Walsh - England to complain to IRB

Walsh - England to complain to IRB

Post by Mentalguy2k » Sat, 23 Mar 2013 00:27:50



Quote:
>> I've never liked Walsh when he referees England so I'm inclined to
>> believe that if he had the chance to be extra-vigilant towards us and
>> turn a blind eye to the Welsh, he would. If it was anyone else it would
>> be incompetence but with Walsh, there's something more. He's quite
>> capable of refereeing properly when he wants to, and again, England
>> aren't the only team to complain about his "style".

> No I get what you're saying, and possibly they only have a certain amount
> of time to raise the issues (a deadline etc), but this does LOOK like
> England fishing for excuses - whether the media are intent on making it
> look that way or the whole of Wales etc.

Yes, very fair point. Maybe it will make the IRB think twice about
appointing him for any future England games though. And maybe that's what
Lancaster is thinking.

Tricky situation for Lancaster though, if he genuinely believes that his
players trained for and executed what Walsh said he expected of them but
still fell foul, then he should ask for "clarification". I'd like to think
he'd have raised the same issues had we won, because it's still going to be
a problem if we're ever (God forbid) refereed by him again.

 
 
 

Walsh - England to complain to IRB

Post by Gib Bogl » Sat, 23 Mar 2013 06:05:00


Quote:

> I'm totally OK with this: the refereeing through the 6N was poor and
> heavily interpretative, and I'm thinking more on non-England games.
> I'm bored of endless scrum resets. I'm bored of spinning a coin at
> the breakdown to see which side gets penalised for holding on or not
> releasing, or going over the ball or going off their feet.

Agree

Quote:
> I'm also bemused as to why the IRB doesn't enforce simple laws like
> scrum put ins and players not handling the ball on the ground in
> rucks. I lose count in games of the times when the tackled player
> holds the ball steady for the scrum half or pops a pass away after
> his side have rucked past him.

Yes

Quote:
> I don't understand why it's ok to clear defenders out of rucks by
> wrestling them away by the neck and yet the IRB gets its panties in
> an utter twist over very marginal tip tackles.

Yes!  Why is it OK to use ***holds in a ruck?

 
 
 

Walsh - England to complain to IRB

Post by kev or lo » Sat, 23 Mar 2013 06:41:09


Quote:

>> I'm totally OK with this: the refereeing through the 6N was poor and
>> heavily interpretative, and I'm thinking more on non-England games.
>> I'm bored of endless scrum resets. I'm bored of spinning a coin at
>> the breakdown to see which side gets penalised for holding on or not
>> releasing, or going over the ball or going off their feet.

> Agree

>> I'm also bemused as to why the IRB doesn't enforce simple laws like
>> scrum put ins and players not handling the ball on the ground in
>> rucks. I lose count in games of the times when the tackled player
>> holds the ball steady for the scrum half or pops a pass away after
>> his side have rucked past him.

> Yes

>> I don't understand why it's ok to clear defenders out of rucks by
>> wrestling them away by the neck and yet the IRB gets its panties in
>> an utter twist over very marginal tip tackles.

> Yes!  Why is it OK to use ***holds in a ruck?

Because tip tackles can cause severe injury and severe injury = all
manner of problems for the IRB.

I do hate the latest trend though of just pulling anyone trying to
compete in a ruck off their feet/or atleast stop them supporting their
own weight because they are actually unable to drive through the ruck in
a proper fashion. I don't blame them, but it stinks nonetheless.

 
 
 

Walsh - England to complain to IRB

Post by Gib Bogl » Sat, 23 Mar 2013 07:43:03


Quote:
>> Yes!  Why is it OK to use ***holds in a ruck?

> Because tip tackles can cause severe injury and severe injury = all
> manner of problems for the IRB.

Very harmless "high" tackles are penalized while no attention is given
to *** in the ruck.  It doesn't make sense to me.
 
 
 

Walsh - England to complain to IRB

Post by kev or lo » Sat, 23 Mar 2013 17:59:46


Quote:

>>> Yes!  Why is it OK to use ***holds in a ruck?

>> Because tip tackles can cause severe injury and severe injury = all
>> manner of problems for the IRB.

> Very harmless "high" tackles are penalized while no attention is given
> to *** in the ruck.  It doesn't make sense to me.

Because it's not *** per se.
 
 
 

Walsh - England to complain to IRB

Post by admulhe.. » Sat, 23 Mar 2013 20:12:52


Quote:


> >> I'm totally OK with this: the refereeing through the 6N was poor and

> >> heavily interpretative, and I'm thinking more on non-England games.

> >> I'm bored of endless scrum resets. I'm bored of spinning a coin at

> >> the breakdown to see which side gets penalised for holding on or not

> >> releasing, or going over the ball or going off their feet.

> > Agree

> >> I'm also bemused as to why the IRB doesn't enforce simple laws like

> >> scrum put ins and players not handling the ball on the ground in

> >> rucks. I lose count in games of the times when the tackled player

> >> holds the ball steady for the scrum half or pops a pass away after

> >> his side have rucked past him.

> > Yes

> >> I don't understand why it's ok to clear defenders out of rucks by

> >> wrestling them away by the neck and yet the IRB gets its panties in

> >> an utter twist over very marginal tip tackles.

> > Yes!  Why is it OK to use ***holds in a ruck?

> Because tip tackles can cause severe injury and severe injury = all

> manner of problems for the IRB.

> I do hate the latest trend though of just pulling anyone trying to

> compete in a ruck off their feet/or atleast stop them supporting their

> own weight because they are actually unable to drive through the ruck in

> a proper fashion. I don't blame them, but it stinks nonetheless.

Agreed. I don't like the pulling over and would much prefer that the defence has to push the player back towards their goal line. There can be some sideways component but the direction of the push has to be such that the player competing for the ball has to go backwards.

I seem to recall seeing quite a bit of clearing out defenders not bound to the ruck as well but could be wrong.
--
Andy

 
 
 

Walsh - England to complain to IRB

Post by BrritSk » Sat, 23 Mar 2013 21:39:29


Quote:


>>>> Yes!  Why is it OK to use ***holds in a ruck?

>>> Because tip tackles can cause severe injury and severe injury = all
>>> manner of problems for the IRB.

>> Very harmless "high" tackles are penalized while no attention is given
>> to *** in the ruck.  It doesn't make sense to me.

> Because it's not *** per se.

Unless it's the pre 2011 ABs.

I thangyew....

 
 
 

Walsh - England to complain to IRB

Post by mr_tiger_fis » Sat, 23 Mar 2013 23:06:39

Quote:

> I can't see the point of Lancaster's comment regarding the breakdown

> leading to the first try. Even if there were some heinous event, refs

> make mistakes. The general approach to the breakdown would be a

> potentially legitimate area to complain, but as it happens on the day

> I though England just had too few players, especially opensides, at

> the breakdown. If Walsh had said one thing pre game, but used a

> different approach on the field, that would be pretty miserable, but

> hard to prove. I would be very surprised if that had happened, too.

I can't see 'the point' of it either since it will no doubt produce yet more vitriolic reaction from the IRB as well as the wider rugby community and have no positive outcome for England. I suppose the reason for the beef would be Owens, blatantly off his feet, diving into Parling to dislodge the ball for the turnover which led to the try. He'd had one go as Parling went to ground - and almost dislodged the ball but Parling managed to hang on. The second attempt looked an obvious pen to England - to me anyway.

Quote:

> The scrum needs a revamp, regardless of whether Wales were pulling a

> sneaky or not. England need to be able to cope with sneakies though,

> so the responsibility lies on them to improve there. Don't blame the

> ref - be better.

Wales weren't pulling any particular sneaky that produced advantage that they couldn't get by putting pressure on Marler. He was absolutely smashed at scrum time by Jones and if Rowntree can't see that he shouldn't be coaching. As for the comments by Walsh toward Tom Youngs early in the second half, I've watched it a couple of times and can't see what it was all about. The ***s always adjust marginally to take the hit - it's not nice going into contact head on. I agree with Brian Moore's commentary at that point. "give him the whistle and you have a go". I really have no idea why that famed Walsh red mist came down over that particular scrum.
 
 
 

Walsh - England to complain to IRB

Post by caspar milquetoas » Tue, 26 Mar 2013 17:57:56

Quote:

> In fairness to Lancaster, the Telegraph article is trollbait. The BBC's
> article is less trolly and talks more about seeking clarification:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21853814 I'm totally OK with
> this: the refereeing through the 6N was poor and heavily interpretative,
> and I'm thinking more on non-England games. I'm bored of endless
> scrum resets. I'm bored of spinning a coin at the breakdown to
> see which side gets penalised for holding on or not releasing, or
> going over the ball

There seems to be increasing amounts of this. Not only players diving over the ruck, but staying on their feet and driving opposition players (also on their feet) out of the ruck and back down the ground. Not to mention clearing out players loitering around the fringes. Attacking forwards have no right being past the hindmost foor, let alone past the ball and the opposition hindmost foot. The reason I think this is tolerated is because it takes players from both sides out of the game and frees up the ball for positive use, but it's an ugly sight for purists.  

Quote:
> or going off their feet. I'm also bemused as to why the IRB doesn't
> enforce simple laws like scrum put ins and players not handling the
> ball on the ground in rucks.

How is the ball ever supposed to leave a ruck in modern interpretation? By grasping the laces in your teeth?

The breakdown is such a tricky thing to change without upsetting all sorts of other balances. The laws desperately need to be rewritten to reflect what actually happens in games, for a start. Although if I was king of the world, bringing back proper rucking would be top of my list.

 
 
 

Walsh - England to complain to IRB

Post by caspar milquetoas » Tue, 26 Mar 2013 17:59:50

Unless it's at the world cup.

Oh sorry, wrong thread.