Herbert: The unluckiest driver in F1 history

Herbert: The unluckiest driver in F1 history

Post by GUCCIPHI » Mon, 23 Oct 2000 04:00:00


This is so sad for someone who has some talent.  He has more experience than
anyone else on the grid.  You can't get any worse than crashing heavily on the
final laps of the final GP of your longtime F1 career.  Hope he will have
better luck in other racing series.
 
 
 

Herbert: The unluckiest driver in F1 history

Post by ADen » Mon, 23 Oct 2000 04:00:00



Quote:
>This is so sad for someone who has some talent.  He has more experience than
>anyone else on the grid.  You can't get any worse than crashing heavily on the
>final laps of the final GP of your longtime F1 career.  Hope he will have
>better luck in other racing series.

I understand what you are saying.  But, unfortunately there have been many
more F1 drivers that were considerably more luckless than Johnny.  

He is still with us.  Thank God for that.

Andre

 
 
 

Herbert: The unluckiest driver in F1 history

Post by Steven Wheele » Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:02:51

Quote:



> >This is so sad for someone who has some talent.  He has more experience than
> >anyone else on the grid.  You can't get any worse than crashing heavily on the
> >final laps of the final GP of your longtime F1 career.  Hope he will have
> >better luck in other racing series.

> I understand what you are saying.  But, unfortunately there have been many
> more F1 drivers that were considerably more luckless than Johnny.

Not to mention many more who have been considerably more talented and had
shorter careers and fewer opportunities.

Much is made of Herbert's luck but given the amount of mechanical failures
he's had over the years (allowing for times spent in fairly average cars),
just how hard is he on the machinery?

I'm struggling even to remember a team-mate over the years Johnny has shown
a clean pair of heels to. I dunno, I don't rate him so I'm not too upset to
see him move on to greener pastures.

See ya,

Steve.

 
 
 

Herbert: The unluckiest driver in F1 history

Post by frankha.. » Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:56:50

Johnny was a good guy.  He had one of the worst crashes in racing
history in F3000 and entered F1 essentially crippled.   He won a few
races which is more than many other drivers can say.  I think Chris
Amon had even tougher breaks.  Johnny is probably the last guy to ever
complain and almost always had a sunny disposition.  I wish him a lot
of luck in the future.



Quote:
> This is so sad for someone who has some talent.  He has more
experience than
> anyone else on the grid.  You can't get any worse than crashing
heavily on the
> final laps of the final GP of your longtime F1 career.  Hope he will
have
> better luck in other racing series.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
 
 
 

Herbert: The unluckiest driver in F1 history

Post by Steven Wheele » Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:45:17

Quote:

> Johnny was a good guy.  He had one of the worst crashes in racing
> history in F3000 and entered F1 essentially crippled.   He won a few
> races which is more than many other drivers can say.  I think Chris
> Amon had even tougher breaks.  Johnny is probably the last guy to ever
> complain and almost always had a sunny disposition.  I wish him a lot
> of luck in the future.

Chris Amon is probably the best example of a grand prix with bad
luck. Anyone who thinks JH was hard done by should have a look at
Amon's career.

See ya,

Steve.

 
 
 

Herbert: The unluckiest driver in F1 history

Post by Paul » Sat, 28 Oct 2000 07:39:15



Quote:

>Much is made of Herbert's luck but given the amount of mechanical failures
>he's had over the years (allowing for times spent in fairly average cars),
>just how hard is he on the machinery?

Someone else who knows sweet ***-all about Johnny's career, it seems.

Quote:
>I'm struggling even to remember a team-mate over the years Johnny has shown
>a clean pair of heels to. I dunno, I don't rate him so I'm not too upset to
>see him move on to greener pastures.

How about his "partnership" with Schumacher at Benetton? Despite having
less than 1/10 of the time in the car he came within thousandths of a
second of the Great One's practice times, before Briatore killed him
off.

Quote:
>See ya,

Probably not if you continue to show such ignorance.

Quote:
>Steve.

--
Paul B
                                                        Go Johnny Go
 
 
 

Herbert: The unluckiest driver in F1 history

Post by Paul » Sat, 28 Oct 2000 07:42:56



Quote:

>Chris Amon is probably the best example of a grand prix with bad
>luck.

Can't disagree there.

Quote:
>Anyone who thinks JH was hard done by should have a look at
>Amon's career.

No-one is saying Johnny was "hard done by". But, in his early days prior
to his accident he was the fastest driver on the circuit, and was
showing immense talent. Even afterwards he was fast (see his career at
Benetton), but he just didn't have the breaks... it happens.

You don't seem to know much about him. Mind telling us all when you
watched him drive at the start of his career.

Quote:
>See ya,

Not if I see you first.

Quote:
>Steve.

--
Paul B
                                                        Go Johnny Go
 
 
 

Herbert: The unluckiest driver in F1 history

Post by Steven Wheele » Sat, 28 Oct 2000 11:59:30

Quote:

> Someone else who knows sweet ***-all about Johnny's career, it seems.

Following me around r.a.s.f1? I was following F1 prior to JH appearing
on the scene and will long into the future. In the that time I don't
recall seeing anything that suggested a DWC might be a possibility.

Hey, Riccardo Patrese won more races than your man didn't he?

Quote:
> How about his "partnership" with Schumacher at Benetton? Despite having
> less than 1/10 of the time in the car he came within thousandths of a
> second of the Great One's practice times, before Briatore killed him
> off.

I don't think anyone would deny that team was built around Schumacher.
JH struck out on that one.

Quote:
> Probably not if you continue to show such ignorance.

I'm glad you find such fulfillment in supporting the career of JH...
keep it up. I'll keep up with my "ignorance".

When you actually get a clue as to what you're talking about, drop me
a line. I have no beef with JH but but some of his overly loyal "fans",
with the exception of DC, seem to suffer from a bit of tunnel vision...

See ya,

Steve.

 
 
 

Herbert: The unluckiest driver in F1 history

Post by Steven Wheele » Sat, 28 Oct 2000 12:19:23

Quote:

> Can't disagree there.

Strangely conciliatory behaviour...

Quote:
> No-one is saying Johnny was "hard done by". But, in his early days prior

Bullsh*t! What's the name of this thread then eh?

Quote:
> to his accident he was the fastest driver on the circuit, and was
> showing immense talent. Even afterwards he was fast (see his career at

I don't dispute that perception of his form in the junior formulae.

Quote:
> Benetton), but he just didn't have the breaks... it happens.

It does unfortunately... F1 often is about being in the right place at
the right time and running with it. Ask Damon Hill, story of his F1 career.
Not a criticism btw.

Quote:
> You don't seem to know much about him. Mind telling us all when you
> watched him drive at the start of his career.

I'm bringing out a biography next week...

I don't really see how that's relevant to an assessment of his F1 career,
which is the topic of this thread - as opposed to "Johnny Herbert, a
career retrospective" unless he drove in F1 from the start of his career.
It's all very well to judge a driver's potential on their form in the
junior formulae (Jan Magnussen anyone?) but often when they get to F1
it's a different story. My original point which seems to have got right
up your nose, was that _IMO_ Herbert lacked pace compared to the
frontrunners during his time in F1. That's comparing him to the likes of
Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Mansell, Hakkinen, et al. If you want to
suggest his career belongs in that sort of company by all means, if that's
your viewpoint. I see him more as a "journeyman" type, but that's me.

Quote:
> Not if I see you first.

I should be so lucky. I'll see you at the local at 5:00pm tonight (Friday)
and we'll continue this discussion over a few beers.

See ya,

Steve.

 
 
 

Herbert: The unluckiest driver in F1 history

Post by Andy Laurenc » Sat, 28 Oct 2000 18:28:46

Quote:
> > Someone else who knows sweet ***-all about Johnny's career, it seems.

> Following me around r.a.s.f1? I was following F1 prior to JH appearing
> on the scene and will long into the future. In the that time I don't
> recall seeing anything that suggested a DWC might be a possibility.

> Hey, Riccardo Patrese won more races than your man didn't he?

IIRC, Patrese spent a good few years in a superior Williams, and was
completely dominated by Mansell in 91 and 92.

<snip argument>

Andy
--
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Herbert: The unluckiest driver in F1 history

Post by Prefect Bein » Sat, 28 Oct 2000 19:16:52

On Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:19:23 +1100, Steven Wheeler

Quote:

>I don't really see how that's relevant to an assessment of his F1 career,
>which is the topic of this thread - as opposed to "Johnny Herbert, a
>career retrospective" unless he drove in F1 from the start of his career.
>It's all very well to judge a driver's potential on their form in the
>junior formulae (Jan Magnussen anyone?) but often when they get to F1
>it's a different story.

From Autosport Pit and Paddock, September 17 1987:

"Johnny's F3 team boss Eddie Jordan was also present at the [F1
Benetton] test and was very enthusiastic about his protege's progress:
'It was like looking at something you could not believe. The thing
that impressed me was the reaction of some of the F1 luminaries when
they saw the times he was doing. Patrick Head, Gerard Ducarouge and
even Ayrton Senna, they all came to the pit...."

And that doesn't include Mansell's comments.

After his F3000 crash he was told he'd never drive again. So to
complete 170 GPs with 3 victories isn't at all bad, IMVHO.

Joe