Schumacher officially the greatest

Schumacher officially the greatest

Post by f1fa » Fri, 17 Oct 2003 05:30:29


Anyone can talk about numbers all thay want, numbers of wins, poles, pod
iums etc, etc, etc. I'm a huge fan of Michael and Ferrari. He's brillian
t in all conditions and ruthless like Senna. He's a thinking man in the
car like Prost Clark and Stewart. And he's a team player who, most of th
e time, gets the most from his equipment.

He's had his flaws, like blowing the title in '97 when he drove into Jac
ques, and took himself out. He blew it because, had he bided his time an
d been more sporting, instead of being a fool, he might have re-passed J
acques like the McLaren team did.(Williams was out of tires, and Villene
uve was on used *** from a practice session). He had Monaco in '96 an
d and pressure races where he folded like that day in Jerez in '97 and S
uzuka in '98.

He's had brilliant races, Spain '96, USGP '03, Monaco '97 and he's won p
ressure races, Monza '00 and Monza '03.

I think the most amazing thing about Schumacher however, is the length o
f time that he's stayed on top. There's a span of 10 seasons between his
 first and most recent titles(94-03) matching Lauda(75-84). He's won 6 t
itles an lost two more on the last day.

He's had 10 straight seasons of multiple pole positions which is a recor
d, although Senna also is tied for the record of 10 consecutive seasons
of at least one pole position. Senna still holds the record for poles 65
-55, but Michael has also matched his record for wins from the pole with
 29 a piece, so he has made the most of his poles.

He holds the record for wins without the pole 41-34 to Alain Prost, so h
e can win without the pole.

He's won a race for 12 straight years. He has won multiple races in a se
ason for ten years matching Prost and has had back to back wins in a sea
son for 10 straight years a record. His longevity at the top has been am
azing. No he hasn't had the best equipment.

Nobody ogled over the B192, B193 or B194 and alot of people thought that
 the Williams was better than the B195. The F-310 was a joke and the F31
0B and F300 were mediocre at best. He probably had the best car in 2001
and 2002. And let's not forget, nobody else has won in the last 20 seaso
ns in anything but a Williams or McLaren. And remember where Ferrari and
 Bennetton were when Schumacher got there.

Benetton hadn't won in their 11 year existance and Ferrari hadn't won in
 its last 17. Prost won in a car in '85 that Lauda came out of retiremen
t and spent three years developing, and had won the title with it the ye
ar before. Senna won in '88 but the team had won three of the previous f
our titles. And in '88 Prost set a record with 105 points scored, but Se
nna won the title with 94 points, because the scoring rules droped 18 of
 Prost pionts and only four of Senna's. Talk about a hollow title.

Niether Senna or Prost, who also had first rate designers and teams, sho
wed that they could take a team that was down, and lead it to the top an
d keep it there. Schumacher did it-twice. Benetton rotted because he lef
t. McLaren started to lose their way before Senna left. Then there's Fer
rari.

Michael had stayed at Ferrari when they weren't winning. He didn't aband
on them like Senna did McLaren, and it paid off. They've stayed on top l
onger then anyone. Five constructors in a row, that's a record 4 drivers
 in a row that ties the McLaren record for a single team.
No other driver has won back to back titles more then once. Michael has
been able to do it for two different teams.

Also, when one talks about the quality of the competition, there's nothi
ng like competing with ones self. In 2000 Michael tied the record for bo
th wins and points. He tied or broke both records for each of the next t
wo years. That's never going to happen again. Even with this scoring sys
tem the 144 points and eleven wins is going to be a mountain to climb. W
inning a majority of the races? All drivers have had that opportunity th
at won titles, no matter what the length of the season. Fangio did it th
ree times, twice each for Ascari, Clark and Stewart, once for Mansell an
d Four times for Schumacher.

Do I think Michael is the greatest? Yes. By what measure? Senna, Fangio
and Clark were all better qualifiers. Clark and Lauda and Stewart were a
s good a drivers as there were to develop cars around. Senna, Prost, Lau
da and Fangio all had tremendous consistentcy. In the rain? Fangio, Stew
art, Clark and Senna were all brilliant. Overtaking was a specialty of S
tewart and Fangio, and they were both good in traffic.

As a complete driver to build a team around that's not winning and keep
it at the top, qualify consistently well, get the most from the car, ins
pire the team, keep the fight going to the last round, run quick in all
conditions, go through traffic and make very few errors, and stay right
at the top for more than a decade? I'll take Michael. If he's 22, I know
 that he can still win a rain Soaked Spa. If he's 34, I know that he can
 win a wet US.

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Schumacher officially the greatest

Post by f1fa » Fri, 17 Oct 2003 05:31:24

Anyone can talk about numbers all thay want, numbers of wins, poles, pod
iums etc, etc, etc. I'm a huge fan of Michael and Ferrari. He's brillian
t in all conditions and ruthless like Senna. He's a thinking man in the
car like Prost Clark and Stewart. And he's a team player who, most of th
e time, gets the most from his equipment.

He's had his flaws, like blowing the title in '97 when he drove into Jac
ques, and took himself out. He blew it because, had he bided his time an
d been more sporting, instead of being a fool, he might have re-passed J
acques like the McLaren team did.(Williams was out of tires, and Villene
uve was on used *** from a practice session). He had Monaco in '96 an
d and pressure races where he folded like that day in Jerez in '97 and S
uzuka in '98.

He's had brilliant races, Spain '96, USGP '03, Monaco '97 and he's won p
ressure races, Monza '00 and Monza '03.

I think the most amazing thing about Schumacher however, is the length o
f time that he's stayed on top. There's a span of 10 seasons between his
 first and most recent titles(94-03) matching Lauda(75-84). He's won 6 t
itles an lost two more on the last day.

He's had 10 straight seasons of multiple pole positions which is a recor
d, although Senna also is tied for the record of 10 consecutive seasons
of at least one pole position. Senna still holds the record for poles 65
-55, but Michael has also matched his record for wins from the pole with
 29 a piece, so he has made the most of his poles.

He holds the record for wins without the pole 41-34 to Alain Prost, so h
e can win without the pole.

He's won a race for 12 straight years. He has won multiple races in a se
ason for ten years matching Prost and has had back to back wins in a sea
son for 10 straight years a record. His longevity at the top has been am
azing. No he hasn't had the best equipment.

Nobody ogled over the B192, B193 or B194 and alot of people thought that
 the Williams was better than the B195. The F-310 was a joke and the F31
0B and F300 were mediocre at best. He probably had the best car in 2001
and 2002. And let's not forget, nobody else has won in the last 20 seaso
ns in anything but a Williams or McLaren. And remember where Ferrari and
 Bennetton were when Schumacher got there.

Benetton hadn't won in their 11 year existance and Ferrari hadn't won in
 its last 17. Prost won in a car in '85 that Lauda came out of retiremen
t and spent three years developing, and had won the title with it the ye
ar before. Senna won in '88 but the team had won three of the previous f
our titles. And in '88 Prost set a record with 105 points scored, but Se
nna won the title with 94 points, because the scoring rules droped 18 of
 Prost pionts and only four of Senna's. Talk about a hollow title.

Niether Senna or Prost, who also had first rate designers and teams, sho
wed that they could take a team that was down, and lead it to the top an
d keep it there. Schumacher did it-twice. Benetton rotted because he lef
t. McLaren started to lose their way before Senna left. Then there's Fer
rari.

Michael had stayed at Ferrari when they weren't winning. He didn't aband
on them like Senna did McLaren, and it paid off. They've stayed on top l
onger then anyone. Five constructors in a row, that's a record 4 drivers
 in a row that ties the McLaren record for a single team.
No other driver has won back to back titles more then once. Michael has
been able to do it for two different teams.

Also, when one talks about the quality of the competition, there's nothi
ng like competing with ones self. In 2000 Michael tied the record for bo
th wins and points. He tied or broke both records for each of the next t
wo years. That's never going to happen again. Even with this scoring sys
tem the 144 points and eleven wins is going to be a mountain to climb. W
inning a majority of the races? All drivers have had that opportunity th
at won titles, no matter what the length of the season. Fangio did it th
ree times, twice each for Ascari, Clark and Stewart, once for Mansell an
d Four times for Schumacher.

Do I think Michael is the greatest? Yes. By what measure? Senna, Fangio
and Clark were all better qualifiers. Clark and Lauda and Stewart were a
s good a drivers as there were to develop cars around. Senna, Prost, Lau
da and Fangio all had tremendous consistentcy. In the rain? Fangio, Stew
art, Clark and Senna were all brilliant. Overtaking was a specialty of S
tewart and Fangio, and they were both good in traffic.

As a complete driver to build a team around that's not winning and keep
it at the top, qualify consistently well, get the most from the car, ins
pire the team, keep the fight going to the last round, run quick in all
conditions, go through traffic and make very few errors, and stay right
at the top for more than a decade? I'll take Michael. If he's 22, I know
 that he can still win a rain Soaked Spa. If he's 34, I know that he can
 win a wet US.

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Schumacher officially the greatest

Post by btioni » Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:16:03


Quote:

> Anyone can talk about numbers all thay want, numbers of wins, poles, pod
> iums etc, etc, etc. I'm a huge fan of Michael and Ferrari. He's brillian
> t in all conditions and ruthless like Senna. He's a thinking man in the
> car like Prost Clark and Stewart. And he's a team player who, most of th
> e time, gets the most from his equipment.

> He's had his flaws, like blowing the title in '97 when he drove into Jac
> ques, and took himself out. He blew it because, had he bided his time an
> d been more sporting, instead of being a fool, he might have re-passed J
> acques like the McLaren team did.(Williams was out of tires, and Villene
> uve was on used *** from a practice session). He had Monaco in '96 an
> d and pressure races where he folded like that day in Jerez in '97 and S
> uzuka in '98.

<snip masses of bullshit>

***post, you need to get a life.

 
 
 

Schumacher officially the greatest

Post by J.R. » Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:07:27

Didn't even read the post, just saw your idiotic title.

Officially? By whose standards? You'll take some convincing to pull me
through this one, sorry.

J.R.

 
 
 

Schumacher officially the greatest

Post by Fred » Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:26:01


Quote:

> Anyone can talk about numbers all thay want,

If you insist!

Schumacher is a very good F1 driver, with the budget and team planning of
Ferrari behind him he has achieved better numbers than most. But he will
never command the respect  that Senna has.

 
 
 

Schumacher officially the greatest

Post by f1fa » Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:43:09

Schumacher officially the greatest

Michael Schumacher celebrated an historic sixth World Championship after
 surviving a double scare at the Japanese Grand Prix in Suzuka.

The German finished eighth but was certain of taking the drivers' title
after Ferrari team-mate Rubens Barrichello deservedly triumphed to deny
second-placed Kimi Raikkonen the victory he needed.

Schumacher's success by two points enabled him to break the record of fi
ve titles he shared with the legendary Juan Manuel Fangio, and he also b
ecame the first man since the Argentine in 1957 to win the championship
four years in succession.

But the 34-year-old had an anxious 53-lap race after being relegated to
last early on following a collision with BAR's Japanese driver Takuma Sa
to in his first grand prix for 12 months.

Schumacher, who went into the race nine points ahead of Raikkonen, later
 had a collision with the Williams of his brother Ralf after a fierce sx
xxx for track position.

The 34-year-old would have been guaranteed the title anyway thanks to Ba
rrichello's seventh career victory by 11 seconds from Raikkonen, whose M
cLaren team-mate David Coulthard finished third.

It was a double celebration for Ferrari as they clinched the Constructor
s' Championship for the fifth year in succession.

Jenson Button finished his first season in style with an excellent fourt
h place for BAR with Renault's Jarno Trulli fifth and Sato sixth while T
oyota's Cristiano da Matta was seventh.

Brit Justin Wilson and Ralph Firman brought their rookie seasons to a cl
ose with 13th and 14th places respectively for Jaguar Racing and Jordan.

The duo must now wait to see if they will be retained by their teams for
 2004.

Schumacher deserved the title having won six races compared to Raikkonen
's solitary success in the second grand prix of the 16-race season in Ma
laysia in March.

Raikkonen, 24 next week, had kept in contention with a string of podium
positions but on the day could not get the victory that would have given
 him the chance of becoming the youngest world champion in history.

Schumacher showed his race craft and aggressiveness on the track as he c
arved his way through the field following the sixth-lap incident with Sa
to when he damaged his nose cone as the local driver defended his positi
on as the champ tried to overtake.

The Swiss-based racer, who won his first two titles with Benetton in 199
4 and 1995, is clearly the most successful driver in the 54-year history
 of the championship and has set records which could endure for several
generations.

Schumacher had vowed to win the title in style but after qualifying 14th
, his worst starting slot for over eight years, and the early incidents,
 he had to settle for the solitary point.

Button's fine drive, the fifth time he has finished fourth, helped BAR s
natch fifth place in the Manufacturers' Championship with Sato - called
up after Jacques Villeneuve walked away from the team one race early - s
coring points on his return to racing. He was fifth on his last outing i
n Japan with Jordan 12 months ago.

The cheers from the sell-out 160,000 crowd were greater for their hero,
who will partner Button in 2004, than those for Schumacher.

Story filed: 08:17 Sunday 12th October 2003

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Schumacher officially the greatest

Post by f1fa » Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:43:33

Schumacher officially the greatest

Michael Schumacher celebrated an historic sixth World Championship after
 surviving a double scare at the Japanese Grand Prix in Suzuka.

The German finished eighth but was certain of taking the drivers' title
after Ferrari team-mate Rubens Barrichello deservedly triumphed to deny
second-placed Kimi Raikkonen the victory he needed.

Schumacher's success by two points enabled him to break the record of fi
ve titles he shared with the legendary Juan Manuel Fangio, and he also b
ecame the first man since the Argentine in 1957 to win the championship
four years in succession.

But the 34-year-old had an anxious 53-lap race after being relegated to
last early on following a collision with BAR's Japanese driver Takuma Sa
to in his first grand prix for 12 months.

Schumacher, who went into the race nine points ahead of Raikkonen, later
 had a collision with the Williams of his brother Ralf after a fierce sx
xxx for track position.

The 34-year-old would have been guaranteed the title anyway thanks to Ba
rrichello's seventh career victory by 11 seconds from Raikkonen, whose M
cLaren team-mate David Coulthard finished third.

It was a double celebration for Ferrari as they clinched the Constructor
s' Championship for the fifth year in succession.

Jenson Button finished his first season in style with an excellent fourt
h place for BAR with Renault's Jarno Trulli fifth and Sato sixth while T
oyota's Cristiano da Matta was seventh.

Brit Justin Wilson and Ralph Firman brought their rookie seasons to a cl
ose with 13th and 14th places respectively for Jaguar Racing and Jordan.

The duo must now wait to see if they will be retained by their teams for
 2004.

Schumacher deserved the title having won six races compared to Raikkonen
's solitary success in the second grand prix of the 16-race season in Ma
laysia in March.

Raikkonen, 24 next week, had kept in contention with a string of podium
positions but on the day could not get the victory that would have given
 him the chance of becoming the youngest world champion in history.

Schumacher showed his race craft and aggressiveness on the track as he c
arved his way through the field following the sixth-lap incident with Sa
to when he damaged his nose cone as the local driver defended his positi
on as the champ tried to overtake.

The Swiss-based racer, who won his first two titles with Benetton in 199
4 and 1995, is clearly the most successful driver in the 54-year history
 of the championship and has set records which could endure for several
generations.

Schumacher had vowed to win the title in style but after qualifying 14th
, his worst starting slot for over eight years, and the early incidents,
 he had to settle for the solitary point.

Button's fine drive, the fifth time he has finished fourth, helped BAR s
natch fifth place in the Manufacturers' Championship with Sato - called
up after Jacques Villeneuve walked away from the team one race early - s
coring points on his return to racing. He was fifth on his last outing i
n Japan with Jordan 12 months ago.

The cheers from the sell-out 160,000 crowd were greater for their hero,
who will partner Button in 2004, than those for Schumacher.

Story filed: 08:17 Sunday 12th October 2003

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Schumacher officially the greatest

Post by Bob D » Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:54:48

Quote:

> Didn't even read the post, just saw your idiotic title.

> Officially? By whose standards? You'll take some convincing to pull me
> through this one, sorry.

> J.R.

You can always tell the weakness of argument by the number
of times its advocates state it.  The sheer number of "MS
is the best" posts is reminiscent of Joseph Goebbels's
view on lies: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep
repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

I'm not calling "f1fan" a Nazi, I merely point out that he
is using the same tactics of desperation and dishonesty.

Bob Dog

 
 
 

Schumacher officially the greatest

Post by Arancio » Sat, 18 Oct 2003 00:49:10

Quote:

> Anyone can talk about numbers all thay want, numbers of wins, poles, pod
> iums etc, etc, etc. I'm a huge fan of Michael and Ferrari. He's brillian
> t in all conditions and ruthless like Senna. He's a thinking man in the
> car like Prost Clark and Stewart. And he's a team player who, most of th
> e time, gets the most from his equipment.

> He's had his flaws, like blowing the title in '97 when he drove into Jac
> ques, and took himself out. He blew it because, had he bided his time an
> d been more sporting, instead of being a fool, he might have re-passed J
> acques like the McLaren team did.(Williams was out of tires, and Villene
> uve was on used *** from a practice session). He had Monaco in '96 an
> d and pressure races where he folded like that day in Jerez in '97 and S
> uzuka in '98.

> He's had brilliant races, Spain '96, USGP '03, Monaco '97 and he's won p
> ressure races, Monza '00 and Monza '03.

> I think the most amazing thing about Schumacher however, is the length o
> f time that he's stayed on top. There's a span of 10 seasons between his
>  first and most recent titles(94-03) matching Lauda(75-84). He's won 6 t
> itles an lost two more on the last day.

> He's had 10 straight seasons of multiple pole positions which is a recor
> d, although Senna also is tied for the record of 10 consecutive seasons
> of at least one pole position. Senna still holds the record for poles 65
> -55, but Michael has also matched his record for wins from the pole with
>  29 a piece, so he has made the most of his poles.

> He holds the record for wins without the pole 41-34 to Alain Prost, so h
> e can win without the pole.

> He's won a race for 12 straight years. He has won multiple races in a se
> ason for ten years matching Prost and has had back to back wins in a sea
> son for 10 straight years a record. His longevity at the top has been am
> azing. No he hasn't had the best equipment.

> Nobody ogled over the B192, B193 or B194 and alot of people thought that
>  the Williams was better than the B195. The F-310 was a joke and the F31
> 0B and F300 were mediocre at best. He probably had the best car in 2001
> and 2002. And let's not forget, nobody else has won in the last 20 seaso
> ns in anything but a Williams or McLaren. And remember where Ferrari and
>  Bennetton were when Schumacher got there.

> Benetton hadn't won in their 11 year existance and Ferrari hadn't won in
>  its last 17. Prost won in a car in '85 that Lauda came out of retiremen
> t and spent three years developing, and had won the title with it the ye
> ar before. Senna won in '88 but the team had won three of the previous f
> our titles. And in '88 Prost set a record with 105 points scored, but Se
> nna won the title with 94 points, because the scoring rules droped 18 of
>  Prost pionts and only four of Senna's. Talk about a hollow title.

> Niether Senna or Prost, who also had first rate designers and teams, sho
> wed that they could take a team that was down, and lead it to the top an
> d keep it there. Schumacher did it-twice. Benetton rotted because he lef
> t. McLaren started to lose their way before Senna left. Then there's Fer
> rari.

> Michael had stayed at Ferrari when they weren't winning. He didn't aband
> on them like Senna did McLaren, and it paid off. They've stayed on top l
> onger then anyone. Five constructors in a row, that's a record 4 drivers
>  in a row that ties the McLaren record for a single team.
> No other driver has won back to back titles more then once. Michael has
> been able to do it for two different teams.

> Also, when one talks about the quality of the competition, there's nothi
> ng like competing with ones self. In 2000 Michael tied the record for bo
> th wins and points. He tied or broke both records for each of the next t
> wo years. That's never going to happen again. Even with this scoring sys
> tem the 144 points and eleven wins is going to be a mountain to climb. W
> inning a majority of the races? All drivers have had that opportunity th
> at won titles, no matter what the length of the season. Fangio did it th
> ree times, twice each for Ascari, Clark and Stewart, once for Mansell an
> d Four times for Schumacher.

> Do I think Michael is the greatest? Yes. By what measure? Senna, Fangio
> and Clark were all better qualifiers. Clark and Lauda and Stewart were a
> s good a drivers as there were to develop cars around. Senna, Prost, Lau
> da and Fangio all had tremendous consistentcy. In the rain? Fangio, Stew
> art, Clark and Senna were all brilliant. Overtaking was a specialty of S
> tewart and Fangio, and they were both good in traffic.

> As a complete driver to build a team around that's not winning and keep
> it at the top, qualify consistently well, get the most from the car, ins
> pire the team, keep the fight going to the last round, run quick in all
> conditions, go through traffic and make very few errors, and stay right
> at the top for more than a decade? I'll take Michael. If he's 22, I know
>  that he can still win a rain Soaked Spa. If he's 34, I know that he can
>  win a wet US.

Interesting.
 
 
 

Schumacher officially the greatest

Post by Arancio » Sat, 18 Oct 2003 00:52:27

Quote:



> > Anyone can talk about numbers all thay want,
> If you insist!

> Schumacher is a very good F1 driver, with the budget and team planning of
> Ferrari behind him he has achieved better numbers than most. But he will
> never command the respect  that Senna has.

 ROTFL! Senna was the biggest cheater and filthiest driver F1 has ever
seen. If the arrogant *** hadn't killed himself in 1994 he would
have ended killing another driver pretty soon anyways...
 
 
 

Schumacher officially the greatest

Post by Gunther Rola » Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:00:33


Quote:


>> Didn't even read the post, just saw your idiotic title.

>> Officially? By whose standards? You'll take some convincing to pull me
>> through this one, sorry.

>> J.R.

>You can always tell the weakness of argument by the number
>of times its advocates state it.

I assume I can also apply this argument ("Bob Dogs Razor") to the countless
'Schmacker is a cheating scumbag who only wins because he has the best car, no
opposition, the FIA, Bernie Ecclestone and the devil on his side etc etc etc"
posts that make up the bulk of the "discussion" in rasf1?

Gunther