Umaga

Umaga

Post by Paul Lync » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00


Anyone got any opinions on the sending off of Tana Umaga at the weekend?

I thought the send off was justified, but a penalty try??????

 
 
 

Umaga

Post by biff » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

well the basis for the penalty try is it "would have probably been scored"
thats a judgement call so if the foul prevented a "probable" try the ref
was justified
doesnt matter if it was slowing the ball down , offside or a coathanger
tackle the two are seperately dealt with    



Quote:
> Anyone got any opinions on the sending off of Tana Umaga at the weekend?

> I thought the send off was justified, but a penalty try??????


 
 
 

Umaga

Post by Mike Am » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00


Quote:
> Anyone got any opinions on the sending off of Tana Umaga at the
> weekend?
> I thought the send off was justified, but a penalty try??????

The player attrition rate in Super 12 is horrific. Something had to be
done and Paddy O'Brien sent out a clear message. Dangerous coathanger
tackles will not be tolerated, nor will they prevent tries from scored.

Tough on Tana Umaga who was made an example of but IMO definitely in the
best interests of rugby. Tackles like that can maim people for life. I
don't think we have a choice.

 
 
 

Umaga

Post by Mike Am » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00


Quote:
> Anyone got any opinions on the sending off of Tana Umaga at the
> weekend?
> I thought the send off was justified, but a penalty try??????

The player attrition rate in Super 12 is horrific. Something had to be
done and Paddy O'Brien sent out a clear message. Dangerous coathanger
tackles will not be tolerated, nor will they prevent tries from scored.

Tough on Tana Umaga who was made an example of but IMO definitely in the
best interests of rugby. Tackles like that can maim people for life. I
don't think we have a choice.

 
 
 

Umaga

Post by John Cawsto » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Quote:



> > Anyone got any opinions on the sending off of Tana Umaga at the
> > weekend?
> > I thought the send off was justified, but a penalty try??????

> The player attrition rate in Super 12 is horrific. Something had to be
> done and Paddy O'Brien sent out a clear message. Dangerous coathanger
> tackles will not be tolerated, nor will they prevent tries from scored.

> Tough on Tana Umaga who was made an example of but IMO definitely in the
> best interests of rugby. Tackles like that can maim people for life. I
> don't think we have a choice.

Couple of points.

1. If the sending off becomes a consistent penalty, then no problem. But the
likelihood is that it will be a one off, which disadvantages Umaga and the
"Canes.

2. I argued at the time that it was a "reflex" action, but the pure danger
of the coathanger justified the red card.

We had some argument on this in another forum, but part of my justification
was that Paddy and his TJs did nothing about the numerous sneak punches and
off the ball niggles by backs and forwards prior to the sending off. The
"culture" established for the game was thus one of disrespect for players
safety. Thus its possible that Umaga wasn't as innocent as first seen.

3. Paddy made it clear that he saw the action as deliberate. I might
disagree, but he called it as he saw it.

I suspect that the send off will become one of those "one off" judgments
with little consequence except to the 'Canes.

JC

 
 
 

Umaga

Post by Ferdi Greyli » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00



<<>Anyone got any opinions on the sending off of Tana Umaga at the
weekend?>>

He deserved the send off.
It was a cynical neck tackle.

<<>I thought the send off was justified, but a penalty try??????>>

That one was a bit dicey, yes.

 
 
 

Umaga

Post by Kees Ech » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I reckon they should have an orange card. (halfway between a yellow & red
card). This would mean that a player unintentionally going high could be
sent off the field but replaced by another player say 10 mins later. That
way the offender gets punished (and gets to face the judiciary) without the
team being handicapped. As it was, Paddy O'Brien had no option but to send
Umaga off, but the game was as good as over then despite the Hurricanes
brave efforts. I thought the penalty try decision was marginal.


Quote:
> Anyone got any opinions on the sending off of Tana Umaga at the weekend?

> I thought the send off was justified, but a penalty try??????

 
 
 

Umaga

Post by ahen.. » Tue, 14 Mar 2000 04:00:00



The way I saw it - If Umaga had missed a "normal/legal" tackle, Ropati
would have scored (maybe not under the posts, but he would have
scored). There was no cover within cooey as can be seen from the high
view of the move and Umaga was the man furthest back. Therefore, a
penalty try was correct.

As for the sending off - it was high and dangerous, therefore no other
option. When I first saw it during the game I said he was gone (sent
off) even as Ropati was hitting the ground :-)

Quote:
>Anyone got any opinions on the sending off of Tana Umaga at the weekend?

>I thought the send off was justified, but a penalty try??????

 
 
 

Umaga

Post by Tama » Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:00:00

The best fullback in the world closing in on him ???, I think there is no
way you can definitely say a try would have been scored.
Umaga had to go though, it was a bad tackle. I only hope other similar
tackles are dealt with the same way. Fat chance of that though. consistent
referees - an impossible dream.

Tama



Quote:


> The way I saw it - If Umaga had missed a "normal/legal" tackle, Ropati
> would have scored (maybe not under the posts, but he would have
> scored). There was no cover within cooey as can be seen from the high
> view of the move and Umaga was the man furthest back. Therefore, a
> penalty try was correct.

> As for the sending off - it was high and dangerous, therefore no other
> option. When I first saw it during the game I said he was gone (sent
> off) even as Ropati was hitting the ground :-)

> >Anyone got any opinions on the sending off of Tana Umaga at the weekend?

> >I thought the send off was justified, but a penalty try??????

 
 
 

Umaga

Post by Chris Carrol » Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:00:00

The best fullback in the world closing in on him?  I didn't see Matt
Burke playing.  What you have to take into consideration were the 3 or
4 hundred Otago players outside Ropati who would have scored the moment
Cullen got within 10 feet of him.

In the context of the game it was good way for Paddy to maintain
control (there were a lot of niggly punches esp on Kronfeld by
Afeaki).  The tackle was executed (almost literally) with a great deal
of force and was around the neck and/or head or Ropati.  He had to go.

Chris


Quote:

> The best fullback in the world closing in on him ???, I think there
is no
> way you can definitely say a try would have been scored.
> Umaga had to go though, it was a bad tackle. I only hope other similar
> tackles are dealt with the same way. Fat chance of that though.
consistent
> referees - an impossible dream.

> Tama





> > The way I saw it - If Umaga had missed a "normal/legal" tackle,
Ropati
> > would have scored (maybe not under the posts, but he would have
> > scored). There was no cover within cooey as can be seen from the
high
> > view of the move and Umaga was the man furthest back. Therefore, a
> > penalty try was correct.

> > As for the sending off - it was high and dangerous, therefore no
other
> > option. When I first saw it during the game I said he was gone (sent
> > off) even as Ropati was hitting the ground :-)

> > >Anyone got any opinions on the sending off of Tana Umaga at the
weekend?

> > >I thought the send off was justified, but a penalty try??????

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
 
 
 

Umaga

Post by Tama » Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I fully agree he had to go, it was a terrible tackle, and hopefully it has
taught him a lesson (yeah right).
As to whether a try would definitely have been scored - well I have my
doubts, as do others. Obviously you (and more importantly Paddy)  saw it
differently.
From my point of view - if there are any doubts - it shouldnt be a penalty
try.

Tama



Quote:
> The best fullback in the world closing in on him?  I didn't see Matt
> Burke playing.  What you have to take into consideration were the 3 or
> 4 hundred Otago players outside Ropati who would have scored the moment
> Cullen got within 10 feet of him.

> In the context of the game it was good way for Paddy to maintain
> control (there were a lot of niggly punches esp on Kronfeld by
> Afeaki).  The tackle was executed (almost literally) with a great deal
> of force and was around the neck and/or head or Ropati.  He had to go.

> Chris



> > The best fullback in the world closing in on him ???, I think there
> is no
> > way you can definitely say a try would have been scored.
> > Umaga had to go though, it was a bad tackle. I only hope other similar
> > tackles are dealt with the same way. Fat chance of that though.
> consistent
> > referees - an impossible dream.

> > Tama





> > > The way I saw it - If Umaga had missed a "normal/legal" tackle,
> Ropati
> > > would have scored (maybe not under the posts, but he would have
> > > scored). There was no cover within cooey as can be seen from the
> high
> > > view of the move and Umaga was the man furthest back. Therefore, a
> > > penalty try was correct.

> > > As for the sending off - it was high and dangerous, therefore no
> other
> > > option. When I first saw it during the game I said he was gone (sent
> > > off) even as Ropati was hitting the ground :-)

> > > >Anyone got any opinions on the sending off of Tana Umaga at the
> weekend?

> > > >I thought the send off was justified, but a penalty try??????

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

 
 
 

Umaga

Post by Paul Ker » Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> I fully agree he had to go, it was a terrible tackle, and hopefully it has
> taught him a lesson (yeah right).
> As to whether a try would definitely have been scored - well I have my
> doubts, as do others. Obviously you (and more importantly Paddy)  saw it
> differently.
> From my point of view - if there are any doubts - it shouldnt be a penalty
> try.

> Tama

What about the weeks suspension from the judiciary?

--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Cheers PK~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   "Fishing for a good time starts with throwing in a line"
                      Tom Waits.

 
 
 

Umaga

Post by Tama » Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:00:00

I actually thought they would suspend him for longer. As I said previously
- I dont have aproblem with his suspension - as long as other players
guilty of the same offence are treated the same way. One week + the red
card should be a good enough lesson for any professional rugby player.

Tama


Quote:


> > I fully agree he had to go, it was a terrible tackle, and hopefully it
has
> > taught him a lesson (yeah right).
> > As to whether a try would definitely have been scored - well I have my
> > doubts, as do others. Obviously you (and more importantly Paddy)  saw
it
> > differently.
> > From my point of view - if there are any doubts - it shouldnt be a
penalty
> > try.

> > Tama

> What about the weeks suspension from the judiciary?

> --

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Cheers PK~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>    "Fishing for a good time starts with throwing in a line"
>                       Tom Waits.

 
 
 

Umaga

Post by Matt Neilso » Wed, 15 Mar 2000 04:00:00


Quote:
> I fully agree he had to go, it was a terrible tackle, and
hopefully it has
> taught him a lesson (yeah right).
> As to whether a try would definitely have been scored - well I
have my
> doubts, as do others. Obviously you (and more importantly
Paddy)  saw it
> differently.
> From my point of view - if there are any doubts - it shouldnt
be a penalty
> try.

The law doesn't require the try to *definitely would have been
scored* anymore, not sure what the current interpretation is
though?

cheers, Matt

 
 
 

Umaga

Post by Paul Ker » Thu, 16 Mar 2000 04:00:00

Quote:



> > I fully agree he had to go, it was a terrible tackle, and
> hopefully it has
> > taught him a lesson (yeah right).
> > As to whether a try would definitely have been scored - well I
> have my
> > doubts, as do others. Obviously you (and more importantly
> Paddy)  saw it
> > differently.
> > From my point of view - if there are any doubts - it shouldnt
> be a penalty
> > try.
> The law doesn't require the try to *definitely would have been
> scored* anymore, not sure what the current interpretation is
> though?

> cheers, Matt

Probable is the key word, if the try was probably going to be scored
then a penalty try can be awarded. Paddy Obrien was quoted in the ODT as
saying
"I believe the tackle prevented Ropati scoring, so that's a penalty
try."
pretty cut and dried I can't really see any controversy in either of his
decisions regarding the incident with Umanga. Couldn't say the same for
all decisions he made throughout the game but then can that be said of
any referee.
--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Cheers PK~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   "Fishing for a good time starts with throwing in a line"
                      Tom Waits.