Vettel Webber again

Vettel Webber again

Post by AC » Mon, 01 Apr 2013 23:43:14


http://adamcooperf1.com/2013/03/29/christian-horner-on-vettel-he-prob...

As I understand it, Vettel's deliberate strategy, presumably with the
consent of the team, was to ensure he had new tyres for the end of the
race. Presumably it was intended that he use those new tyres, not waste
them. This strategy every one knew would place him behind Webber... with
new racey tyres.

Correct?

So, what on earth was the point of that, if he was never going to be
able to use them? Why compromise the early race if you cant use the
advantage gained for the end of the race?

Is it not reasonable that Vettel accepted that strategy believing he
would get to reap the rewards of the new tyres at the end to correct the
early compromise? In other words, he would have expected to be allowed
to pass Webber, or at least try. Other wise, what were the new tyres for?

What changed and why?

--
AC

 
 
 

Vettel Webber again

Post by Noj » Tue, 02 Apr 2013 00:41:45

AC wrote ...

Quote:

> http://adamcooperf1.com/2013/03/29/christian-horner-on-vettel-he-prob...

> As I understand it, Vettel's deliberate strategy, presumably with the
> consent of the team, was to ensure he had new tyres for the end of the
> race. Presumably it was intended that he use those new tyres, not waste
> them. This strategy every one knew would place him behind Webber... with
> new racey tyres.

> Correct?

> So, what on earth was the point of that, if he was never going to be
> able to use them? Why compromise the early race if you cant use the
> advantage gained for the end of the race?

> Is it not reasonable that Vettel accepted that strategy believing he
> would get to reap the rewards of the new tyres at the end to correct the
> early compromise? In other words, he would have expected to be allowed
> to pass Webber, or at least try. Other wise, what were the new tyres for?

> What changed and why?

For a start, he wasn't behind Fred, Kimi or LH at the end of the race,
which I'd have expected RB to have planned their tyre strategy around.

 
 
 

Vettel Webber again

Post by a425coupl » Tue, 02 Apr 2013 01:07:34

Quote:

> http://adamcooperf1.com/2013/03/29/christian-horner-on-vettel-he-prob...

> As I understand it, Vettel's deliberate strategy, presumably with the
> consent of the team, was to ensure he had new tyres for the end of the
> race. Presumably it was intended that he use those new tyres, not waste
> them. This strategy every one knew would place him behind Webber... with
> new racey tyres.

> Correct?

I could be wrong (or reading info incorrectly),
but, I do not think that is correct.
Looking at the lap chat, at:
http://www.fia.com/championship/fia-formula-1-world-championship/2013...
It looks to me, that Vettel, ( then in 2nd place to Webber)
pitted for new tires on lap 42.
Then, the next lap Webber pitted on lap 43 and came out still
in the lead (barely!).
So that would indicate that for the final stint Webber
had the fresher tires.
Quote:
> So, what on earth was the point of that, if he was never going to be able
> to use them? Why compromise the early race if you cant use the advantage
> gained for the end of the race?

> Is it not reasonable that Vettel accepted that strategy believing he would
> get to reap the rewards of the new tyres at the end to correct the early
> compromise? In other words, he would have expected to be allowed to pass
> Webber, or at least try. Other wise, what were the new tyres for?

> What changed and why?

> --
> AC


 
 
 

Vettel Webber again

Post by Bobste » Tue, 02 Apr 2013 02:00:11


Quote:
> http://adamcooperf1.com/2013/03/29/christian-horner-on-vettel-he-prob...

> As I understand it, Vettel's deliberate strategy, presumably with the
> consent of the team, was to ensure he had new tyres for the end of the
> race. Presumably it was intended that he use those new tyres, not waste
> them. This strategy every one knew would place him behind Webber... with
> new racey tyres.

> Correct?

> So, what on earth was the point of that, if he was never going to be
> able to use them? Why compromise the early race if you cant use the
> advantage gained for the end of the race?

1) His early first stop compromised him. He did well to come back from
that.
2) It probably was calculated to get him ahead of Webber, but not
GUARANTEED. As it turned out it NEARLY worked. Seb got lucky with a
very good pit stop and with the timing of the Merc pit stops which
meant that he came out into clean air and could put the hammer down.
He must have monstered a lap or two elsewhere as he made up 4 seconds
in 4 or 5 laps.

We don't know if the strategies were entirely worked out at the start.
The wild card was going to be how fast the track dried. As it was
Webber got the faster tyre for the penultimate stint, so if the idea
was to give Seb a faster car at the end the plan also gave him a
disadvantage in the preceding stint.

I think a key factor here may be that Vettel saved an extra set of
options.

According to Pitpass the tyre strategies were
Vettel IN        MN      HN      HN      MN
Webber IN        HN      MN      HN      HN

So in the race Webber ran three sets of new hards and one new medium,
Vettel ran two new mediums and two new hards. Vettel had the extra set
banked.

BUT if the deal was that whoever had the lead after the final pit
stops then that was Webber. JUST.

So it looks odd actually. If Vettel knew about the deal then why save
the quick tyres for the end when he'd have little time to take
advantage of them?

 
 
 

Vettel Webber again

Post by Yuhler » Tue, 02 Apr 2013 07:36:18


Quote:
> I could be wrong (or reading info incorrectly),
> but, I do not think that is correct.
> Looking at the lap chat, at:
> http://www.fia.com/championship/fia-formula-1-world-championship/2013...
> It looks to me, that Vettel, ( then in 2nd place to Webber)
> pitted for new tires on lap 42.
> Then, the next lap Webber pitted on lap 43 and came out still
> in the lead (barely!).
> So that would indicate that for the final stint Webber
> had the fresher tires.

Indeed, but Vettel had options and Webber had primes. That made the difference
after all.

Vettel gained this advantage from the qualify section where he didn't had to
use at least one set of option tires. In fact he had two brand new extra sets
of tires, one prime and the other option.

--
Best,
Yuhler G.

Please, reply preferably to the list.
Reply-To: yuhler at gmail dot com
Due to spam I'm filtering-out GoogleGroups. Sorry. :(

 
 
 

Vettel Webber again

Post by ~misfit » Wed, 03 Apr 2013 13:57:46


Quote:

>> http://adamcooperf1.com/2013/03/29/christian-horner-on-vettel-he-prob...

>> As I understand it, Vettel's deliberate strategy, presumably with the
>> consent of the team, was to ensure he had new tyres for the end of
>> the race. Presumably it was intended that he use those new tyres,
>> not waste them. This strategy every one knew would place him behind
>> Webber... with new racey tyres.

>> Correct?

>> So, what on earth was the point of that, if he was never going to be
>> able to use them? Why compromise the early race if you cant use the
>> advantage gained for the end of the race?

> 1) His early first stop compromised him. He did well to come back from
> that.
> 2) It probably was calculated to get him ahead of Webber, but not
> GUARANTEED. As it turned out it NEARLY worked. Seb got lucky with a
> very good pit stop and with the timing of the Merc pit stops which
> meant that he came out into clean air and could put the hammer down.
> He must have monstered a lap or two elsewhere as he made up 4 seconds
> in 4 or 5 laps.

> We don't know if the strategies were entirely worked out at the start.
> The wild card was going to be how fast the track dried. As it was
> Webber got the faster tyre for the penultimate stint, so if the idea
> was to give Seb a faster car at the end the plan also gave him a
> disadvantage in the preceding stint.

> I think a key factor here may be that Vettel saved an extra set of
> options.

> According to Pitpass the tyre strategies were
> Vettel IN MN HN HN MN
> Webber IN HN MN HN HN

> So in the race Webber ran three sets of new hards and one new medium,
> Vettel ran two new mediums and two new hards. Vettel had the extra set
> banked.

> BUT if the deal was that whoever had the lead after the final pit
> stops then that was Webber. JUST.

> So it looks odd actually. If Vettel knew about the deal then why save
> the quick tyres for the end when he'd have little time to take
> advantage of them?

Because there might well have been other teams and drivers to contend with
and he fancied his chances with a light car and the 'best' tyres?

He wasn't to know that MWs team had messed up and let him race. ;)
--
/Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
cozy little classification in the DSM."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)

 
 
 

Vettel Webber again

Post by Bobste » Wed, 03 Apr 2013 14:09:30


Quote:

<snip>
> > So it looks odd actually. If Vettel knew about the deal then why save
> > the quick tyres for the end when he'd have little time to take
> > advantage of them?

> Because there might well have been other teams and drivers to contend with
> and he fancied his chances with a light car and the 'best' tyres?

Yes. All my reading between the lines erred in assuming that RBR were
anticipating a 1-2, or at least both cars running together. Usually
Seb can rely on Webber to drop several places at the start.

By the time the strategies were playing out it was clear that both
RBRs were going to finish at or near the front. Maybe Seb was still
wary of the Mercs.