Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

Post by young » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:41:50


http://www.totalf1.com/columns/columns.php?columntype=weekly_wrap&col...

Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

Ferrari technical director Ross Brawn has told the media that Rubens
Barrichello will have to earn his second place in the championship,
and that Michael Schumacher will not be asked to pull over to let the
Brazilian win. Barrichello was asked to make way for Schumacher in
Austria, where the Brazilian clearly would have won the race.  

"We'd like Rubens to finish second, but we're not going to do anything
silly to achieve that, so we'll see what happens, Brawn said.

Funny, they clearly wanted Michael to win the championship but were
completely prepared to do something silly to achieve that. Somehow
what Ferrari pulled off in Austria will never be forgotten, even Brawn
still seems to think about it.

"There are some things we still want to achieve in the rest of the
season, Brawn continued, but we all know what happened in Austria,
and that's something we don't want to repeat, so we'll try and do it
in the nicest possible way."  

What on earth could those some things be? Lets see, theyve secured
both championships, both drivers have won a race, theres been 1-2
finishes, Schumacher is tied with the record for wins in a season
Ill take a wild, completely left wing guess that they want Schumacher
to get his tenth win. And then eleventh. Hell why not make it an even
number and go all the way to twelve! To do it in the nicest possible
way, all Ross has to do is play with the pit stops a bit to get
Schumacher in front. I dont trust what that man says anymore

Youngy
Montoya/Williams 2003 WDC

 
 
 

Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

Post by CatharticF » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:52:00



Quote:
> http://www.totalf1.com/columns/columns.php?columntype=weekly_wrap&col...

> Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

> Ferrari technical director Ross Brawn has told the media that Rubens
> Barrichello will have to earn his second place in the championship,
> and that Michael Schumacher will not be asked to pull over to let the
> Brazilian win. Barrichello was asked to make way for Schumacher in
> Austria, where the Brazilian clearly would have won the race.  

<snip>

I think you should read this differently. This is just laying the
groundwork for when Schu has a bad out lap, longer than expected pitstop
etc. The world has spoken, and it's saying that they prefer to *believe*
they're racing. Do the deed in secret - don't tell us about it! I think
you'll find Rubens' relative success, post Michael winning the WDC, is
better than before. Whenever there are no cars between them of course.

--
CatharticF1
Brisbane, Australia

The trouble with probability is that it's only right most of the time.

 
 
 

Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

Post by young » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 20:10:16



Quote:


>> http://www.totalf1.com/columns/columns.php?columntype=weekly_wrap&col...

>> Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

>> Ferrari technical director Ross Brawn has told the media that Rubens
>> Barrichello will have to earn his second place in the championship,
>> and that Michael Schumacher will not be asked to pull over to let the
>> Brazilian win. Barrichello was asked to make way for Schumacher in
>> Austria, where the Brazilian clearly would have won the race.  

><snip>

>I think you should read this differently. This is just laying the
>groundwork for when Schu has a bad out lap, longer than expected pitstop
>etc. The world has spoken, and it's saying that they prefer to *believe*
>they're racing. Do the deed in secret - don't tell us about it! I think
>you'll find Rubens' relative success, post Michael winning the WDC, is
>better than before. Whenever there are no cars between them of course.

Hey I just posted the entire article as it was.  I found it
interesting and didn't add any interpretation to the comments made.
I'm sure some will agree with your interpretation and others will
accuse Ferrari of Gross hypocrisy.

Youngy
Montoya/Williams 2003 WDC

 
 
 

Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

Post by bddkan » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 20:14:58


http://www.totalf1.com/columns/columns.php?columntype=weekly_wrap&col...

Quote:
> both championships, both drivers have won a race, there's been 1-2
> finishes, Schumacher is tied with the record for wins in a season.
> I'll take a wild, completely left wing guess that they want Schumacher
> to get his tenth win. And then eleventh. Hell why not make it an even
> number and go all the way to twelve! To do it in the nicest possible
> way, all Ross has to do is play with the pit stops a bit to get
> Schumacher in front. I don't trust what that man says anymore.

The facts are that he is a loathsome cheat possibly the driving force that
made schumacher agree to cheating with TC and driver aids in the Benetton.
Without Braun, Schumacher would not have won one WDC.
 
 
 

Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

Post by A. Groenenboo » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 20:28:57

Quote:



> The facts are that he is a loathsome cheat possibly the driving force that
> made schumacher agree to cheating with TC and driver aids in the Benetton.
> Without Braun, Schumacher would not have won one WDC.

For anyone that doesn't know this: Braun is the manufacturer of
Schumacher's shaving-machines. Smooth like a baby's bottom! :-)

Auke
--
" Good.... Bad.... I'm the guy with the gun. "

- a DOT groenenboom AT student DOT tudelft DOT nl -

 
 
 

Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

Post by Frank or is it Jackie » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 20:36:04



Quote:
>> Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

>> Ferrari technical director Ross Brawn has told the media that Rubens
>> Barrichello will have to earn his second place in the championship,
>> and that Michael Schumacher will not be asked to pull over to let the
>> Brazilian win. Barrichello was asked to make way for Schumacher in
>> Austria, where the Brazilian clearly would have won the race.  

><snip>

>I think you should read this differently. This is just laying the
>groundwork for when Schu has a bad out lap, longer than expected pitstop
>etc. The world has spoken, and it's saying that they prefer to *believe*
>they're racing. Do the deed in secret - don't tell us about it! I think
>you'll find Rubens' relative success, post Michael winning the WDC, is
>better than before. Whenever there are no cars between them of course.

Granted. However, you have to ask the question. Just how f*ing
pathetic  is this Ferrari team on the PR level and just how stupid
they think the public is ?  
Everyone but a dehydrated (read: less than 8 glasses a day) cane toad
knows that they've used Barrichello to aid Schumi to win. Fine.
Everyone read or heard Schumi saying that he'll do everything he can,
to re-pay Rubens by aiding him to second place. Fair enough, he owes
him that.  
Then Brawn comes out with this newly revised, in your face lie ?

And you respect and root for these pack of***heads ?    
C'mon Brendan, even you have to see how bad this looks and IS.

--
Regards, Frank

 
 
 

Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

Post by CatharticF » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 21:57:29



Quote:


> >> Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

> >> Ferrari technical director Ross Brawn has told the media that Rubens
> >> Barrichello will have to earn his second place in the championship,
> >> and that Michael Schumacher will not be asked to pull over to let the
> >> Brazilian win. Barrichello was asked to make way for Schumacher in
> >> Austria, where the Brazilian clearly would have won the race.  

> ><snip>

> >I think you should read this differently. This is just laying the
> >groundwork for when Schu has a bad out lap, longer than expected pitstop
> >etc. The world has spoken, and it's saying that they prefer to *believe*
> >they're racing. Do the deed in secret - don't tell us about it! I think
> >you'll find Rubens' relative success, post Michael winning the WDC, is
> >better than before. Whenever there are no cars between them of course.

> Granted. However, you have to ask the question. Just how f*ing
> pathetic  is this Ferrari team on the PR level and just how stupid
> they think the public is ?  
> Everyone but a dehydrated (read: less than 8 glasses a day) cane toad
> knows that they've used Barrichello to aid Schumi to win. Fine.
> Everyone read or heard Schumi saying that he'll do everything he can,
> to re-pay Rubens by aiding him to second place. Fair enough, he owes
> him that.  
> Then Brawn comes out with this newly revised, in your face lie ?

> And you respect and root for these pack of***heads ?    
> C'mon Brendan, even you have to see how bad this looks and IS.

I remember Niki Lauda saying that Alain Prost didn't need his help to win
the WDC (the year after Lauda beat him by half a point I think). They
were both driving for McLaren. It was obvious that Lauda would help him
and also that Prost was more than capable. So I don't think there is
anything abnormal in this, it's par for the course really.

I know what's going on, and so do you - I'm just surprised at the journo
who wrote it more than anything.

But really, Frank - what else can you do? If they race each other and
one of them locks a brake and takes the other out they'll look very
foolish. You would expect Schu to beat him most of the time, and that may
not get the result they want. If Ferrari do it without deception, youch -
as we've seen! Hence this more subtle presentation. Frankly (I've always
wanted to say that to a 'Frank') I would prefer they came out and said
it. But as mentioned, it's been proven that you have to engage in secret
business to provide some doubt.

Let's face it, all the FIA wants is deception. Frank Williams has no
problem with it, said as much at the time and has exercised team orders,
this is not unique to Ferrari - if perhaps more prevalent currently due
to their success and other factors.

For all of the FIA's fuss, nothing else has changed - and is that
really better?

--
CatharticF1
Brisbane, Australia

The trouble with probability is that it's only right most of the time.

 
 
 

Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

Post by CatharticF » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 22:06:29



Quote:




> >> http://www.totalf1.com/columns/columns.php?columntype=weekly_wrap&col...

> >> Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

> >> Ferrari technical director Ross Brawn has told the media that Rubens
> >> Barrichello will have to earn his second place in the championship,
> >> and that Michael Schumacher will not be asked to pull over to let the
> >> Brazilian win. Barrichello was asked to make way for Schumacher in
> >> Austria, where the Brazilian clearly would have won the race.  

> ><snip>

> >I think you should read this differently. This is just laying the
> >groundwork for when Schu has a bad out lap, longer than expected pitstop
> >etc. The world has spoken, and it's saying that they prefer to *believe*
> >they're racing. Do the deed in secret - don't tell us about it! I think
> >you'll find Rubens' relative success, post Michael winning the WDC, is
> >better than before. Whenever there are no cars between them of course.

> Hey I just posted the entire article as it was.  I found it
> interesting and didn't add any interpretation to the comments made.
> I'm sure some will agree with your interpretation and others will
> accuse Ferrari of Gross hypocrisy.

No no - didn't mean to imply it was your interpretation (perhaps I did?).
I think they're likely being very consistent, but the point of
consistency is in pursuing the most important thing they haven't yet won,
and supporting the person going after it. It's certainly Rubens' turn.

--
CatharticF1
Brisbane, Australia

The trouble with probability is that it's only right most of the time.

 
 
 

Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

Post by Frank or is it Jackie » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 22:43:47



Quote:
>I know what's going on, and so do you - I'm just surprised at the journo
>who wrote it more than anything.

>But really, Frank - what else can you do? If they race each other and

I would have just left it as it was. What happened, has happened
things were done and said, all under the bridge. But Brawn is like a
little boy who just doesn't know when it's time to stop telling the
lies. Maybe it's time someone spanked him.
It's not even the lie that bothers me that much, after all they(teams)
all lie to a certain extent. Rather the fact that they take us (the
fans) for raving idiots.
This is not only bad for Ferrari as it may disillusion some of their
fans, but it's bad for the whole sport in general.

As you said we Razzers and inbred F1 fans all know what's going on,
The general public knows it too now, because they blew the "secret" in
Austria. I'm not quite sure about the death toll, but i think most of
us are learning to live with it. :)  
They should just shut up, finish the season and let time heal what
happened. By contradicting each other they're just stirring up the
same old smelly deposit.

Quote:
>one of them locks a brake and takes the other out they'll look very
>foolish. You would expect Schu to beat him most of the time, and that may
>not get the result they want. If Ferrari do it without deception, youch -
>as we've seen! Hence this more subtle presentation. Frankly (I've always
>wanted to say that to a 'Frank') I would prefer they came out and said
>it. But as mentioned, it's been proven that you have to engage in secret
>business to provide some doubt.

Well they've failed. I have no doubts about what will happen. :-)
Rubens will take second place, with the help from Schumi.

Quote:
>Let's face it, all the FIA wants is deception. Frank Williams has no
>problem with it, said as much at the time and has exercised team orders,
>this is not unique to Ferrari - if perhaps more prevalent currently due
>to their success and other factors.

LOL.. "other factors" is that how you spell "Austria" up there ? ;-)

Quote:
>For all of the FIA's fuss, nothing else has changed - and is that
>really better?

Nah-ahh.  We're  not going there again. :-)

--
Regards, Frank

 
 
 

Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

Post by QP » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 22:52:47

Quote:

> http://www.totalf1.com/columns/columns.php?columntype=weekly_wrap&col...

> Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!
<snip>
> What on earth could those some things be? Lets see, theyve secured
> both championships, both drivers have won a race, theres been 1-2
> finishes, Schumacher is tied with the record for wins in a season
> Ill take a wild, completely left wing guess that they want Schumacher
> to get his tenth win. And then eleventh. Hell why not make it an even
> number and go all the way to twelve! To do it in the nicest possible
> way, all Ross has to do is play with the pit stops a bit to get
> Schumacher in front. I dont trust what that man says anymore

> Youngy
> Montoya/Williams 2003 WDC

I thought it was obvious that Rubens was handed the victory in Hungary
from the start, so IMHO the above makes no sense.  

QP

 
 
 

Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

Post by Opus On » Fri, 30 Aug 2002 23:37:48



Quote:


>> http://SportToday.org/

>> Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

>> Ferrari technical director Ross Brawn has told the media that Rubens
>> Barrichello will have to earn his second place in the championship,
>> and that Michael Schumacher will not be asked to pull over to let the
>> Brazilian win. Barrichello was asked to make way for Schumacher in
>> Austria, where the Brazilian clearly would have won the race.  

><snip>

>I think you should read this differently. This is just laying the
>groundwork for when Schu has a bad out lap, longer than expected pitstop
>etc. The world has spoken, and it's saying that they prefer to *believe*
>they're racing. Do the deed in secret - don't tell us about it! I think
>you'll find Rubens' relative success, post Michael winning the WDC, is
>better than before. Whenever there are no cars between them of course.

"Yes ***ia; there is a Santa Claus"...

MJF

 
 
 

Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

Post by Steven Wheele » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 15:09:41

Quote:

> Frankly (I've always wanted to say that to a 'Frank') ...

Or "To be Frank..." perhaps?

Regards,

Steve.

 
 
 

Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

Post by young » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 15:15:54



Quote:
> If they race each other and
>one of them locks a brake and takes the other out they'll look very
>foolish.

This is where i somewhat disagree. So what if this happened. It would
mean 2 people involved in a genuine race, had an incident but so what.
I'd rather see this happen occasionally and be watching real racing,
even between teammates, than the artificial racing we get served up
now.

This is not an argument on wether other teams have done it in the past
or a particular criticism of Ferrari, but rather a criticsim of every
team who decides to go down this path, expecially to the extent that
Ferrari has this year. I think we can understand some team work, near
the end of a season, during a close championship and accept that that
is in the best interest of the team and sport. The ***that goes on
this year by Ferrari, (or if it was done by any other team in the
future) is just displaying contempt for the fans, absolute poor
sportsmanship and a naivity in expecting fans to continually accept
and put up with it in the longer term.

The world has changed since Fangio's day when drivers could commandeer
a teammates car and i suspect it is further changing in accepting
anything other than genuine competition even between teammates. It
would do F1 as a sport well to recognise this and not put at jeopardy,
the enormous worldwide following it has built up in the past decade.

Youngy
Montoya/Williams 2003 WDC

 
 
 

Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

Post by DC » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 15:36:42

Quote:



>> If they race each other and
>>one of them locks a brake and takes the other out they'll look very
>>foolish.

>This is where i somewhat disagree. So what if this happened. It would
>mean 2 people involved in a genuine race, had an incident but so what.
>I'd rather see this happen occasionally and be watching real racing,
>even between teammates, than the artificial racing we get served up
>now.

>This is not an argument on wether other teams have done it in the past
>or a particular criticism of Ferrari, but rather a criticsim of every
>team who decides to go down this path, expecially to the extent that
>Ferrari has this year. I think we can understand some team work, near
>the end of a season, during a close championship and accept that that
>is in the best interest of the team and sport. The ***that goes on
>this year by Ferrari, (or if it was done by any other team in the
>future) is just displaying contempt for the fans, absolute poor
>sportsmanship and a naivity in expecting fans to continually accept
>and put up with it in the longer term.

>The world has changed since Fangio's day when drivers could commandeer
>a teammates car and i suspect it is further changing in accepting
>anything other than genuine competition even between teammates. It
>would do F1 as a sport well to recognise this and not put at jeopardy,
>the enormous worldwide following it has built up in the past decade.

Well put, youngy. But our resident blinkered tifosi will, of course,
have none of it...

David

 
 
 

Ross Brawn Says: You Gotta Earn It Rubens!

Post by CatharticF » Sat, 31 Aug 2002 16:22:51


Quote:


> > If they race each other and
> >one of them locks a brake and takes the other out they'll look very
> >foolish.

> This is where i somewhat disagree. So what if this happened. It would
> mean 2 people involved in a genuine race, had an incident but so what.
> I'd rather see this happen occasionally and be watching real racing,
> even between teammates, than the artificial racing we get served up
> now.

> This is not an argument on wether other teams have done it in the past
> or a particular criticism of Ferrari, but rather a criticsim of every
> team who decides to go down this path, expecially to the extent that
> Ferrari has this year. I think we can understand some team work, near
> the end of a season, during a close championship and accept that that
> is in the best interest of the team and sport. The ***that goes on
> this year by Ferrari, (or if it was done by any other team in the
> future) is just displaying contempt for the fans, absolute poor
> sportsmanship and a naivity in expecting fans to continually accept
> and put up with it in the longer term.

> The world has changed since Fangio's day when drivers could commandeer
> a teammates car and i suspect it is further changing in accepting
> anything other than genuine competition even between teammates. It
> would do F1 as a sport well to recognise this and not put at jeopardy,
> the enormous worldwide following it has built up in the past decade.

Philosophically, it might surprise you to hear that I agree with you.
But were I in their position, I don't know that the result would be any
different, even if the presentation were. Do you remember Colin Bond and
Alan Moffat's formation finish at Bathurst (long time ago..)? That was
my first time watching it happen.

--
CatharticF1
Brisbane, Australia

The trouble with probability is that it's only right most of the time.