Team mate Destroyers: Schumi, Heinz-H, Mika H

Team mate Destroyers: Schumi, Heinz-H, Mika H

Post by Sami A Miettin » Wed, 24 Apr 1996 04:00:00


It is *** to see the work of the true team-mate destroyers:
Schumacher, Frenzen and Hakkinen. All these three leave only "complaining
second-rate drivers" behind. It may not be a pleasure to be driving in
the same team as these gentleman. You have a great probability that there
won't be another season for you...

-Sami

 
 
 

Team mate Destroyers: Schumi, Heinz-H, Mika H

Post by Torsten Torped » Wed, 24 Apr 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
>Schumacher, Frenzen and Hakkinen. All these three leave only "complaining
>second-rate drivers" behind. It may not be a pleasure to be driving in
>the same team as these gentleman. You have a great probability that there
>won't be another season for you...

There're still a lot of people around who apparently think, this would be due
to these guys, manipulating there team mates. When will they recognize that, at
first, there's a quick driver, and AFTER seeing that, the team concentrates on
this guy? Especially, if the other driver obviously is consistently slower than
"the team's number one".
Torpedo
__________________

http://rphc1.physik.uni-regensburg.de:80/~scm04312/F1.html

 
 
 

Team mate Destroyers: Schumi, Heinz-H, Mika H

Post by Tuomo O. Vuolteenah » Thu, 25 Apr 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
> And what about Hakkinen? I don't think he destroyed Brundle
> nor Coulthard yet. Blundell is a different case. And I don't think Mika
> really destroyed Senna (that was Williams, not Hakkinen).

Once more on Hakkinen: Equal with Senna, quicker than Coulthard, Blundell,
Brundle, and Mansell. In tests several seconds faster than Prost,
Andretti, and Magnussen. Only puzzle is the season in Lotus, when then
promising Herbert (#1 driver of the team) equalled Hakkinen in
qualification. (Hakkinen scored three-four times more points, though.)

No destruction for its own sake, just pure speed.

Quote:
> I wouldn't want to be in a team with the German couple but I wouldn't
> mind Mika.

Well, the German couple has that one thing in common, so you three are an
unlikely combination in one team. But, if you were the quickest, you'd
probably get the prize, too. She must be beautiful...

Quote:
> Anyway, Irvine and Herbert sure have problems again but David is settling
> now and he drover OK in Argentina.

To quote a famous film, zero points is "pretty f**king far from ok."

Tuomo

 
 
 

Team mate Destroyers: Schumi, Heinz-H, Mika H

Post by Yousuf Kh » Thu, 25 Apr 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
>It is *** to see the work of the true team-mate destroyers:
>Schumacher, Frenzen and Hakkinen. All these three leave only "complaining
>second-rate drivers" behind. It may not be a pleasure to be driving in
>the same team as these gentleman. You have a great probability that there
>won't be another season for you...

I can understand Schumacher, but how exactly do you categorize
Frentzen or Hakkinen as teammate destroyers?

Hakkinen teammates: 1993, Ayrton Senna was not exactly devastated by
Hakkinen. 1994, Martin Brundle had a second place finish that year,
Hakk only had a third. 1995, Nigel Mansell, well yeah, maybe he was
destroyed that year, but he destroyed himself. 1995, Martin Blundell,
was a replacement driver, never expected to really do much. Never
heard any of the teammates complain about him while they worked there
together.

Frentzen teammates: 1993-1994, Carl Wendlinger. Carl was the veteran
of the team in 1993, and he definitely had the number one position
within the team that first year (mainly due to familiarity with the
car), it was mainly a learning year for HHF. In 1994, Carl had that
accident and he was never again the same. JJLehto and someone else
(Andrea somebody?) were Carl's replacements that year, and of course
they were replacement drivers, not expected to do much. 1995, I can't
even remember who else drove for Sauber that year; so maybe you're
right, HHF did destroy whoever that teammate (blew him from memory
:-)). Yet, still I heard no complaints about HHF from any teammates.

                                        Yousuf Khan
--
Yousuf J. Khan & Issa S. Khan | Just because you're paranoid doesn't


Ottawa, Ont, Canada           |
Nation's capital              |

 
 
 

Team mate Destroyers: Schumi, Heinz-H, Mika H

Post by Mika M?n » Thu, 25 Apr 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> And what about Hakkinen? I don't think he destroyed Brundle
>nor Coulthard yet. Blundell is a different case. And I don't think Mika
>really destroyed Senna (that was Williams, not Hakkinen).

Well maybe he didnt actrually destroy those drivers, but at least he
was faster. And will be faster that Coulthard. What about Mansell
then... He looked  like piece of garbage when drivng Mikas team
mate... And I think he is not anything like that, or is he?

Quote:
>I wouldn't want to be in a team with the German couple but I wouldn't
>mind Mika.

Its really sad what happend to JJ Lehto while he was in same team with
Shoemaker. But i think it was also he's accident that slowed him down.
Hope he will do good work in ITC this year...

Mika Manty

 
 
 

Team mate Destroyers: Schumi, Heinz-H, Mika H

Post by Niko I J Halon » Fri, 26 Apr 1996 04:00:00

Quote:


>: It is *** to see the work of the true team-mate destroyers:
>: Schumacher, Frenzen and Hakkinen. All these three leave only "complaining
>second-rate. And what about Hakkinen? I don't think he destroyed Brundle
>nor Coulthard yet. Blundell is a different case.

What you mean? Check the facts if you don't remember them right.
How is Blundell different? Actually his results were slightly better than
Brundle's compared to Hakkinen.

Quote:
>I wouldn't want to be in a team with the German couple but I wouldn't
>mind Mika.

I'm ready an' willing for any F1 car.

Remember Hakkinen has driven with the best drivers around while Frenzen's
team mates been Herbert, Wendlinger ...
I know Herbert was even with Hakkinen in 1991-92 but they aren't the same
Herbie or Hakkinen anymore.

Quote:
>Anyway, Irvine and Herbert sure have problems again but David is settling
>now and he drover OK in Argentina. He just was out of luck that there was
>a certain Arrows (!) behind him

Yeah,yeah.
--

Ferro                 /\/\/\ Dem proctus non pasficus,

 
 
 

Team mate Destroyers: Schumi, Heinz-H, Mika H

Post by Niko I J Halon » Fri, 26 Apr 1996 04:00:00

Quote:


>Its really sad what happend to JJ Lehto while he was in same team with
>Shoemaker. But i think it was also he's accident that slowed him down.
>Hope he will do good work in ITC this year...

Let's forget the patriotism for a little time.
If Benetton year was a bad example of Lehto's F1 abilities then  what was his
good time. I think there wasn't any. Lehto is just another midclass
driver with fantastic excuses. Actually he was the worst team mate Schumi
ever had.

I'm from Finland but I have two eyes and see all the colors.

Niko

--

Ferro                 /\/\/\ Dem proctus non pasficus,

 
 
 

Team mate Destroyers: Schumi, Heinz-H, Mika H

Post by Ari Yrjo » Fri, 26 Apr 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
> Let's forget the patriotism for a little time.
> If Benetton year was a bad example of Lehto's F1 abilities then  what was his
> good time. I think there wasn't any. Lehto is just another midclass
> driver with fantastic excuses. Actually he was the worst team mate Schumi
> ever had.

I was a little surprised when browsing through the F1 statistics
and noticing that JJ Lehto had been in the points actually only 4 times
in his career (3rd at Imola'91 w/ Dallara, twice in 1993 w/ Sauber,
once w/ Benetton), while Mika H?kkinen had been on points at least 10
times before the last races of 1995. But there has been these
what-if cases, like Donington'93, which was a wet race, JJ had
qualified 7th, but the $1 start button failed in his car and he had
to start from the pit lane on spare car which was set up for
Wendlinger. Lehto seems  to be very good on wet, so it could have
been his best ever race... Doing 17 seconds faster lap times than
anybody else last year at wet Le Mans night isn't a sign of a bad driver.
 
 
 

Team mate Destroyers: Schumi, Heinz-H, Mika H

Post by Tuomo O. Vuolteenah » Sat, 27 Apr 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

> 1994, Martin Brundle had a second place finish that year,
> Hakk only had a third.

Now your're pushing the facts a bit too far. Tuomo
 
 
 

Team mate Destroyers: Schumi, Heinz-H, Mika H

Post by Markus A Pelkon » Sat, 27 Apr 1996 04:00:00

Quote:


>>It is *** to see the work of the true team-mate destroyers:
>>Schumacher, Frenzen and Hakkinen. All these three leave only "complaining
>>second-rate drivers" behind. It may not be a pleasure to be driving in
>>the same team as these gentleman. You have a great probability that there
>>won't be another season for you...
>I can understand Schumacher, but how exactly do you categorize
>Frentzen or Hakkinen as teammate destroyers?

         I wouldn't use the word destroy in this context either,
        but outperform ... overwhelmingly 8-)

Quote:
>Hakkinen teammates: 1993, Ayrton Senna was not exactly devastated by
>Hakkinen.

         True, but Hakkinen did outqualify him once which wasn't too
        common amongst Senna's teammates and Hakkinen wasn't as much
        out of Senna's pace as certain other drivers after and
        before... No, I don't think Hakkinen was up to Senna's level
        at that time in racewise (spelling,grammar) but was closing
        on speedwise.

Quote:
>1994, Martin Brundle had a second place finish that year,
>Hakk only had a third.

         So ? Fact is that Hakkinen had much more points (M. Hakkinen
        26 pts M. Brundle  16 pts) and he was _always_ (15 out of 15)
        faster in qualifying than Mr. B. Do you need more proofs ?

Quote:
>1995, Nigel Mansell, well yeah, maybe he was
>destroyed that year, but he destroyed himself. 1995, Martin Blundell,
>was a replacement driver, never expected to really do much. Never
>heard any of the teammates complain about him while they worked there
>together.

         Are you perhaps critizicing(sp?) Schumacher here ?

<Y J. K's comments about HHF deleted>

Quote:
>--
>Yousuf J. Khan & Issa S. Khan | Just because you're paranoid doesn't


>Ottawa, Ont, Canada           |
>Nation's capital              |

--
Markus Pelkonen

 
 
 

Team mate Destroyers: Schumi, Heinz-H, Mika H

Post by Graham Shevli » Sun, 28 Apr 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>>It is *** to see the work of the true team-mate destroyers:
>>Schumacher, Frenzen and Hakkinen. All these three leave only "complaining
>>second-rate drivers" behind. It may not be a pleasure to be driving in
>>the same team as these gentleman. You have a great probability that there
>>won't be another season for you...

The mistake that we observers make is in thinking that the two drivers
are team-mates. They are, in the sense that there is commonality of
the superficial items such as car, engine, sponsors etc. However, we
must realise that the top 2-car teams are really two one-car teams
which just happen to be sharing facilities for economies of scale.
Just look at Williams this season. Jacques Villeneuve has a different
dash layout and pedal box to Damon Hill, to the extent that changing
the spare car involves changing front ends and dash instruments. Both
drivers have their own engineering teams. In some teams it is apparent
that drivers hide set-up data from each other (classic case is
Schumacher at Benetton; he refused to share information with Johnny
Herbert for fear that it would eliminate his advantage).
And at the end of the line, your team-mate is the guy you want to beat
first.
Where the problems start are when resources are directed
disproportionately towards one driver. This creates a tilted playing
field against the other driver, who will lose out in terms of track
time (Schumacher did most of the testing at Benetton, to the extent
that eventually they stopped hiring a full-time test driver because
there was nothing for him to do), access to engine supplier data, and
(more damagingly in the medium term) will find the car being designed
around the #1 driver's style. This has been the fate of Schumacher's
team mates in recent years. Herbert needs a neutral car, Schumacher
likes a car with a loose back end that he can balance off against the
turn-in. The two styles are largely incompatible.
The disproportionate direction of resources can happen because of lack
of $$$ or parts (those who mock Mark Blundell should remember that for
most of 1995 he was at least 1 engine spec. behind Hakkiinen), the
presence of a #1 driver by contract (Schumacher's Ferrari contract
gives him #1 status, priority access to the spare car, first call on
development parts, etc, etc.) or (more subtly) the preference of the
team principals for one driver because they empathise more with that
driver's style and attitude. A classic example of the latter is the
Jones-Reutemann situation in 1981 at Williams, where Reutemann was
frozen out by a team dedicated to Jones (who had won the championship
in 1980). Other examples are Prost and Lauda at McLaren (Ron Dennis
apparently resenting Lauda's cost relative to Prost) and Mansell and
Prost at Ferrari (Mansell was out-maneouvered by Prost's supporters).

So next time you hear drivers talking about team mates, permit
yourself a wry smile...there ain't no such thing in a top 4 F1 team.

Graham Shevlin TISD Sunbury UK

 
 
 

Team mate Destroyers: Schumi, Heinz-H, Mika H

Post by Scott Wills » Mon, 29 Apr 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>Frentzen teammates: 1993-1994, Carl Wendlinger. Carl was the veteran
>of the team in 1993, and he definitely had the number one position
>within the team that first year (mainly due to familiarity with the
>car), it was mainly a learning year for HHF. In 1994, Carl had that
>accident and he was never again the same. JJLehto and someone else
>(Andrea somebody?) were Carl's replacements that year, and of course
>they were replacement drivers, not expected to do much. 1995, I can't
>even remember who else drove for Sauber that year; so maybe you're
>right, HHF did destroy whoever that teammate (blew him from memory
>:-)). Yet, still I heard no complaints about HHF from any teammates.

Uh... JJ Lehto was Karl Wendlinger's teammate BEFORE HH Frentzen ever was.
Lehto had an accident which hurt his neck in a preseason practice and then tried
to race for Benetton in '94 and did not fare well against Schumacher at all.

As far as I know, Frentzen has only raced for Sauber for '95 and '96.  Maybe
part of '94.

Scott


 
 
 

Team mate Destroyers: Schumi, Heinz-H, Mika H

Post by Janne Lindbe » Tue, 30 Apr 1996 04:00:00



: >Its really sad what happend to JJ Lehto while he was in same team with
: >Shoemaker. But i think it was also he's accident that slowed him down.
: >Hope he will do good work in ITC this year...

: Let's forget the patriotism for a little time.
: If Benetton year was a bad example of Lehto's F1 abilities then  what was his
: good time. I think there wasn't any. Lehto is just another midclass
: driver with fantastic excuses. Actually he was the worst team mate Schumi
: ever had.

Lehto never had any chance to drive a good car, unlike Blundell, Brundle;
Herbert, Verstappen, Irvine etc. He did a pretty good job in the ***Onyx
and Dallara cars and the first year with Sauber. Then he got injured. Anyone
remember Imola 1991?

: I'm from Finland but I have two eyes and see all the colors.

: Niko

: --

: Ferro               /\/\/\ Dem proctus non pasficus,

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