journeyman club player.

Are the two mutually exclusive? John Leslie was a journeyman club
player. In fact all of the kilted kiwis were journeymen club players,
but they all became Scotland internationals. Let's face it, there's
not exactly a queue for the job, is there?
 
 
 

New predictions for Saturday now...? NZ vs ENG, and other rants...

Post by Ben » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 03:39:47

Quote:
> Are the two mutually exclusive? John Leslie was a journeyman club
> player. In fact all of the kilted kiwis were journeymen club players,
> but they all became Scotland internationals. Let's face it, there's
> not exactly a queue for the job, is there?

They are mutually exclusive when you are a half-decent goalkicker with 62
caps who has been a mainstay of your national team for 11 years.

As for the journeyman club player here, international over there argument:
fair enough, but some players cut their losses early and head abroad. It
took a while for Carlos to get recognised at international level. Who knows
what might have happened if he'd had a Welsh granddad?

--
 Ben Longman

 
 
 

New predictions for Saturday now...? NZ vs ENG, and other rants...

Post by The Green Phanto » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 04:08:07

Quote:

>>He's a Scottish international winger, not a journeyman club player.

> Are the two mutually exclusive? John Leslie was a journeyman club
> player. In fact all of the kilted kiwis were journeymen club players,
> but they all became Scotland internationals. Let's face it, there's
> not exactly a queue for the job, is there?

The fault lies with the excessive deference that Jim Telfer pays to NZ
rugby.  The regional teams/squads were supposed to be set up to introduce a
more intensive level of play and an opportunity for Scottish players to
develop.

It seemed that from the very start, and for whatever reason, any SH player
whose mother had once been scared by a rabid dog in Carlisle (it's close
enough) was a shoe in for the side.

Hopefully that is now past though there still seems to be a desperation to
find a place for Laney (my own guess would be a pie shop).

Anyway, good of you to take your eyes of the present and imminent NZ worries
to examine the problems of a minor rugby nation.

regards

The Green Phantom

--
I don't mind arguing with myself.  It's when I lose that it bothers me.
                -- Richard Powers

 
 
 

New predictions for Saturday now...? NZ vs ENG, and other rants...

Post by rick bo » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:23:12

On Mon, 9 Jun 2003 19:39:47 +0100, "Ben L"

Quote:

>As for the journeyman club player here, international over there argument:
>fair enough, but some players cut their losses early and head abroad. It
>took a while for Carlos to get recognised at international level. Who knows
>what might have happened if he'd had a Welsh granddad?

Quite right Ben. Selected for the All Blacks as a 19 year old, he was
clearly no overnight sensation. Amazing that he took so long, really.

-- rick boyd

 
 
 

New predictions for Saturday now...? NZ vs ENG, and other rants...

Post by rick bo » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:32:00


Quote:
>I'm a Safer so I'm neutral on this one....

>I never saw the game this morning but from what I read the English had
>it quite easy over the Maori.

The English forwards were, as expected, pretty much flawless, and
maintained comlete forward control through most of the game. And when
it looked like they were running out of puff, Woodward brought on a
bevy of fresh legs and nothing changed. But then Maori teams have
historically always been suspect in the forwards.

Quote:
>I don't think this changes anything for Saturday's game - I probably
>still put NZ slightly ahead as favourites.

You'd be mad to say otherwise. There is nothing going in England's
favour except for some silly international ranking system based on
their reluctance to play away from home.

Expect the All Black pack to foot it with the Ebgland pack, and New
Zealand's backs to slice and dice the English backs. There is always a
chance the All Blacks will self-destruct on a grand scale -- there
seems to be little consistency in the current generation of All
Blacks. But all things being equal I would expect a good win. Unless
it's seriously wet, I would equate a close win with a loss.

Quote:
>The "downside" to England winning this game is that CW has probably
>revealed his hand....and ***ell can work with the team this week to
>counter it.... Unless of course Woody has a few other surprises up his
>sleave!!!

What's to surprise? England will try and dominate in the forwards,
kick tactically from their own half and occasionally try and run their
backs to show that they can foot it with the big boys down under.
Since their back line have the penetrative ability of a mini bus full
of lady lawn bowlers, they will need massive forward ***, a
steady flow of penalties, and record-setting defensive lapses by New
Zealand to win with any sort of conviction.

Quote:
>I CANT WAIT FOR THIS MATCH!!!

Me neither.

Quote:
>As a South African supporter I unfortunately no longer get e***d
>about the Springbok's anymore...

>Saturday's game against Scotland was the first Bok game I've missed in
>about 7 years...and I'm not shitting you either...

>If you could give me tickets to NZ vs ENG this saturday or tickets to
>the rest of the Boks games this year, I would choose NZ vs ENG without
>a doubt!

>It's just not that exciting watching the likes of Stephan Terblanch
>being beaten by a journeyman like Kenny Logan, a club player from
>Scotland...

You have my sympathies. The Bokke will be back, I'm sure.

-- rick boyd

 
 
 

New predictions for Saturday now...? NZ vs ENG, and other rants...

Post by Bulld » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:46:53

My money is still on New Zealand. Something nagging away at me that
the "A" pack would beat up our first choice pack.
 
 
 

New predictions for Saturday now...? NZ vs ENG, and other rants...

Post by Kip » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:04:59


Quote:
>My money is still on New Zealand. Something nagging away at me that
>the "A" pack would beat up our first choice pack.

Doubt it, all we're hoping for is parity, if not that then at least
some quality ball.
 
 
 

New predictions for Saturday now...? NZ vs ENG, and other rants...

Post by hooliga » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:39:07

Where the hell are your *** ?


Quote:
> My money is still on New Zealand. Something nagging away at me that
> the "A" pack would beat up our first choice pack.

 
 
 

New predictions for Saturday now...? NZ vs ENG, and other rants...

Post by John Hil » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:48:18



Quote:
>The "downside" to England winning this game is that CW has probably
>>revealed his hand....and ***ell can work with the team this week to
>>counter it.... Unless of course Woody has a few other surprises up his
>>sleave!!!

>What's to surprise? England will try and dominate in the forwards,
>kick tactically from their own half and occasionally try and run their
>backs to show that they can foot it with the big boys down under.
>Since their back line have the penetrative ability of a mini bus full
>of lady lawn bowlers, they will need massive forward ***, a
>steady flow of penalties, and record-setting defensive lapses by New
>Zealand to win with any sort of conviction.

Not watched England much in the last 12 months then :)

JH

 
 
 

New predictions for Saturday now...? NZ vs ENG, and other rants...

Post by Ben » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:12:29


Quote:
> On Mon, 9 Jun 2003 19:39:47 +0100, "Ben L"

> >As for the journeyman club player here, international over there
argument:
> >fair enough, but some players cut their losses early and head abroad. It
> >took a while for Carlos to get recognised at international level. Who
knows
> >what might have happened if he'd had a Welsh granddad?

> Quite right Ben. Selected for the All Blacks as a 19 year old, he was
> clearly no overnight sensation. Amazing that he took so long, really.

He's got just 15 caps aged 28. He got his first game aged 22. He's all class
now, but it's taken a long time for him to get the recognition.

--
 Ben Longman

 
 
 

New predictions for Saturday now...? NZ vs ENG, and other rants...

Post by a_wi » Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:50:30


Quote:

> [...]

> > It's just not that exciting watching the likes of Stephan Terblanch
> > being beaten by a journeyman like Kenny Logan, a club player from
> > Scotland...

> Your assessment of Logan is so dismissive that one might think you didn't
> rate him.  Is it just that he 'ought to be crap' because he's a NH player
> or have you been following his progress.

> He's a Scottish international winger, not a journeyman club player.

> regards

> The Green Phantom

Sorry - no disrespect to Logan.... It was more a case of trying to
make a case about Stephany Terblanche...

Agreed Logan is quality player. From what I've seen of him he lacks a
bit of pace, but he's a well rounded player and a smart player at
that. Defensively he's pretty solid as well....

Hell - i'd certainly choose him over Terblanche anyday!

Besides him the only other Scotish player that I truly rate is Gregor
Townsend - he's very underated. He reminds me a bit of Carlos Spencer
- a flair player who can get his backs going.

Scotland also has a young #8 that I saw a bit of in the 6Nations...he
looks like one for the future.