Ferrari protest Aluminium Beryllium

Ferrari protest Aluminium Beryllium

Post by Peter Scoula » Thu, 03 Sep 1998 04:00:00


  "A row is brewing behind the Fl scenes after Ferrari attempted to get
a ban imposed on the use of the *** aluminium beryllium which,
Ferrari claims, has carcogenic qualities which make it unsafe to be
handled in a racing application. It is believed that such a ban would
effectively  force Merceedes to s***its current Fl engine, which is
believed to use aluminium beryllium cylinder liners. Yet at the same
time Ferrari has been attempting to obtain exclusive supplies of
aluminium beryllium without the other Fl teams knowing, much to the
irritation of McLaren and Williams."
? Autocar 2/9/98
Regards
--
Peter   :-)  
Keep the faith

 
 
 

Ferrari protest Aluminium Beryllium

Post by Spla » Thu, 03 Sep 1998 04:00:00

If you can't beat 'em....protest 'em !

After all, the cylinder liners are exposed to all the mechanics and
spectators at every race.  I can see how much of a threat this poses to
the general public and mechanics, so....off with their (cylinder) heads
!
--
Matt Manspeaker
Penn State Aerospace Engineering (Aerodynamics)
Formula SAE constructor/driver

 
 
 

Ferrari protest Aluminium Beryllium

Post by Jan Go » Thu, 03 Sep 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

>If you can't beat 'em....protest 'em !

  Remembers me of something earlier this year... we aren't able to
develop a McLaren-like brake system in less than two months, so it
definitely has to be illegal... ;-)

   Jan

"Wait for me, I won't be long", Gilles Villeneuve

 
 
 

Ferrari protest Aluminium Beryllium

Post by Bumble Bee Boy » Thu, 03 Sep 1998 04:00:00



following...

Quote:

>>If you can't beat 'em....protest 'em !

>  Remembers me of something earlier this year... we aren't able to
>develop a McLaren-like brake system in less than two months, so it
>definitely has to be illegal... ;-)

>   Jan

>"Wait for me, I won't be long", Gilles Villeneuve

You mean the FIA banned ours so let's get McLaren's banned.

--
Bumble Bee Boy 2.00

http://www.cmcuk.demon.co.uk/wannadie/
"The best band in the world ever" - Melody Maker (about The Wannadies)

"Even though she looked sweet, my god a freak, take her away,
take her away, her lips didn't move but they said...."

 
 
 

Ferrari protest Aluminium Beryllium

Post by Romanell » Thu, 03 Sep 1998 04:00:00

Quote:
>If you can't beat 'em....protest 'em !
>After all, the cylinder liners are exposed to all the mechanics and
>spectators at every race.  I can see how much of a threat this poses to
>the general public and mechanics, so....off with their (cylinder) heads!
>Matt Manspeaker

Well, the FIA used a specious safety argument to ban the 'x-wings' earlier
this year, I don't see why the same reasoning can't be applied to engine
blocks.
 
 
 

Ferrari protest Aluminium Beryllium

Post by Jan Olderdiss » Thu, 03 Sep 1998 04:00:00

Quote:
>  "A row is brewing behind the Fl scenes after Ferrari attempted to get
>a ban imposed on the use of the *** aluminium beryllium which,
>Ferrari claims, has carcogenic qualities which make it unsafe to be
>handled in a racing application.

Looks like there is a lot of substance to this post. According to this
web site, Beryllium and its compounds are classified in the "may cause
cancer" category:

http://SportToday.org/

And AlBe is used by F1 teams already, not only McLaren. The following
web page includes a list of racing teams that use AlBe parts. It reads
like a who is who in motor sports:

http://SportToday.org/

Among them is the Ferrari F1 team. From the same web site:

"For the 1997 F1 Season, Brembo has again introduced a significant
improvement to the braking system to reduce weight and improve braking
performance and stability.
The advance is both in material and caliper design.
Aluminium Beryllium (AlBe) is being used to make all new Brembo F1
calipers for 1997. This breakthrough in technology has been pioneered
by Brembo and Brembo is first company in the world to make racing
brake calipers from this aerospace material.
The material has the strength of titanium combined with the weight of
magnesium and while the material is currently too expensive to have a
wide range of applications the material is highly suited to brake
caliper design.
The caliper offers a saving of 0,5 Kg un-sprung weight per wheel (2 Kg
per car) plus a 25% increase in caliper stiffness over the 1996 MMC
calipers. "

Sounds like the teams are playing a pretty dangerous game. But when
you consider the risk of participants getting killed by "standard"
accidents, a little risk of cancer probably doesn't really matter. :-(

Jan

 
 
 

Ferrari protest Aluminium Beryllium

Post by Rui Pedro Mendes Salguei » Fri, 04 Sep 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> And AlBe is used by F1 teams already,

AlBe WAS used in brake calipers in 1997.

Quote:
> http://www.brembo.it/racing97.htm
                             ^^
> "For the 1997 F1 Season, Brembo has again introduced a significant
> improvement to the braking system to reduce weight and improve braking
> performance and stability.
> The advance is both in material and caliper design.
> Aluminium Beryllium (AlBe) is being used to make all new Brembo F1
> calipers for 1997.

Aluminium Beryllium calipers were outlawed in F1 at the end of last
season, mostly because of cost reasons. CART still uses them.

--
http://www.mat.uc.pt/~rps/f1/  an ex-tifoso since 95/11/13

.pt is Portugal| `Whom the gods love die young'-Menander (342-292 BC)
        Europe |    Villeneuve 50-82, Toivonen 56-86, Senna 60-94

 
 
 

Ferrari protest Aluminium Beryllium

Post by Vicente Mun » Fri, 04 Sep 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

>Looks like there is a lot of substance to this post. According to this
>web site, Beryllium and its compounds are classified in the "may cause
>cancer" category:

>http://www.lancs.ac.uk/users/safety/section.3/

        Beryllium dust causes a well studied respiratory ailment called
"beryliosis" which is similar to the silicosis caused by silica dust.
This is dangerous only in dust form so special care is taken when Bery-
llium is machined or worked upon.  In solid form the danger to people is
negligible.  So the machine tool operators at Brembo and Mercedes are
the ones who are at any risk of having problems.  For the general public
and the F1 crew and mechanics I think that the risks are almost non-exis-
tent.  It sounds more politics than science to me.

        Cheers

--
VICENTE MUNNE
Materials Science and Engineering Department
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332

 
 
 

Ferrari protest Aluminium Beryllium

Post by MtnsVi » Sat, 05 Sep 1998 04:00:00

Last time I checked, most of the components of any type of plausible fuel for
F1 were carcinogenic.  So are we to ban fuel too?
 
 
 

Ferrari protest Aluminium Beryllium

Post by John Gibso » Sat, 05 Sep 1998 04:00:00

Decpetive lot are Ferrari.  Maybe the aluminium beryllium was trying to
kill MS too, eh?

JOHN

 
 
 

Ferrari protest Aluminium Beryllium

Post by ric.. » Sat, 05 Sep 1998 04:00:00



Quote:
> If you can't beat 'em....protest 'em !

If it works, run with it!

If whatever being protested is totally above board, what's there to worry
about?

Quote:
> After all, the cylinder liners are exposed to all the mechanics and
> spectators at every race.  I can see how much of a threat this poses to
> the general public and mechanics, so....off with their (cylinder) heads>!

  If there is a lubrication problem, then the liners are exposed to the
atmosphere, more specifically the material worn off of the liner by the
piston/rings and passed through the exhaust.  Which is much more dangerous
than having a block of it for a coffee table.

Rich

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp   Create Your Own Free Member Forum

 
 
 

Ferrari protest Aluminium Beryllium

Post by snailma.. » Sun, 06 Sep 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

>   "A row is brewing behind the Fl scenes after Ferrari attempted to get
> a ban imposed on the use of the *** aluminium beryllium which,
> Ferrari claims, has carcogenic qualities which make it unsafe to be
> handled in a racing application. It is believed that such a ban would
> effectively  force Merceedes to s***its current Fl engine, which is
> believed to use aluminium beryllium cylinder liners. Yet at the same
> time Ferrari has been attempting to obtain exclusive supplies of
> aluminium beryllium without the other Fl teams knowing, much to the
> irritation of McLaren and Williams."
> ? Autocar 2/9/98
> Regards
> --
> Peter   :-)

What a pack of wimps. Carcogenic qualities. God everyone knows cancer is self
inflicted. Just say no. No to *** - no to tobacco. If it was harmful they
would not let you use it. They would not let the cars and drivers carry
banners promoting its use.

Snail

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://SportToday.org/; Create Your Own Free Member Forum

 
 
 

Ferrari protest Aluminium Beryllium

Post by Jacques Stein » Sun, 06 Sep 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

>  "A row is brewing behind the Fl scenes after Ferrari attempted to get
>a ban imposed on the use of the *** aluminium beryllium

I should have posted on this some days ago, but I'm lazy and was hoping
that someone else would do my dirty work.

The August/Spetember issue of Race Tech includes excerpts from an interview
with Max Mosley:

'Mosley dismissed rumours that the FIA was going to ban the use of
beryllium or other *** materials in the interest of curtailing engine
development costs.'

Quote:
>which,
>Ferrari claims, has carcogenic qualities which make it unsafe to be
>handled in a racing application.

'Some Formula One engine designers have expressed concerns at the cost of
this technology. However, Mosley says that there is no plan to ban such
parts provided that the FIA is satisfied that they pose no health risk.

'"Our attitude is that when it comes to machining beryllium, then that is
an industrial problem. Allegedly it is a second degree carcinogen, which is
about the same as mahogany. What we're concerned about is whether there is
any danger in use and we're looking into that at the moment. My view is
that provided there is no health hazard in use then let them do it."'

Quote:
>It is believed that such a ban would
>effectively  force Merceedes to s***its current Fl engine, which is
>believed to use aluminium beryllium cylinder liners.

'McLaren, of course, uses the Ilmor made Mercedes engine, one of the
leaders in today's power race. As we reported earlier this year, currently
under development for this race are aluminium/beryllium cylinder liners,
pistons, and con rods, which will help make engines smaller, lighter, and
faster running.'

Later:

'This will come as welcome news to McLaren and Mercedes. Questioned by Race
Tech, Mercedes Motorsport boss Norbert Haug declined to confirm or deny
that the Ilmor engine now deploys beryllium. However, he made it clear that
he was not at all concerned at the cost implications of such material. "We
can afford what it takes to win. We get back more than we are investing."'

Given the below, one wonders if FIAT might not be in the same enviable
position, or if Ferrari is simply behind in its engine technology. Or . . .

Above quotes ? 1998 Race Tech (August/September 1998, page 5).

Quote:
>Yet at the same
>time Ferrari has been attempting to obtain exclusive supplies of
>aluminium beryllium without the other Fl teams knowing, much to the
>irritation of McLaren and Williams."
>? Autocar 2/9/98

. . . is Ferrari generally concerned about the risks? I gather that Ferrari
claims that there is a danger "in use" from the wear inside an engine. How
aluminum/beryllium compares as a health hazard to beryllium alone, I don't
know. I thought the point of using the high aluminum content alloy was
mostly to _avoid_ the hazards of plain beryllium. Anyone have more data?

Jacques Steiner

Remove the .bs before replying. Supprimez ?.bs? avant de rpondre.
National racing colors, etc. http://SportToday.org/
Eric Tabarly (1932-1998) RIP

 
 
 

Ferrari protest Aluminium Beryllium

Post by Jacques Stein » Sun, 06 Sep 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
>Aluminium Beryllium calipers were outlawed in F1 at the end of last
>season, mostly because of cost reasons. CART still uses them.

More from the Mosley interview in Race Tech:

'Indeed, he now says that it was a mistake to ban aluminium/beryllium brake
calipers for this season.

'"It was done with the best of intentions because they were using
aluminium/beryllium to get very, very high caliper rigidity and with that
improved stopping power. We said, the cars brake too efficiently already
and these things cost 6000 each, which is a complete waste of money, so
let's have cheap caliper again.

'"Then they started to make calipers out of aluminium/lithium and calipers
which had four attachment bolts rather than two, relying on the rigidity of
the uprights. We said, 'you can't do that'. So they put dowels in. Again,
we said, 'you can't do that'. They replied, 'Ah, but we did it in 1981 on
something or other . . .'

'"It has been a tedious argument, really for nothing. It is outrageous that
they spend 24,000 on a set of brake calipers but if they don't spend it on
that, they spend it on tiling the pits garage, so what is the difference!"'

Later:

'"I was completely in favour of the aluminium/beryllium brake caliper ban
but with hindsight I believe it was a mistake."'

Above excerpts ?1998 Race Tech (August/September 1998, page 5).

Jacques Steiner

Remove the .bs before replying. Supprimez ?.bs? avant de rpondre.
National racing colors, etc. http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/8750/
Eric Tabarly (1932-1998) RIP