Ireland vs France teams

Ireland vs France teams

Post by Mees Roelof » Wed, 05 Mar 2003 22:07:55


Ireland:
Dempsey ; Murphy, O'Driscoll (cap.), Maggs, Hickie ; (o) Humphreys,
(m) Stringer ; Foley, Gleeson, Costello ; O'Kelly, Longwell; Hayes,
Byrne, Horan.
Subs: Sheahan, Fitzpatrick, Cullen, Quinlan, G. Easterby, O'Gara, A.N.
Other

France:
Poitrenaud ; Rougerie, Garbajosa, Traille, Clerc ; (o) Gelez, (m)
Yachvili ; Harinordoquy, Magne, Betsen ; Brouzet, Pelous (cap.) ;
Marconnet, Ibanez, Crenca.
Subs : Ru, Califano, Auradou, Chabal, Merceron, Barrau, Castaignde.

One change for France, but it is a big one. Fabien Galthi is injured,
so Dimitri Yachvili comes from the bench to replace him. Matthieu
Barrau has been promoted from France A.

On the one hand, the loss of Galthi seems like a big blow for France.
I think his absence in Australia last year was one of the biggest
reasons for the somewhat faint impression the French made there. On
the other hand, Galthi was far from *** against Scotland (didn't
see England, so I can't comment), whereas Yachvili came on and set up
an excellent try almost immediately. And given the fact that Bernard
Laporte wants to experiment in anticipation of the World Cup ... why
not?

Two changes in Ireland's starting line-up. Reggie Corrigan is injured
and is replaced by Horan. Girvan Dempsey returns after injury at the
expense of John Kelly. Geordon Murphy, who played full-back against
Italy, moves to the wing.

Ronan O'Gara returns to the Ireland squad, but fails to make it into
the starting line-up. Kind of a luxury problem. Humphreys is a guy,
who can decide a match with touches of genius, but can also have
complete off-days. Made lots of knock-ons in the early phases of both
6Ns games so far. If the French (Betsen) can put pressure upon him
early on, it would be interesting to see, whether Humphreys can handle
that. Anyway, if he fails to make an impression, they can always bring
in O'Gara.

--
RSRU FAQ and Shield: http://SportToday.org/

 
 
 

Ireland vs France teams

Post by Doz » Thu, 06 Mar 2003 00:22:07

I think this is shaping up to be the game of the tournament.
I'm English, but I have to say that these are the 2 exciting teams to watch
and if Ireland win, I think they will win the slam. Well done if you do..
What would we give for some of Ireland's (or France's) backs!!!!

Go Ireland I say (as an independent) and let's hope for a quality game.


Quote:
> Ireland:
> Dempsey ; Murphy, O'Driscoll (cap.), Maggs, Hickie ; (o) Humphreys,
> (m) Stringer ; Foley, Gleeson, Costello ; O'Kelly, Longwell; Hayes,
> Byrne, Horan.
> Subs: Sheahan, Fitzpatrick, Cullen, Quinlan, G. Easterby, O'Gara, A.N.
> Other

> France:
> Poitrenaud ; Rougerie, Garbajosa, Traille, Clerc ; (o) Gelez, (m)
> Yachvili ; Harinordoquy, Magne, Betsen ; Brouzet, Pelous (cap.) ;
> Marconnet, Ibanez, Crenca.
> Subs : Ru, Califano, Auradou, Chabal, Merceron, Barrau, Castaignde.

> One change for France, but it is a big one. Fabien Galthi is injured,
> so Dimitri Yachvili comes from the bench to replace him. Matthieu
> Barrau has been promoted from France A.

> On the one hand, the loss of Galthi seems like a big blow for France.
> I think his absence in Australia last year was one of the biggest
> reasons for the somewhat faint impression the French made there. On
> the other hand, Galthi was far from *** against Scotland (didn't
> see England, so I can't comment), whereas Yachvili came on and set up
> an excellent try almost immediately. And given the fact that Bernard
> Laporte wants to experiment in anticipation of the World Cup ... why
> not?

> Two changes in Ireland's starting line-up. Reggie Corrigan is injured
> and is replaced by Horan. Girvan Dempsey returns after injury at the
> expense of John Kelly. Geordon Murphy, who played full-back against
> Italy, moves to the wing.

> Ronan O'Gara returns to the Ireland squad, but fails to make it into
> the starting line-up. Kind of a luxury problem. Humphreys is a guy,
> who can decide a match with touches of genius, but can also have
> complete off-days. Made lots of knock-ons in the early phases of both
> 6Ns games so far. If the French (Betsen) can put pressure upon him
> early on, it would be interesting to see, whether Humphreys can handle
> that. Anyway, if he fails to make an impression, they can always bring
> in O'Gara.

> --
> RSRU FAQ and Shield: http://SportToday.org/


 
 
 

Ireland vs France teams

Post by g » Thu, 06 Mar 2003 00:43:41

Quote:

> Ronan O'Gara returns to the Ireland squad, but fails to make it into
> the starting line-up.

I feel a bit sorry for him, but in Ireland's case it's either feast or
famine at out-half. In decades gone by, there has been a dearth at this
position. Now we're spoilt for choice.

?G

--

 
 
 

Ireland vs France teams

Post by Esmon » Thu, 06 Mar 2003 00:53:15


Quote:
> I think this is shaping up to be the game of the tournament.
> I'm English, but I have to say that these are the 2 exciting teams to
watch
> and if Ireland win, I think they will win the slam. Well done if you do..
> What would we give for some of Ireland's (or France's) backs!!!!

> Go Ireland I say (as an independent) and let's hope for a quality game.

tsk - top posters

Some of their backs?

The only problem position for England in the backs is at centre. Sure
O'Driscoll would be an addition and so too would a Traille or a Marsh, and
our depth here is woefully shallow. But in all the other positions I
wouldn't be quick to replace an Englishman with a French or Irish back.
Geordan Murphy for Luger maybe, but not for S-D. Castaignde doesn't even
make the starting line-up for France, but apart from the big #12 none of the
French backs (against Irlande) have looked anything better than good club
players.

9. Dawson, Stringer, ....Yachvili in that order
10. Wilkinson, Humphreys, ....Gelez
11. Luger, Hickie, Clerc (OK maybe Hickie could get the nod here)
12. Greenwood (I know he wears 13), Traille, ....Maggs
13. O'D, ....Garbajosa, Tindall (both way behind Yer Man)
14. S-D, Murphy, ....Rougerie (not particularly impressive after a long
lay-off)
15. Lewsey (I'll put the kiss of death on him by saying I expect a big, big
performance from this guy), ....Poitrenaud, Dempsey

regards

Esmond

 
 
 

Ireland vs France teams

Post by Chris Vanderslui » Thu, 06 Mar 2003 00:51:01

Quote:


> > Ronan O'Gara returns to the Ireland squad, but fails to make it into
> > the starting line-up.

> I feel a bit sorry for him, but in Ireland's case it's either feast or
> famine at out-half. In decades gone by, there has been a dearth at this
> position. Now we're spoilt for choice.

> ?G

> --

I was thinking the same thing along the lines of Tony Ward/Ollie Cambell at
no.10 in the early 80s.  They are both first picks, but yet you can't find
a place for both in the same back-line.  If one or other is injured the
other just steps up and carries on.  Remarkable.

--

 
 
 

Ireland vs France teams

Post by Mike Whool » Thu, 06 Mar 2003 05:21:50

Quote:

> Ronan O'Gara returns to the Ireland squad, but fails to make it into
> the starting line-up. Kind of a luxury problem. Humphreys is a guy,
> who can decide a match with touches of genius, but can also have
> complete off-days.

Exactly! (He could almost be French! :)

Quote:
> Made lots of knock-ons in the early phases of both
> 6Ns games so far.

Most notably, in the Italy game; where a lot of the players were
complaining about the new ball they play with there; the ball was
wobbling a lot on the high kicks and long passes, so it's no surprise
whoever was receiving from Stringer would suffer.

Quote:
> If the French (Betsen) can put pressure upon him
> early on, it would be interesting to see, whether Humphreys can handle
> that. Anyway, if he fails to make an impression, they can always bring
> in O'Gara.

Yup, potentially the weakpoint in this Irish team if he can be
targetted and his confidence slumps, though I'd expect O'Sullivan will
have Hickie drafted in as an alternate kicker behind the scrum to take
some of the pressure off - or just box kicks from Stringer himself.

I should add, even with almost a week to go, the hype over this game
here is already building up, and expectations are higher than I can
ever recall (myself included! :). If Ireland were to win, and beat
Cardiff, the game against England hardly bears thinking about!

Counting the hours..
Mike.

 
 
 

Ireland vs France teams

Post by Bryan Ra » Thu, 06 Mar 2003 15:43:24

Quote:
> make the starting line-up for France, but apart from the big #12 none of
the
> French backs (against Irlande) have looked anything better than good club
> players.

Yikes.... Garbajosa, Clerc, Rougerie, Poitrenaud, all mediocre? Looking at
the quality of players who aren't in the side.... i.e. Castaignede,
Jeanjean, Dominici, Bernat-Salles, Glas, Brusque, Elhorga, Marsh (injured),
Ntamack, Dourthe, Comba...

Far from mediocre players, I'd say... England would love to have a player of
Garbajosa's calibre at 13, and I'm sure Woodward wouldn't cry to have a
Rougerie or a Clerc to call on every now and then... or a Poitrenaud to play
either 13 or 15... not saying the English players aren't any good, but to
call the French backs "good club players" is a bit much. You also can't tell
me Ireland's backs, aside from O'Driscoll, Hickie and Murphy, are even in
the same class as the French. John Kelly wouldn't even make a France B side
never mind the A side or the senior one.

cheers,
Bryan Ray

 
 
 

Ireland vs France teams

Post by Esmon » Thu, 06 Mar 2003 17:20:37


Quote:
> > make the starting line-up for France, but apart from the big #12 none of
> the
> > French backs (against Irlande) have looked anything better than good
club
> > players.

> Yikes.... Garbajosa, Clerc, Rougerie, Poitrenaud, all mediocre? Looking at
> the quality of players who aren't in the side.... i.e. Castaignede,
> Jeanjean, Dominici, Bernat-Salles, Glas, Brusque, Elhorga, Marsh
(injured),
> Ntamack, Dourthe, Comba...

> Far from mediocre players, I'd say... England would love to have a player
of
> Garbajosa's calibre at 13, and I'm sure Woodward wouldn't cry to have a
> Rougerie or a Clerc to call on every now and then... or a Poitrenaud to
play
> either 13 or 15... not saying the English players aren't any good, but to
> call the French backs "good club players" is a bit much. You also can't
tell
> me Ireland's backs, aside from O'Driscoll, Hickie and Murphy, are even in
> the same class as the French. John Kelly wouldn't even make a France B
side
> never mind the A side or the senior one.

> cheers,
> Bryan Ray

Against England every time France had an overlap they failed to use it,
throwing miss passes instead of using the men and drawing the tackles. Only
when Castaignde came on did they start running the straight lines and
putting men in at the corner. "Good club players" is probably a bit much but
it certainly wasn't international class back play.
England played better against the same opposition last year and lost.

You are right, there are quality players who aren't in the side, but my
comparisons were only with this weekend's starting backs.
Who from France or Ireland would you pick over their English counterpart?

regards

Esmond

 
 
 

Ireland vs France teams

Post by Steve Parret » Thu, 06 Mar 2003 17:30:13


Quote:



> > > make the starting line-up for France, but apart from the big #12 none
of
> > the
> > > French backs (against Irlande) have looked anything better than good
> club
> > > players.

> > Yikes.... Garbajosa, Clerc, Rougerie, Poitrenaud, all mediocre? Looking
at
> > the quality of players who aren't in the side.... i.e. Castaignede,
> > Jeanjean, Dominici, Bernat-Salles, Glas, Brusque, Elhorga, Marsh
> (injured),
> > Ntamack, Dourthe, Comba...

> > Far from mediocre players, I'd say... England would love to have a
player
> of
> > Garbajosa's calibre at 13, and I'm sure Woodward wouldn't cry to have a
> > Rougerie or a Clerc to call on every now and then... or a Poitrenaud to
> play
> > either 13 or 15... not saying the English players aren't any good, but
to
> > call the French backs "good club players" is a bit much. You also can't
> tell
> > me Ireland's backs, aside from O'Driscoll, Hickie and Murphy, are even
in
> > the same class as the French. John Kelly wouldn't even make a France B
> side
> > never mind the A side or the senior one.

> > cheers,
> > Bryan Ray

> Against England every time France had an overlap they failed to use it,
> throwing miss passes instead of using the men and drawing the tackles.
Only
> when Castaignde came on did they start running the straight lines and
> putting men in at the corner. "Good club players" is probably a bit much
but
> it certainly wasn't international class back play.
> England played better against the same opposition last year and lost.

> You are right, there are quality players who aren't in the side, but my
> comparisons were only with this weekend's starting backs.
> Who from France or Ireland would you pick over their English counterpart?

> regards

> Esmond

Poitrenaud over Lewsey, and possibly even Robinson.

Regards

Steve

 
 
 

Ireland vs France teams

Post by Doz » Thu, 06 Mar 2003 23:35:05

So based on all the interesting views, what do people say will happen in the
Ireland V France and then Ireland V England games?
I think France will beat Ireland (hope not) and that Ireland will beat
England (hope not)

Doz

Quote:
> Ireland:
> Dempsey ; Murphy, O'Driscoll (cap.), Maggs, Hickie ; (o) Humphreys,
> (m) Stringer ; Foley, Gleeson, Costello ; O'Kelly, Longwell; Hayes,
> Byrne, Horan.
> Subs: Sheahan, Fitzpatrick, Cullen, Quinlan, G. Easterby, O'Gara, A.N.
> Other

> France:
> Poitrenaud ; Rougerie, Garbajosa, Traille, Clerc ; (o) Gelez, (m)
> Yachvili ; Harinordoquy, Magne, Betsen ; Brouzet, Pelous (cap.) ;
> Marconnet, Ibanez, Crenca.
> Subs : Ru, Califano, Auradou, Chabal, Merceron, Barrau, Castaignde.

> One change for France, but it is a big one. Fabien Galthi is injured,
> so Dimitri Yachvili comes from the bench to replace him. Matthieu
> Barrau has been promoted from France A.

> On the one hand, the loss of Galthi seems like a big blow for France.
> I think his absence in Australia last year was one of the biggest
> reasons for the somewhat faint impression the French made there. On
> the other hand, Galthi was far from *** against Scotland (didn't
> see England, so I can't comment), whereas Yachvili came on and set up
> an excellent try almost immediately. And given the fact that Bernard
> Laporte wants to experiment in anticipation of the World Cup ... why
> not?

> Two changes in Ireland's starting line-up. Reggie Corrigan is injured
> and is replaced by Horan. Girvan Dempsey returns after injury at the
> expense of John Kelly. Geordon Murphy, who played full-back against
> Italy, moves to the wing.

> Ronan O'Gara returns to the Ireland squad, but fails to make it into
> the starting line-up. Kind of a luxury problem. Humphreys is a guy,
> who can decide a match with touches of genius, but can also have
> complete off-days. Made lots of knock-ons in the early phases of both
> 6Ns games so far. If the French (Betsen) can put pressure upon him
> early on, it would be interesting to see, whether Humphreys can handle
> that. Anyway, if he fails to make an impression, they can always bring
> in O'Gara.

> --
> RSRU FAQ and Shield: http://SportToday.org/

 
 
 

Ireland vs France teams

Post by Esmon » Fri, 07 Mar 2003 01:45:18


Quote:





> > > > make the starting line-up for France, but apart from the big #12
none
> of
> > > the
> > > > French backs (against Irlande) have looked anything better than good
> > club
> > > > players.

> > > Yikes.... Garbajosa, Clerc, Rougerie, Poitrenaud, all mediocre?
Looking
> at
> > > the quality of players who aren't in the side.... i.e. Castaignede,
> > > Jeanjean, Dominici, Bernat-Salles, Glas, Brusque, Elhorga, Marsh
> > (injured),
> > > Ntamack, Dourthe, Comba...

> > > Far from mediocre players, I'd say... England would love to have a
> player
> > of
> > > Garbajosa's calibre at 13, and I'm sure Woodward wouldn't cry to have
a
> > > Rougerie or a Clerc to call on every now and then... or a Poitrenaud
to
> > play
> > > either 13 or 15... not saying the English players aren't any good, but
> to
> > > call the French backs "good club players" is a bit much. You also
can't
> > tell
> > > me Ireland's backs, aside from O'Driscoll, Hickie and Murphy, are even
> in
> > > the same class as the French. John Kelly wouldn't even make a France B
> > side
> > > never mind the A side or the senior one.

> > > cheers,
> > > Bryan Ray

> > Against England every time France had an overlap they failed to use it,
> > throwing miss passes instead of using the men and drawing the tackles.
> Only
> > when Castaignde came on did they start running the straight lines and
> > putting men in at the corner. "Good club players" is probably a bit much
> but
> > it certainly wasn't international class back play.
> > England played better against the same opposition last year and lost.

> > You are right, there are quality players who aren't in the side, but my
> > comparisons were only with this weekend's starting backs.
> > Who from France or Ireland would you pick over their English
counterpart?

> > regards

> > Esmond

> Poitrenaud over Lewsey, and possibly even Robinson.

> Regards

> Steve

I'd quite happily have Lewsey over Robinson at full back - put Robinson on
the wing where he belongs.

regards

Esmond

 
 
 

Ireland vs France teams

Post by Norm Flemin » Fri, 07 Mar 2003 03:58:17

Quote:

> > make the starting line-up for France, but apart from the big #12 none of
> the
> > French backs (against Irlande) have looked anything better than good club
> > players.

> Yikes.... Garbajosa, Clerc, Rougerie, Poitrenaud, all mediocre? Looking at
> the quality of players who aren't in the side.... i.e. Castaignede,
> Jeanjean, Dominici, Bernat-Salles, Glas, Brusque, Elhorga, Marsh (injured),
> Ntamack, Dourthe, Comba...

> Far from mediocre players, I'd say... England would love to have a player of
> Garbajosa's calibre at 13, and I'm sure Woodward wouldn't cry to have a
> Rougerie or a Clerc to call on every now and then... or a Poitrenaud to play
> either 13 or 15... not saying the English players aren't any good, but to
> call the French backs "good club players" is a bit much. You also can't tell
> me Ireland's backs, aside from O'Driscoll, Hickie and Murphy, are even in
> the same class as the French.

Disagree -  Kevin Maggs is probably the most underrated back in the 6N.  He's
the guy who quietly does much to hold the threequarters together - a rock in
defence an no slouch in attack either.  Also Rob Henderson and Shane Horgan,
when fully fit, are top quality players.  You saw how Henderson performed with
th Lions and how Horgan handled Jonah Lomu a season ago.  Some would also argue
that Stringer is as good a scrum half as any other on the scene at present.  And
it's quite hard to knock Humphreys on present form of 20+ points per match -
he's performing better that either of this French counterparts in recent games.

Norm Fleming

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
> John Kelly wouldn't even make a France B side
> never mind the A side or the senior one.

> cheers,
> Bryan Ray

 
 
 

Ireland vs France teams

Post by Bryan Ra » Fri, 07 Mar 2003 07:21:34

Quote:
> Kevin Maggs is probably the most underrated back in the 6N

Not sure I would consider him underrated. He's been playing in the
premiership with Bristol and now Bath for years now and everyone knows he's
a great defender but adds little to a dynamic offense. He's solid, yes, and
he'll give you good go-forward crash ball, but Henderson is better
offensively.

Quote:
> Also Rob Henderson and Shane Horgan when fully fit, are top quality

players.

Henderson is hot and cold. He's very good running straight lines but he does
little beyond that. His defense, likewise, is strong but suspect against a
shifty opposite number.

Horgan, on the other hand, is difficult for me to comment on because he's
been injured so much. He's certainly strong in the tackle, and for a big
bloke he's got pretty good pace, certainly more than Will Greenwood. Could
be excellent but he's got to get fit and get into the side again first. I'd
rather see him in the no12 spot than on the wing, personally. Could be
interesting to see him pair up with his clubmate O'Driscoll.

Quote:
> how Horgan handled Jonah Lomu a season ago

Being able to "handle" Lomu is hardly something I would guage greatness on.
Frikkie Welsh of the Bulls handled him quite well last year and I wouldn't
call him top calibre.

Quote:
> Some would also argue that Stringer is as good a scrum half as any other
on the scene
> it's quite hard to knock Humphreys on present form of 20+ points per match

France are comparitively weak in the halfback department certainly, I was
looking more at the three-quarter line. Stringer is outstanding and would
likely make the bench of the Lions team if you named one today (behind
Dawson). Humphreys and O'Gara are also very good, and signs are that O'Gara
is improving, but so too Gelez who is well short of his potential right now.
He's at least as good a kicker as either of the two if not better though.
Merceron is a very good playmaker but weak defensively and currently
miserable when it comes to kicking. Perhaps a recall of Christophe Lamaison
is in order?

cheers,
Bryan Ray

 
 
 

Ireland vs France teams

Post by Bryan Ra » Fri, 07 Mar 2003 07:26:18

Quote:
> Who from France or Ireland would you pick over their English counterpart?

Galthie over Dawson, Bracken, or Gomarsall.

Traille, Marsh, Glas, Garbajosa, Jauzion, Poitrenaud, or Castaignede over
any English centre bar Will Greenwood.

Clerc, Rougerie, and possibly Jeanjean over Luger. Normally I'd say over
Cohen as well but he's been in brilliant form as of late and it would be
impossible not to pick him. That said Robinson on the wing rates higher than
anyone in my opinion.

As for fullback, Poitrenaud, Jeanjean, and Castaignede are all better than
what England has to offer. Balshaw, for me, is the closest to them. Brusque
is another outstanding fullback.

cheers,
Bryan Ray

 
 
 

Ireland vs France teams

Post by Mees Roelof » Fri, 07 Mar 2003 18:32:27

Bryan Ray schrijft:

Quote:
>France are comparitively weak in the halfback department certainly, I was
>looking more at the three-quarter line. Stringer is outstanding and would
>likely make the bench of the Lions team if you named one today (behind
>Dawson). Humphreys and O'Gara are also very good, and signs are that O'Gara
>is improving, but so too Gelez who is well short of his potential right now.
>He's at least as good a kicker as either of the two if not better though.
>Merceron is a very good playmaker but weak defensively and currently
>miserable when it comes to kicking. Perhaps a recall of Christophe Lamaison
>is in order?

Who plays for Bayonne in the second division? I assume you're joking,
Bryan?

Nonetheless, the French *are* concerned about their halfbacks, I
think. You can see it in the current experiments in the France A side.
At #10, they have tried Mercier and Peyrelongue so far in the Six
Nations. For this weekend, Michalak is due. At #9, you have Barrau at
now Elissalde.

The weird thing may be that the French seem to be producing good
half-backs in quick succession. One almost gets dazzled at the way
they come and go. Weird thing is that they usually can play both #9
and #10 (Michalak, Elissalde, Yachvili). Yet they fail to convert
their talent into constant performance.

Think about Frderic Michalak and how he made his entrance into test
rugby. Was named #10 against Australia at the age of 19 (?), played a
wonderful match (despite having a bad kicking day). These days, he
usually sits on the bench at Toulouse behind Elissalde (#9) and
Delaigue (#10). Think about Jean-Baptiste Elissalde, who came into the
French team at #10 from minnows La Rochelle. Finally went to Toulouse
and only now starts to make his mark a bit as scrum-half.

A rather weird state, I might say. Bernard Laporte knows it and works
on it. The question of course remains, whether he can find a solution
before the World Cup.

--
RSRU FAQ and Shield: http://pino.faithweb.com/rsru