Trouble in Melbourne

Trouble in Melbourne

Post by S » Mon, 04 Jan 2010 15:13:51



Quote:




> >>http://SportToday.org/

> >> Oh dear oh dear, what a shame, what a pity...

> > Leaving aside the funding problems, the 'we could have Rocky Elsom lined
> > up' bit is part of the reason Australia should never have been given a
> > fifth team in the first place. ?Players moving to the most recent new team
> > in Perth caused other teams to become weaker - there aren't enough players
> > of sufficient quality.

> > The Super rugby model is bollocks.

> > Andrew

> Meanwhile in the UK the game goes from strength to strength. Grounds are
> expanding almost everywhere and record crowds are getting boring. The
> Heineken cup gives us all the international rivalry we need, and it seems
> that domestic comps throughout the NH are in rude health. It's a shame about
> the international game, but I increasingly care less and less about that,
> and will continue to do so until England do something that shows some sort
> of thought has gone into things.

The trouble is Simon what you, Andrew and I may interpret as a game
going in the right direction we do not share the same view as our
administrators.
The 15th side in Melbourne added a lot of money to the pot and thats
what the administrators want to see.
SANZAR make an absolute fortune out of Super Rugby. So they would
consider that to be healthy,

The Melbourne finances don't stack up though.
SA had their finances sorted but it added less money to the pot so
they got gonged.

Of course the solution was not to add the 15th side at all. 14 is too
many.
* Our travel distances are a bit of a ***. This issue should not be
underestimated.
* The countries don't have enough players to support extra teams.
Maybe the addition of the Argies to 3N will help player pools in the
S15
* But most important the Super 15 compromises the rugby we love the
most. NZs NPC and SA Currie Cup has been compromised. Imagine the HC
causing your Premiership to never field its stars. SA fought this
battle but lost.

In SA anyway our crowds have been good. Remember we have always had
decent size crowds so growing the crowds is a lot harder. Growing from
20 or 30 k per game is tougher than growing from 5k per game

 
 
 

Trouble in Melbourne

Post by S » Mon, 04 Jan 2010 15:23:08


Quote:






> >>>>http://SportToday.org/
> >>>> Oh dear oh dear, what a shame, what a pity...
> >>> Leaving aside the funding problems, the 'we could have Rocky Elsom lined
> >>> up' bit is part of the reason Australia should never have been given a
> >>> fifth team in the first place. ?Players moving to the most recent new team
> >>> in Perth caused other teams to become weaker - there aren't enough players
> >>> of sufficient quality.
> >>> The Super rugby model is bollocks.
> >>> Andrew
> >> Meanwhile in the UK the game goes from strength to strength. Grounds are
> >> expanding almost everywhere and record crowds are getting boring. The
> >> Heineken cup gives us all the international rivalry we need, and it seems
> >> that domestic comps throughout the NH are in rude health. It's a shame about
> >> the international game, but I increasingly care less and less about that,
> >> and will continue to do so until England do something that shows some sort
> >> of thought has gone into things.

> > Just 10 years ago you barely had any of this. I watched a game between
> > Wasps and Sale (in 1999) with maybe a couple of hundred supporters in
> > the stadium. So the last 10 years have seen massive growth in the NH
> > club rugby game, whereas the SH experienced the professional growth
> > era earlier, and now we're coming to a crossroads.

> > 1) It's nothing really special that's happening, you're just playing
> > catchup, but with the economic clout that Europe has, naturally you'll
> > attract the SH players.

> > 2) You're in the honeymoon years, you'll most likely have to deal with
> > the marketing geniuses ***ing up the game sooner or later.

> > 3) You also mistake us griping about the marketing geniuses with the
> > actual state of the SH game. Crowds are still large, and we still have
> > *** of the NH in internationals.

> Mark let's be clear about this: England are, without question, the
> *** world cup side of this century.
> SA and OZ can't match us at the RWC, and NZ are an irritating bogey side
> between tournaments, nothing more.
> Now, perhaps you'd like to amend *still* have *** to *currently*
> have *** before I mention 53-3?

> > That said, I still feel like ever increasing expansion of Super rugby
> > is the wrong approach.

Yeah Didge, you sound like the English soccer supporters talking about
1966.
No argument from 2001 to 2004 you had the wood over us. 2005 and 2009
we never played
But since then see below. I see a 58-10, 36-0 and 42-6 (at Twickers no
less)

18 Nov 2006     Lose: 21-23     Twickenham, London
25 Nov 2006     Win: 25-14      Twickenham, London
26 May 2007     Win: 58-10      Free State Stadium, Bloemfontein
02 Jun 2007     Win: 55-22      Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria
14 Sep 2007     Win: 36-0       Stade de France, Paris
20 Oct 2007     Win: 15-6       Stade de France, Paris
22 Nov 2008     Win: 42-6       Twickenham, London

I still like the 15-6 one.

But yes Super Rugby is the wrong approach.
Everyone except those running the game agree.

 
 
 

Trouble in Melbourne

Post by DC » Mon, 04 Jan 2010 21:48:06

Quote:

> In SA anyway our crowds have been good. Remember we have always had
> decent size crowds so growing the crowds is a lot harder. Growing from
> 20 or 30 k per game is tougher than growing from 5k per game

Any official stats on averarge (top division) CC crowds last year?  Or
on S14 crowds for games played in SA?

According to this
http://www.oocities.com/worldfootballrankings2004/Top125Leagues.html
the average CC crowd in 2004 was 11.4k, and it was down 19% from 2002.

But who knows were they get their stats and whether it includes all 14
CC teams, or just top division.  Crowds for Boland or SWD is probably a
lot different than for WP or Natal. (*)

Do you think crowds would have increased since 2004?

GP crowds are now averaging 10k, so maybe CC (across all 14 teams) and
GP crowdss are converging.

According to this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attendance_figures_at_domestic_p...
the average S14 attendance was 21k (no reference cited), which may be
closer to average for top CC division?

(*) I'm not living in the past, I just prefer using geographic rather
than nick names (marketing names) in a worldwide forum, since there are
at least 2 professional rugby teams called "Sharks".

 
 
 

Trouble in Melbourne

Post by DC » Mon, 04 Jan 2010 22:03:35

Quote:


>> In SA anyway our crowds have been good. Remember we have always had
>> decent size crowds so growing the crowds is a lot harder. Growing from
>> 20 or 30 k per game is tougher than growing from 5k per game

> Any official stats on averarge (top division) CC crowds last year?  Or
> on S14 crowds for games played in SA?

> According to this
> http://www.oocities.com/worldfootballrankings2004/Top125Leagues.html
> the average CC crowd in 2004 was 11.4k, and it was down 19% from 2002.

> But who knows were they get their stats and whether it includes all 14
> CC teams, or just top division.  Crowds for Boland or SWD is probably a
> lot different than for WP or Natal. (*)

> Do you think crowds would have increased since 2004?

This site http://wapedia.mobi/en/2009_Currie_Cup_Premier_Division
lists attendance for many but not all 2009 CC Premier Division games,
and there are early round matches with attendance of 850 or 1000. Up to
round 6 highest attendance is about 24k, and a quick guestimate
indicates an average of 10k wouldn't be far off.

 From round 8 it picks up (eg. Sharks-WP, 28k; WP-Bulls, 43k) -- I guess
that was when the Springboks returned from the 3N?

But even then, from the figures shown, it appears the big stadia never
sold out during the group stages -- would that be a correct assessment?

So to get back to SS-B's original points, if Leicester, Wasps,
Gloucester, Northampton or Bath played regular matches in 30k+ stadia,
then the GP attendance would probably get a considerable boost -- even
though they might not sell out each week, just like Newlands or Loftus
does not sell out. (And I don't believe London Irish or Saracens sell
out their 21/23k stadia.)

 
 
 

Trouble in Melbourne

Post by Simon S- » Tue, 05 Jan 2010 01:05:11


Quote:


>>> In SA anyway our crowds have been good. Remember we have always had
>>> decent size crowds so growing the crowds is a lot harder. Growing from
>>> 20 or 30 k per game is tougher than growing from 5k per game

>> Any official stats on averarge (top division) CC crowds last year?  Or on
>> S14 crowds for games played in SA?

>> According to this
>> http://www.oocities.com/worldfootballrankings2004/Top125Leagues.html
>> the average CC crowd in 2004 was 11.4k, and it was down 19% from 2002.

>> But who knows were they get their stats and whether it includes all 14 CC
>> teams, or just top division.  Crowds for Boland or SWD is probably a lot
>> different than for WP or Natal. (*)

>> Do you think crowds would have increased since 2004?

> This site http://wapedia.mobi/en/2009_Currie_Cup_Premier_Division
> lists attendance for many but not all 2009 CC Premier Division games, and
> there are early round matches with attendance of 850 or 1000. Up to round
> 6 highest attendance is about 24k, and a quick guestimate indicates an
> average of 10k wouldn't be far off.

> From round 8 it picks up (eg. Sharks-WP, 28k; WP-Bulls, 43k) -- I guess
> that was when the Springboks returned from the 3N?

> But even then, from the figures shown, it appears the big stadia never
> sold out during the group stages -- would that be a correct assessment?

> So to get back to SS-B's original points, if Leicester, Wasps, Gloucester,
> Northampton or Bath played regular matches in 30k+ stadia, then the GP
> attendance would probably get a considerable boost -- even though they
> might not sell out each week, just like Newlands or Loftus does not sell
> out. (And I don't believe London Irish or Saracens sell out their 21/23k
> stadia.)

Don't forget TV revenue's either. When was the last time you saw an NPC/ANZ
game on TV here? It used to be shown all the time. Currie cup is another one
that is hardly broadcast here these days.
 
 
 

Trouble in Melbourne

Post by Andrew Dunfor » Thu, 07 Jan 2010 09:45:47


Quote:





>>>> In SA anyway our crowds have been good. Remember we have always had
>>>> decent size crowds so growing the crowds is a lot harder. Growing from
>>>> 20 or 30 k per game is tougher than growing from 5k per game

>>> Any official stats on averarge (top division) CC crowds last year?  Or
>>> on S14 crowds for games played in SA?

>>> According to this
>>> http://www.oocities.com/worldfootballrankings2004/Top125Leagues.html
>>> the average CC crowd in 2004 was 11.4k, and it was down 19% from 2002.

>>> But who knows were they get their stats and whether it includes all 14
>>> CC teams, or just top division.  Crowds for Boland or SWD is probably a
>>> lot different than for WP or Natal. (*)

>>> Do you think crowds would have increased since 2004?

>> This site http://wapedia.mobi/en/2009_Currie_Cup_Premier_Division
>> lists attendance for many but not all 2009 CC Premier Division games, and
>> there are early round matches with attendance of 850 or 1000. Up to round
>> 6 highest attendance is about 24k, and a quick guestimate indicates an
>> average of 10k wouldn't be far off.

>> From round 8 it picks up (eg. Sharks-WP, 28k; WP-Bulls, 43k) -- I guess
>> that was when the Springboks returned from the 3N?

>> But even then, from the figures shown, it appears the big stadia never
>> sold out during the group stages -- would that be a correct assessment?

>> So to get back to SS-B's original points, if Leicester, Wasps,
>> Gloucester, Northampton or Bath played regular matches in 30k+ stadia,
>> then the GP attendance would probably get a considerable boost -- even
>> though they might not sell out each week, just like Newlands or Loftus
>> does not sell out. (And I don't believe London Irish or Saracens sell out
>> their 21/23k stadia.)

> Don't forget TV revenue's either. When was the last time you saw an
> NPC/ANZ game on TV here? It used to be shown all the time. Currie cup is
> another one that is hardly broadcast here these days.

It's the summer - we have an off-season down here.

Andrew

 
 
 

Trouble in Melbourne

Post by Simon S- » Thu, 07 Jan 2010 23:25:25


Quote:







>>>>> In SA anyway our crowds have been good. Remember we have always had
>>>>> decent size crowds so growing the crowds is a lot harder. Growing from
>>>>> 20 or 30 k per game is tougher than growing from 5k per game

>>>> Any official stats on averarge (top division) CC crowds last year?  Or
>>>> on S14 crowds for games played in SA?

>>>> According to this
>>>> http://www.oocities.com/worldfootballrankings2004/Top125Leagues.html
>>>> the average CC crowd in 2004 was 11.4k, and it was down 19% from 2002.

>>>> But who knows were they get their stats and whether it includes all 14
>>>> CC teams, or just top division.  Crowds for Boland or SWD is probably a
>>>> lot different than for WP or Natal. (*)

>>>> Do you think crowds would have increased since 2004?

>>> This site http://wapedia.mobi/en/2009_Currie_Cup_Premier_Division
>>> lists attendance for many but not all 2009 CC Premier Division games,
>>> and there are early round matches with attendance of 850 or 1000. Up to
>>> round 6 highest attendance is about 24k, and a quick guestimate
>>> indicates an average of 10k wouldn't be far off.

>>> From round 8 it picks up (eg. Sharks-WP, 28k; WP-Bulls, 43k) -- I guess
>>> that was when the Springboks returned from the 3N?

>>> But even then, from the figures shown, it appears the big stadia never
>>> sold out during the group stages -- would that be a correct assessment?

>>> So to get back to SS-B's original points, if Leicester, Wasps,
>>> Gloucester, Northampton or Bath played regular matches in 30k+ stadia,
>>> then the GP attendance would probably get a considerable boost -- even
>>> though they might not sell out each week, just like Newlands or Loftus
>>> does not sell out. (And I don't believe London Irish or Saracens sell
>>> out their 21/23k stadia.)

>> Don't forget TV revenue's either. When was the last time you saw an
>> NPC/ANZ game on TV here? It used to be shown all the time. Currie cup is
>> another one that is hardly broadcast here these days.

> It's the summer - we have an off-season down here.

> Andrew

Lol - yes I know, but my guess would be that SH fans over here will have
noticed a reduction in the game coverage even before our season started.
 
 
 

Trouble in Melbourne

Post by newsgrou » Fri, 08 Jan 2010 01:42:34


Quote:





[...]

Quote:
> >> Don't forget TV revenue's either. When was the last time you saw an
> >> NPC/ANZ game on TV here? It used to be shown all the time. Currie cup is
> >> another one that is hardly broadcast here these days.

> > It's the summer - we have an off-season down here.

> > Andrew

> Lol - yes I know, but my guess would be that SH fans over here will have
> noticed a reduction in the game coverage even before our season started.

Yes, and it pisses me off. They had ice hockey on Sky Sports 2 instead
of a big Currie Cup game in 2009. Ice Hockey for good sake.
 
 
 

Trouble in Melbourne

Post by Two Dog » Fri, 08 Jan 2010 02:02:55



Quote:





> [...]

> > >> Don't forget TV revenue's either. When was the last time you saw an
> > >> NPC/ANZ game on TV here? It used to be shown all the time. Currie cup is
> > >> another one that is hardly broadcast here these days.

> > > It's the summer - we have an off-season down here.

> > > Andrew

> > Lol - yes I know, but my guess would be that SH fans over here will have
> > noticed a reduction in the game coverage even before our season started.

> Yes, and it pisses me off. They had ice hockey on Sky Sports 2 instead
> of a big Currie Cup game in 2009. Ice Hockey for good sake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HSrwGULOjo

Two Dogs

 
 
 

Trouble in Melbourne

Post by Brent Hadle » Fri, 08 Jan 2010 09:06:35


Quote:




> >>> In SA anyway our crowds have been good. Remember we have always had
> >>> decent size crowds so growing the crowds is a lot harder. Growing from
> >>> 20 or 30 k per game is tougher than growing from 5k per game

> >> Any official stats on averarge (top division) CC crowds last year? ?Or on
> >> S14 crowds for games played in SA?

> >> According to this
> >>http://SportToday.org/
> >> the average CC crowd in 2004 was 11.4k, and it was down 19% from 2002.

> >> But who knows were they get their stats and whether it includes all 14 CC
> >> teams, or just top division. ?Crowds for Boland or SWD is probably a lot
> >> different than for WP or Natal. (*)

> >> Do you think crowds would have increased since 2004?

> > This sitehttp://SportToday.org/
> > lists attendance for many but not all 2009 CC Premier Division games, and
> > there are early round matches with attendance of 850 or 1000. Up to round
> > 6 highest attendance is about 24k, and a quick guestimate indicates an
> > average of 10k wouldn't be far off.

> > From round 8 it picks up (eg. Sharks-WP, 28k; WP-Bulls, 43k) -- I guess
> > that was when the Springboks returned from the 3N?

> > But even then, from the figures shown, it appears the big stadia never
> > sold out during the group stages -- would that be a correct assessment?

> > So to get back to SS-B's original points, if Leicester, Wasps, Gloucester,
> > Northampton or Bath played regular matches in 30k+ stadia, then the GP
> > attendance would probably get a considerable boost -- even though they
> > might not sell out each week, just like Newlands or Loftus does not sell
> > out. (And I don't believe London Irish or Saracens sell out their 21/23k
> > stadia.)

> Don't forget TV revenue's either. When was the last time you saw an NPC/ANZ
> game on TV here? It used to be shown all the time. Currie cup is another one
> that is hardly broadcast here these days.

The big problem with the ANZ cup is they keep showing whatever the
live Saturday night game is, even if it is ***(and it usually was).
So I imagine the forgettable nature of the rugby made it worse than
you think; there was always at least one game on a Saturday morning
this season just gone as far as I know.

Cheers

Brent