England's Failure To Dare Cost Them......by Simon Halliday

England's Failure To Dare Cost Them......by Simon Halliday

Post by SirG » Fri, 29 Mar 2013 19:07:02


http://tinyurl.com/d5u3u6x
 
 
 

England's Failure To Dare Cost Them......by Simon Halliday

Post by willsutto » Sat, 30 Mar 2013 09:53:21


Quote:
> http://tinyurl.com/d5u3u6x

just a couple of paragraphs

"It s been a shambles and the referees have had a major part to play
when they should be as invisible as possible. They may say that they are
only following the laws, but even the best practitioners in the dark
arts, like Brian Moore, are completely mystified by some decisions."

now have you ever read a paragraph that is more SPOT on

"Also I am bored to tears with the debate raging over Steve Walsh s
performance in Cardiff penalising the English scrum off the park, as if
the result would have been affected. Teams certainly scrummage now for
penalties and not as an attacking platform to score tries."

also spot on

"Even now, the horror facts behind the Scotland v Wales game still
grate. There was a record number of penalties scored, meaning that the
crowd had to endure a full half an hour of goal kickers lining up and
interminable scrummages, more than 50% of which ended in penalties, cue
the goal kicking."

blame the coaches, blame the refs or blame the players ?

 
 
 

England's Failure To Dare Cost Them......by Simon Halliday

Post by kev or lo » Sat, 30 Mar 2013 11:38:23


Quote:

> "Even now, the horror facts behind the Scotland v Wales game still
> grate. There was a record number of penalties scored, meaning that the
> crowd had to endure a full half an hour of goal kickers lining up and
> interminable scrummages, more than 50% of which ended in penalties, cue
> the goal kicking."

> blame the coaches, blame the refs or blame the players ?

If he'd started yellow carding things might have been different.

 
 
 

England's Failure To Dare Cost Them......by Simon Halliday

Post by willsutto » Sat, 30 Mar 2013 13:27:25


Quote:

>> "Even now, the horror facts behind the Scotland v Wales game still
>> grate. There was a record number of penalties scored, meaning that the
>> crowd had to endure a full half an hour of goal kickers lining up and
>> interminable scrummages, more than 50% of which ended in penalties, cue
>> the goal kicking."

>> blame the coaches, blame the refs or blame the players ?

> If he'd started yellow carding things might have been different.

my solution :  free kicks ONLY from scrums but the referee is encouraged
to yellow card the entire front rows
 
 
 

England's Failure To Dare Cost Them......by Simon Halliday

Post by Mentalguy2k » Sat, 30 Mar 2013 20:49:30


Quote:


>>> "Even now, the horror facts behind the Scotland v Wales game still
>>> grate. There was a record number of penalties scored, meaning that the
>>> crowd had to endure a full half an hour of goal kickers lining up and
>>> interminable scrummages, more than 50% of which ended in penalties, cue
>>> the goal kicking."

>>> blame the coaches, blame the refs or blame the players ?

>> If he'd started yellow carding things might have been different.

> my solution :  free kicks ONLY from scrums but the referee is encouraged
> to yellow card the entire front rows

But that incentivises one or other team to cheat more. If (as has been
suggested) Wales dropped scrums deliberately and England got the blame, this
will only make them do it more. If you can break the rules but make the
referee think it's the other team's fault, then it will happen. Human
nature, all about getting that advantage.

It seems to me that the straight feed or the early push isn't the problem,
it's the complete mess that's going on afterwards which is so difficult for
referees to get right. I think they've tried to judge it on which team would
gain the most benefit from knackering a scrum unless it's too obvious to
ignore, but that only makes their opponents more likely to force them down.
Or up, or out or whatever. If they know that someone like Walsh has quickly
decided the English scrum is wonky, not binding, collapsing etc., then let's
make it look even more wonky, not binding, collapsing etc and rack up the
free kicks and penalties. It's not so much about being clever and giving
Walsh what he *wants*, it's about being even more clever and making Walsh
think the other team are giving him what he *doesn't* want and make him
frustrated against the opponent. Free kicks, penalties, sin-bins, field
position, you've got everything to gain.

 
 
 

England's Failure To Dare Cost Them......by Simon Halliday

Post by kev or lo » Sat, 30 Mar 2013 23:40:02


Quote:





>>>> "Even now, the horror facts behind the Scotland v Wales game still
>>>> grate. There was a record number of penalties scored, meaning that the
>>>> crowd had to endure a full half an hour of goal kickers lining up and
>>>> interminable scrummages, more than 50% of which ended in penalties, cue
>>>> the goal kicking."

>>>> blame the coaches, blame the refs or blame the players ?

>>> If he'd started yellow carding things might have been different.

>> my solution :  free kicks ONLY from scrums but the referee is
>> encouraged to yellow card the entire front rows

> But that incentivises one or other team to cheat more. If (as has been
> suggested) Wales dropped scrums deliberately and England got the blame,
> this will only make them do it more. If you can break the rules but make
> the referee think it's the other team's fault, then it will happen.
> Human nature, all about getting that advantage.

> It seems to me that the straight feed or the early push isn't the
> problem, it's the complete mess that's going on afterwards which is so
> difficult for referees to get right. I think they've tried to judge it
> on which team would gain the most benefit from knackering a scrum unless
> it's too obvious to ignore, but that only makes their opponents more
> likely to force them down. Or up, or out or whatever. If they know that
> someone like Walsh has quickly decided the English scrum is wonky, not
> binding, collapsing etc., then let's make it look even more wonky, not
> binding, collapsing etc and rack up the free kicks and penalties. It's
> not so much about being clever and giving Walsh what he *wants*, it's
> about being even more clever and making Walsh think the other team are
> giving him what he *doesn't* want and make him frustrated against the
> opponent. Free kicks, penalties, sin-bins, field position, you've got
> everything to gain.

Hey you two, this is in regard to the Scot Wal game - most of the pens
were away from the scrum.
 
 
 

England's Failure To Dare Cost Them......by Simon Halliday

Post by willsutto » Sun, 31 Mar 2013 10:21:20


Quote:





>>>> "Even now, the horror facts behind the Scotland v Wales game still
>>>> grate. There was a record number of penalties scored, meaning that the
>>>> crowd had to endure a full half an hour of goal kickers lining up and
>>>> interminable scrummages, more than 50% of which ended in penalties, cue
>>>> the goal kicking."

>>>> blame the coaches, blame the refs or blame the players ?

>>> If he'd started yellow carding things might have been different.

>> my solution :  free kicks ONLY from scrums but the referee is
>> encouraged to yellow card the entire front rows

> But that incentivises one or other team to cheat more. If (as has been
> suggested) Wales dropped scrums deliberately and England got the blame,
> this will only make them do it more. If you can break the rules but make
> the referee think it's the other team's fault, then it will happen.
> Human nature, all about getting that advantage.

> It seems to me that the straight feed or the early push isn't the
> problem, it's the complete mess that's going on afterwards which is so
> difficult for referees to get right. I think they've tried to judge it
> on which team would gain the most benefit from knackering a scrum unless
> it's too obvious to ignore, but that only makes their opponents more
> likely to force them down. Or up, or out or whatever. If they know that
> someone like Walsh has quickly decided the English scrum is wonky, not
> binding, collapsing etc., then let's make it look even more wonky, not
> binding, collapsing etc and rack up the free kicks and penalties. It's
> not so much about being clever and giving Walsh what he *wants*, it's
> about being even more clever and making Walsh think the other team are
> giving him what he *doesn't* want and make him frustrated against the
> opponent. Free kicks, penalties, sin-bins, field position, you've got
> everything to gain.

  How can you grab the jumper when they are now skin tight ?

Props collapse under pressure , most times they don't do it deliberately
so penalties are harsh ?

The ref still has the option of penalizing for professional foul if he
thinks its deliberate as well as yellow card

Look the Waratahs won by 3 points against the Blues and they scored a 3
points for the Blues prop slipping his bind but the replay showed
clearly it was the Tahs prop that dropped the bind first  ... this
penalty was from the assistant ref ( touchie )