Rubinho vs Schumi (was Re: Irvine gall and Re: Great Ferrari news)

Rubinho vs Schumi (was Re: Irvine gall and Re: Great Ferrari news)

Post by Jeand » Sun, 20 Feb 2000 04:00:00


Quote:
>Irvine was quoted as saying: "Michael will kill Barrichello. Just like he
>did with every other team-mate he had so far. Michael did not have a
>contract, stating he is the number one driver at Ferrari. His only privilege
>was that he had the right to use the spare car. He is the number one because
>he is so good."

http://www.autorace.com/ :

"He [Schumi] continued with testing in the F399 while the team was
waiting for replacement parts for the F1-2000. He completed 13 laps
with the F399 with a fastest time of 1:27.129. His team mate Rubens
Barrichello concentrated on set up and tyre evaluations, driving a
F399, completing a total of 47 laps with a fastest time of 1:26.517."

Rubinho 0.6s faster then Schumi, now everyone say sorry to me and
mr.wong!

I know it's only a testing session, and I know MS was putting more
effort in his F1-2000 laps, and I know MS did less laps than RB, and I
know I'm too big a RB fan to see things objectively, but I think
Rubinho might just surprise a lot of people and get more WC points
than the maestro.

No comment about EI's comments...
--
Jeandr "mrBlond"

http://surf.to/rubinho/
http://rubinho.listbot.com/

Quote:
>> >> Let's see them on the same track, in the same car, in the same
>> >> conditions....
>> >> *Then* Schu will have about a second on him....

>> >For my 2 cents the gap should be 1/2 sec for Schumi.  Rubens is a heck of a
>> >driver and he will prove it this year.  Finally he has a car that he can
>> >challenge with.

>> I hope you're correct.  Rubens, while a nice enough seeming chap, has
>> always been a bit under my radar as a driver

>I agree to an extent, but sitting at Stowe last year, with the perspective
>you don't get from TV, Rubens was one of the more impressive into that
>corner: also pulled off a few great moves.

>> I hope he responds to the call a good bit better than Eddie did(n't).
>> Eddie was ultimately such a huge disappointment.

--
Jeandr "mrBlond"

http://surf.to/rubinho/
http://rubinho.listbot.com/
 
 
 

Rubinho vs Schumi (was Re: Irvine gall and Re: Great Ferrari news)

Post by GraDe » Mon, 21 Feb 2000 04:00:00

No, but the Ford was good, very good at the beginning but after th lads
fried them they obviously ut a rev lmiter lower. thus limiting the power!
Can he handle a top powered car? My only hope is that Ferari's engines seem
to last much longer, so hopefuly he won't fry thm too!

My second point is that he's just not aggressive enough, and where the
problems start is that I doubt he is really going to get up for the title
competitivly the whole way through yet I do feel he will take points rom
Schumacher on races that Scmi needs to win to seriously challenge Hakkinen.

Its a visous circle:-)

Quote:
> Look what he was driving.  Do you really thing the Ford was a very good
car?  It
> was okay but not up with Mclaren, Jordan or Ferrari.  Rubens now has for
the
> first time in his career a top notch car.  His testing times at Fiorano
and
> Mugello have been excellent.  It is only testing but he has really
impressed the
> Ferrari Management. He is going to have the best year of his career.


> > > I know it's only a testing session, and I know MS was putting more
> > > effort in his F1-2000 laps, and I know MS did less laps than RB, and I
> > > know I'm too big a RB fan to see things objectively, but I think
> > > Rubinho might just surprise a lot of people and get more WC points
> > > than the maestro.

> > Is it me or what?
> > I (used to) think Rubino was a great driver, very quick, ifgiven the
chance,
> > maybe could beat Schumi at times but really....... did anyone see him in
> > 1999? The man as dire!

> > As soon as he cooked his engine in Melbourne Ford had to tone down the
revs
> > so he wouldn't do it again, after that his qualifying performance wents
> > straight down. He led in Brazil but simply couldn't cut it. He went
quicked
> > then, jsut barely finishing the races to save face.

> > Then came France, Rubin's is always on about how he loves the wet and
> > karting, but in France, when he got infront he just handed the position
to
> > Mika at that haripin.

> > After that he jsut sunk away and JH was whooping his arse!!!! (former MS
> > partner too)

> > Rubin's has loads of ptential, is a quick driver,
> > But he does ever reach this potential and is never good under preasure
in a
> > race.

> > He's a quic driver, but not a good racer!


 
 
 

Rubinho vs Schumi (was Re: Irvine gall and Re: Great Ferrari news)

Post by GraDe » Mon, 21 Feb 2000 04:00:00

But IIRC, Frentzen made this kove and held him almost up and past the
chicane,

Did Rubins?


Quote:
> I remember in France RB being passed by MH and then in the exit of the
> corner passing MH again.I thing it is right the opposite.He is not the
> fastest,but he is a great racer.The fastest cars would have a hard time
> passing him.


 
 
 

Rubinho vs Schumi (was Re: Irvine gall and Re: Great Ferrari news)

Post by Prefect Bei » Tue, 22 Feb 2000 04:00:00

On Sat, 19 Feb 2000 18:24:26 -0000, "GraDee"

Quote:

>> I know it's only a testing session, and I know MS was putting more
>> effort in his F1-2000 laps, and I know MS did less laps than RB, and I
>> know I'm too big a RB fan to see things objectively, but I think
>> Rubinho might just surprise a lot of people and get more WC points
>> than the maestro.

>Is it me or what?
>I (used to) think Rubino was a great driver, very quick, ifgiven the chance,
>maybe could beat Schumi at times but really....... did anyone see him in
>1999? The man as dire!

>As soon as he cooked his engine in Melbourne Ford had to tone down the revs
>so he wouldn't do it again,

Eh?! This was a brand new engine which was rather prone to cooking
itself, seeing as it cooked Herbert's car as well, and neither of them
had had time to rev their race-build engines in anger before that
point.

Quote:
>after that his qualifying performance wents
>straight down.  

Really? The usual method is to compare teammates, not consume illegal
substances.

Quote:
>He led in Brazil but simply couldn't cut it. He went quicked
>then, jsut barely finishing the races to save face.

He was on a two stop strategy which put him in the lead and at that
point of the season no one could dream of beating a Mclaren on
anything other than attrition, not even your darling Schumacher.

Quote:
>Then came France, Rubin's is always on about how he loves the wet and
>karting, but in France, when he got infront he just handed the position to
>Mika at that haripin.

He had considerable oversteer problems, which Mika didn't. The CR1 had
poor drivability and the SF3 poor rear grip. At Monza he tried his
favourite trick of taking a skinny wing and trying to make the
difference, which worked nicely. Made Herbert look, er, a right
herbert for most of the year in case you hadn't noticed........

Quote:
>After that he jsut sunk away and JH was whooping his arse!!!! (former MS
>partner too)

......which you evidently haven't.

Quote:
>Rubin's has loads of ptential, is a quick driver,
>But he does ever reach this potential and is never good under preasure in a
>race.

>He's a quic driver, but not a good racer!

What do you mean by racer (and "quic")? I can't help recalling his
repass of Schumacher in France and his outside pass on Coulthard at
Monza, the first of three on the trot, unspeakably rare in todays F1.
 
 
 

Rubinho vs Schumi (was Re: Irvine gall and Re: Great Ferrari news)

Post by Richard G Cleg » Tue, 22 Feb 2000 04:00:00

: No, but the Ford was good, very good at the beginning but after th lads
: fried them they obviously ut a rev lmiter lower. thus limiting the power!
: Can he handle a top powered car? My only hope is that Ferari's engines seem
: to last much longer, so hopefuly he won't fry thm too!

  Well, if pit lane gossip is true then last year Rubens was driving a
better powered car than the Ferrari.  A lot of people were saying the
Ford engine was the 2nd most powerful.

: My second point is that he's just not aggressive enough, and where the
: problems start is that I doubt he is really going to get up for the title
: competitivly the whole way through yet I do feel he will take points rom
: Schumacher on races that Scmi needs to win to seriously challenge Hakkinen.

  Take another look at the stats.  Rubens overtook more people than
just about any driver last season.  That's surely being aggressive
enough?  The "not aggressive" charge perhaps comes from the fact that
Rubens almost always manages a clean overtaking move - therefore they
don't get noticed as much.

--
Richard G. Clegg       Only the mind is waving
    Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
      Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
    www:  http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

 
 
 

Rubinho vs Schumi (was Re: Irvine gall and Re: Great Ferrari news)

Post by Prefect Bei » Tue, 22 Feb 2000 04:00:00


Quote:

>: No, but the Ford was good, very good at the beginning but after th lads
>: fried them they obviously ut a rev lmiter lower. thus limiting the power!
>: Can he handle a top powered car? My only hope is that Ferari's engines seem
>: to last much longer, so hopefuly he won't fry thm too!

>  Well, if pit lane gossip is true then last year Rubens was driving a
>better powered car than the Ferrari.  A lot of people were saying the
>Ford engine was the 2nd most powerful.

>: My second point is that he's just not aggressive enough, and where the
>: problems start is that I doubt he is really going to get up for the title
>: competitivly the whole way through yet I do feel he will take points rom
>: Schumacher on races that Scmi needs to win to seriously challenge Hakkinen.

>  Take another look at the stats.  Rubens overtook more people than
>just about any driver last season.  That's surely being aggressive
>enough?  The "not aggressive" charge perhaps comes from the fact that
>Rubens almost always manages a clean overtaking move - therefore they
>don't get noticed as much.

Did a quick deja.com search for Brian's stats service. Final results
were:

41  Alesi
30  H?kkinen
29  Irvine
28  Barrichello
21  Panis
14  Zonta & R Schumacher
13  Diniz
12  Zanardi
11  Trulli
  9  M Schumacher, Badoer, Wurz & Takagi
  8  Herbert & Coulthard
  5  Salo, Gen, Fisichella & Villeneuve
  3  Hill & De la Rosa
  2  Sarazzin & Frentzen

 
 
 

Rubinho vs Schumi (was Re: Irvine gall and Re: Great Ferrari news)

Post by Badfy » Wed, 23 Feb 2000 04:00:00

i cant believe Frentzen only overtook twice the whole season and still finished
near the top in points standings.
 
 
 

Rubinho vs Schumi (was Re: Irvine gall and Re: Great Ferrari news)

Post by Jak » Wed, 23 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

>i cant believe Frentzen only overtook twice the whole season and still
finished
>near the top in points standings.

Brian's overtaking stats (I assume that's what you're referring to, but as
it was snipped, I can't be sure) purely showed how many times each driver
overtook. His explanation which he posted with every race said that he
didn't count passes done when pitting, or positions gained by drivers
falling off, but purely on-track passes that were held until the end of the
lap.

In Frentzen's case, he quite often started from in the top four or five on
the grid, and so didn't really need to pass anyone to get good points, or
maybe he passed in the pits, or top drivers fell off (often the case last
year).

Still, very useful stats, and I hope Brian will do the same again this year.

Jak
http://members.xoom.com/Jak_A/
**2000 season preview online **
Fantasy F1 still taking entries

 
 
 

Rubinho vs Schumi (was Re: Irvine gall and Re: Great Ferrari news)

Post by Barry Posne » Wed, 23 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> In Frentzen's case, he quite often started from in the top four or five on
> the grid, and so didn't really need to pass anyone to get good points, or
> maybe he passed in the pits, or top drivers fell off (often the case last
> year).

I'd like to see stats on how many times each driver was passed. HHF has
to be near the top.

bp

 
 
 

Rubinho vs Schumi (was Re: Irvine gall and Re: Great Ferrari news)

Post by Jak » Wed, 23 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Quote:


>> In Frentzen's case, he quite often started from in the top four or five
on
>> the grid, and so didn't really need to pass anyone to get good points, or
>> maybe he passed in the pits, or top drivers fell off (often the case last
>> year).

>I'd like to see stats on how many times each driver was passed. HHF has
>to be near the top.

Brian? This one's for you... :)

Although IIRC there was something like that in the stats originally, do a
deja search... Might be mistaken though.

Jak
http://members.xoom.com/Jak_A/
**2000 season preview online **
Fantasy F1 still taking entries

 
 
 

Rubinho vs Schumi (was Re: Irvine gall and Re: Great Ferrari news)

Post by Sven ;- » Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Quote:


> > In Frentzen's case, he quite often started from in the top four or five on
> > the grid, and so didn't really need to pass anyone to get good points, or
> > maybe he passed in the pits, or top drivers fell off (often the case last
> > year).

> I'd like to see stats on how many times each driver was passed. HHF has
> to be near the top.

nah, I dunno. Why does everyone keep saying that?

Haven't seen Canada and France (there must have been a few due
to HHF's one stop strategy), but in the other races I can only
recall two; Mika in Austria (and MH passed nearly everyone), and
Barrichello in Hockenheim. Any others?

The logic seems to be fairly simple; the slower the combination
of car and driver is, the further down the grid, the more likely
it's being passed. The Ferraris and McLarens where probably
overtaken the least, then the Jordans and Stewarts.

I'd guess that both Schumachers (Schumi in particular ;-) and DC
(didn't have anything to lose) are hardest to overtake.

OTOH, I think Zanardi and Wurz were overtaken quite often (about
once each race I'd guess).

Sven.
--
   "Wir denken zu wenig an die sinnliche Komponente der Architektur,
                         die Wirkung auf Sehen, Fuehlen und Erleben"
                                        Friedensreich Hundertwasser,  
                                                          1928-2000.  

 
 
 

Rubinho vs Schumi (was Re: Irvine gall and Re: Great Ferrari news)

Post by nh » Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:00:00

Quote:
> Haven't seen Canada and France (there must have been a few due
> to HHF's one stop strategy), but in the other races I can only
> recall two; Mika in Austria (and MH passed nearly everyone), and
> Barrichello in Hockenheim. Any others?

If I remember correctly Hakkinen overtook HHF at least in France, in Austria
and in Hockenheim.

nh

 
 
 

Rubinho vs Schumi (was Re: Irvine gall and Re: Great Ferrari news)

Post by Richard G Cleg » Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:00:00


:>  Take another look at the stats.  Rubens overtook more people than
:>just about any driver last season.  That's surely being aggressive
:>enough?  The "not aggressive" charge perhaps comes from the fact that
:>Rubens almost always manages a clean overtaking move - therefore they
:>don't get noticed as much.

: Did a quick deja.com search for Brian's stats service. Final results
: were:

: 41  Alesi
: 30  Hakkinen
: 29  Irvine
: 28  Barrichello

  OK... perhaps not "more than just about any other driver" but he was
certainly well up there.  Can we now stop saying that Rubinho doesn't
know how to overtake?  (Someone said this once around about '96 and it's
simply been parrotted since with no regard for the actual facts of the
case).  

--
Richard G. Clegg       Only the mind is waving
    Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
      Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
    www:  http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html