CART GP of Long Beach Makes F1 Look Pretty Lame

CART GP of Long Beach Makes F1 Look Pretty Lame

Post by TRUSRS » Tue, 18 Apr 2000 04:00:00


Quote:

>Makes F1 look like a joke by comparison - superb filmwork, much more
>sensation of
>speed, pit-to-driver radio broadcasts, in-car cameras from all the cars,
>more passing in one race than in the last 2 years of F1, cars going thru
>corners 3 a***, the winner starting the race 17th on the grid -WOW!

>No wonder Bernie had to ban CART from any non-oval tracks outside the US -
>F1 would have gone down like lead balloon with that sort of competition.

>Sky

You are so right!
CART rulez!
simply amazing!
 
 
 

CART GP of Long Beach Makes F1 Look Pretty Lame

Post by Chris Buchhol » Tue, 18 Apr 2000 04:00:00

It's not the drivers that rule, it's the tv coverage.

Cart coverage concentrates much more on passing even if it is way back down
the field, anything that provides action and e***ment, not just constantly
watching the front driver hit the perfect line. Maybe that is fun for some
people, but I think the average fan wants to see e***ment, and F1 coverage
just doesn't provide that.

That's the only thing I don't like about F1, the coverage practically puts
you to sleep. If they showed more of the action, even if it's a pass for
15th, I'd rather see a pass for 15th than nothng at all but Mika H. or Mike
S. over and over just driving with no competition anywhere around. That's
what I expect when I watch practice & qualifying sessions, not when I watch
the race.

Who knows, this may be a cultural thing. I think it has been insinuated
often enough that it's just us uncultured Americans who like passing and
action and e***ment, while the refined Europeans wouldn't possibly like
such excitment in F1, they only want to see their favorite driver hit that
perfect line.

Well our friends in Europe, is that true? Do you really not like passing? I
am being somewhat serious, if there really is a cultural difference in what
we want when we watch racing, or if it's just the higher-ups that forget not
everyone is a racer and can appreciate watching a perfect drive.

Chris B
***
The coverage at Long Beach this weekend was great. Hopefully, the US Grand
Prix coverage will be good, maybe then they'll concentrate more on the
public coverage instead of their little pay per view thing. (The Chicago
Blackhawks tried a similiar tactic, they went totally to their own channel,
and their huge fan base of the 70's / early 80's just evaporated).


Quote:

> >Makes F1 look like a joke by comparison - superb filmwork, much more
> >sensation of
> >speed, pit-to-driver radio broadcasts, in-car cameras from all the cars,
> >more passing in one race than in the last 2 years of F1, cars going thru
> >corners 3 a***, the winner starting the race 17th on the grid -WOW!

> >No wonder Bernie had to ban CART from any non-oval tracks outside the
US -
> >F1 would have gone down like lead balloon with that sort of competition.

> >Sky


 
 
 

CART GP of Long Beach Makes F1 Look Pretty Lame

Post by Prefect Bein » Tue, 18 Apr 2000 04:00:00

On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 08:59:26 -0500, "Chris Buchholz"

Quote:

>It's not the drivers that rule, it's the tv coverage.

>Cart coverage concentrates much more on passing even if it is way back down
>the field, anything that provides action and e***ment, not just constantly
>watching the front driver hit the perfect line. Maybe that is fun for some
>people, but I think the average fan wants to see e***ment, and F1 coverage
>just doesn't provide that.

>That's the only thing I don't like about F1, the coverage practically puts
>you to sleep. If they showed more of the action, even if it's a pass for
>15th, I'd rather see a pass for 15th than nothng at all but Mika H. or Mike
>S. over and over just driving with no competition anywhere around. That's
>what I expect when I watch practice & qualifying sessions, not when I watch
>the race.

>Who knows, this may be a cultural thing. I think it has been insinuated
>often enough that it's just us uncultured Americans who like passing and
>action and e***ment, while the refined Europeans wouldn't possibly like
>such excitment in F1, they only want to see their favorite driver hit that
>perfect line.

>Well our friends in Europe, is that true? Do you really not like passing? I
>am being somewhat serious, if there really is a cultural difference in what
>we want when we watch racing, or if it's just the higher-ups that forget not
>everyone is a racer and can appreciate watching a perfect drive.

Kind of. I think the way to put it would be that Europeans perhaps
prefer the drama of not knowing what's going to happen, where
Americans perhaps just want to see it happen. Problem with F1 at the
moment is that you know almost certainly no one will pass for the
lead, even if the guy behind closes right up. I can think of numerous
occasions when Mansell would charge up to the leader and try to find a
way by (usually Senna actually). Sometimes he made it, other times he
didn't. If you watch F1 regularly you just get to know it won't happen
now.

You're right about TV coverage though.

Joe

 
 
 

CART GP of Long Beach Makes F1 Look Pretty Lame

Post by Dale in Salt Lak » Tue, 18 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Well now, the tough thing about comparisons like this is that
even though they look very similar, the two series are like
apples and oranges.  These tirades against one formula or
another really don't go anywhere as they are all based on
personal opinion.  What is better; apples or oranges?  I've seen
great F1 races and I've seen great CART races; why can't they
co-exist as entertainment?  I've turned off just as many boring
F1 races as I have boring CART races.  At the same time, people
racing street cars in a parking lot with the local SCCA is
pretty damn exciting too.  Its entertainment.  Put a little
distance between yourself and the sport and enjoy what you can
on your own terms.

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

 
 
 

CART GP of Long Beach Makes F1 Look Pretty Lame

Post by Chris Help » Tue, 18 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Do they have Pay-per-view F1 coverage in the US?

Sky


Quote:
> It's not the drivers that rule, it's the tv coverage.

> Cart coverage concentrates much more on passing even if it is way back
down
> the field, anything that provides action and e***ment, not just
constantly
> watching the front driver hit the perfect line. Maybe that is fun for some
> people, but I think the average fan wants to see e***ment, and F1
coverage
> just doesn't provide that.

> That's the only thing I don't like about F1, the coverage practically puts
> you to sleep. If they showed more of the action, even if it's a pass for
> 15th, I'd rather see a pass for 15th than nothng at all but Mika H. or
Mike
> S. over and over just driving with no competition anywhere around. That's
> what I expect when I watch practice & qualifying sessions, not when I
watch
> the race.

> Who knows, this may be a cultural thing. I think it has been insinuated
> often enough that it's just us uncultured Americans who like passing and
> action and e***ment, while the refined Europeans wouldn't possibly like
> such excitment in F1, they only want to see their favorite driver hit that
> perfect line.

> Well our friends in Europe, is that true? Do you really not like passing?
I
> am being somewhat serious, if there really is a cultural difference in
what
> we want when we watch racing, or if it's just the higher-ups that forget
not
> everyone is a racer and can appreciate watching a perfect drive.

> Chris B
> ***
> The coverage at Long Beach this weekend was great. Hopefully, the US Grand
> Prix coverage will be good, maybe then they'll concentrate more on the
> public coverage instead of their little pay per view thing. (The Chicago
> Blackhawks tried a similiar tactic, they went totally to their own
channel,
> and their huge fan base of the 70's / early 80's just evaporated).



> > >Makes F1 look like a joke by comparison - superb filmwork, much more
> > >sensation of
> > >speed, pit-to-driver radio broadcasts, in-car cameras from all the
cars,
> > >more passing in one race than in the last 2 years of F1, cars going
thru
> > >corners 3 a***, the winner starting the race 17th on the grid -WOW!

> > >No wonder Bernie had to ban CART from any non-oval tracks outside the
> US -
> > >F1 would have gone down like lead balloon with that sort of
competition.

> > >Sky

 
 
 

CART GP of Long Beach Makes F1 Look Pretty Lame

Post by Chris Help » Tue, 18 Apr 2000 04:00:00

My point in making this post (which I didn't express clearly) was not a
"CART is better than F1" thing, but to emphasize the negative consequences
of the FIA's stubborn and stupid unwillingness to deal with the problem.

F1 could do a lot worse than to follow CART's example, and develop a set of
similar technology rules (weaker brakes, smaller wings, bigger, more durable
non-grooved tires, more powerful engines) which would permit closer racing,
and - gasp - overtaking for the lead outside the passing lane, err pitlane.

Sky



Quote:
> Well now, the tough thing about comparisons like this is that
> even though they look very similar, the two series are like
> apples and oranges.  These tirades against one formula or
> another really don't go anywhere as they are all based on
> personal opinion.  What is better; apples or oranges?  I've seen
> great F1 races and I've seen great CART races; why can't they
> co-exist as entertainment?  I've turned off just as many boring
> F1 races as I have boring CART races.  At the same time, people
> racing street cars in a parking lot with the local SCCA is
> pretty damn exciting too.  Its entertainment.  Put a little
> distance between yourself and the sport and enjoy what you can
> on your own terms.

> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network
*
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

 
 
 

CART GP of Long Beach Makes F1 Look Pretty Lame

Post by Barry Posne » Tue, 18 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Quote:

> F1 could do a lot worse than to follow CART's example, and develop a set of
> similar technology rules (weaker brakes, smaller wings, bigger, more durable
> non-grooved tires, more powerful engines) which would permit closer racing,
> and - gasp - overtaking for the lead outside the passing lane, err pitlane.

As somebody who enjoys F1 *and* CART for what they are, let me say that
I don't think this is what F1 is about, at all.

The goal of F1 isn't to provide entertainment. It's a venue of
competition for designers and strategists just as much as it is for
drivers. It just happens to have billions of fans, but that doesn't mean
the game should be dumbed down to placate them.

bp

 
 
 

CART GP of Long Beach Makes F1 Look Pretty Lame

Post by Frank H » Tue, 18 Apr 2000 04:00:00


Quote:
>It's not the drivers that rule, it's the tv coverage.

>Cart coverage concentrates much more on passing even if it is way back down
>the field, anything that provides action and e***ment, not just
constantly
>watching the front driver hit the perfect line. Maybe that is fun for some
>people, but I think the average fan wants to see e***ment, and F1
coverage
>just doesn't provide that.

True.

Quote:

>That's the only thing I don't like about F1, the coverage practically puts
>you to sleep. If they showed more of the action, even if it's a pass for
>15th, I'd rather see a pass for 15th than nothng at all but Mika H. or Mike
>S. over and over just driving with no competition anywhere around. That's
>what I expect when I watch practice & qualifying sessions, not when I watch
>the race.

True again.

Quote:
>Who knows, this may be a cultural thing. I think it has been insinuated
>often enough that it's just us uncultured Americans who like passing and
>action and e***ment, while the refined Europeans wouldn't possibly like
>such excitment in F1, they only want to see their favorite driver hit that
>perfect line.

>Well our friends in Europe, is that true? Do you really not like passing?

Nope. I agree with you completely. I'm from the Netherlands (can I say this
without being hammered down?? Then again I'm no Jos the boss kind of
mailer...) and I want to see the action too. I want to see the overtaking,
the on-board views, etc. What I like about Cart is the lack of aerodynamics,
they can really creep into each other, even in the corners, whereas in
current F1 you cannot get too close without losing grip.

Frank

 
 
 

CART GP of Long Beach Makes F1 Look Pretty Lame

Post by Harr » Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:00:00

Whether it's F1 or CART, I want to see them race and in my view F1 has
much less racing than CART. It would be better if F1 adopted some of
the things which make CART more exciting to watch - more enjoyment for
all. I think F1 Imola and CART Los Angeles say it all. An ocean
between.
Harry



Quote:
> Well now, the tough thing about comparisons like this is that
> even though they look very similar, the two series are like
> apples and oranges.  These tirades against one formula or
> another really don't go anywhere as they are all based on
> personal opinion.  What is better; apples or oranges?  I've seen
> great F1 races and I've seen great CART races; why can't they
> co-exist as entertainment?  I've turned off just as many boring
> F1 races as I have boring CART races.  At the same time, people
> racing street cars in a parking lot with the local SCCA is
> pretty damn exciting too.  Its entertainment.  Put a little
> distance between yourself and the sport and enjoy what you can
> on your own terms.

> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion
Network *
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet -
Free!

 
 
 

CART GP of Long Beach Makes F1 Look Pretty Lame

Post by chevino.. » Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:00:00



Quote:
> Whether it's F1 or CART, I want to see them race and in my view F1 has
> much less racing than CART. It would be better if F1 adopted some of
> the things which make CART more exciting to watch - more enjoyment for
> all. I think F1 Imola and CART Los Angeles say it all. An ocean
> between.
> Harry

Yes, Michael and Paul even managed contact in the pit lane too*LOL*  It
was a good race though, and I had to be impressed with Fittipaldi's team
manager. He read the signs to a T and he had Christian out of the car in
good time.  Very good that.  Best wishes, chevin

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

 
 
 

CART GP of Long Beach Makes F1 Look Pretty Lame

Post by John Wallac » Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:00:00

On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 08:59:26 -0500, "Chris Buchholz"

Quote:

>I'd rather see a pass for 15th than nothng at all but Mika H. or Mike
>S. over and over just driving with no competition anywhere around. That's
>what I expect when I watch practice & qualifying sessions, not when I watch
>the race.
>Who knows, this may be a cultural thing. I think it has been insinuated
>often enough that it's just us uncultured Americans who like passing and
>action and e***ment, while the refined Europeans wouldn't possibly like
>such excitment in F1, they only want to see their favorite driver hit that
>perfect line.

I don't think it's cultural, although that may be a small part of it.
Primarily I think that "West" (for example) have paid a lot of money
to have their name waltzing round at the front and therefore on TV as
much as possible - the thinking being they wouldn't be too happy with
a Minardi on TV for passing in 15th place.

OTOH maybe that would have a beneficial effect - sponsors would start
putting money toward drivers who perform feats worthy of being on TV.
I can see Jacques and Jean getting more than their share of
sponsorship money in that case, or even sponsors encouraging drivers
to pass so they can be on TV!

Maybe a good idea...?! :-)

Cheers!
John

 
 
 

CART GP of Long Beach Makes F1 Look Pretty Lame

Post by The Pant » Wed, 19 Apr 2000 04:00:00


Quote:



> >> F1 could do a lot worse than to follow CART's example, and develop a
set of
> >> similar technology rules (weaker brakes, smaller wings, bigger, more
durable
> >> non-grooved tires, more powerful engines) which would permit closer
racing,
> >> and - gasp - overtaking for the lead outside the passing lane, err
pitlane.

> >As somebody who enjoys F1 *and* CART for what they are, let me say that
> >I don't think this is what F1 is about, at all.

> YES!!! If I want to watch F1, I'll watch F1. If I want to watch CART,
> I'll watch CART. If either one was turned into a clone of the other,
> why bother to watch both?

I agree that F1 and CART should remain fundamentally different from one
another.  I just don't think that the inability of a car to follow the one
ahead closely is what should distinguish F1 from CART.

The Pants

"D, world destruction
O-ver an overture
N, do I need
Apostrophe T, need this torture?"
    - TMBG

 
 
 

CART GP of Long Beach Makes F1 Look Pretty Lame

Post by Sky » Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:00:00

F1 has a set of rules which artificially restrict the performace of the
cars. CART has a set of rules which artificially restrict the performance of
the cars.

It just so happens that CART's restrictions produce better racing. The near
impossibility of passing in F1 is not just bad entertainment, it is bad
racing. It is a farce when race results are determined by qualifying,
pitstops and mechanical problems.

Ever notice how much the drivers complain about the passing problem? Do you
think their primary concern is entetaining the audience?

Sky


Quote:


> > F1 could do a lot worse than to follow CART's example, and develop a set
of
> > similar technology rules (weaker brakes, smaller wings, bigger, more
durable
> > non-grooved tires, more powerful engines) which would permit closer
racing,
> > and - gasp - overtaking for the lead outside the passing lane, err
pitlane.

> As somebody who enjoys F1 *and* CART for what they are, let me say that
> I don't think this is what F1 is about, at all.

> The goal of F1 isn't to provide entertainment. It's a venue of
> competition for designers and strategists just as much as it is for
> drivers. It just happens to have billions of fans, but that doesn't mean
> the game should be dumbed down to placate them.

> bp