Sport Today

by **Sven =8^** » Wed, 03 Mar 1999 04:00:00

[from sid]

Since basketball legend Michael Jordan resigned, Michael Schumacher
is now the highest paid athlete in the world.

The following list is in million DM. Current exchange rate is 1.8
for the Dollar, 2.85 for the Pound Sterling.

Michael Schumacher 100 (75 salary, 15 pers. sponsors, 10 merchandise)
Jacques Villeneuve 22 (16 s ,6 ps)
Mika Hakkinen 15 (10,5)
Damon Hill 14 (8,6)
Alex Zanardi 13 (10,3)
Eddie Irvine 10 (8,2)
Ralf Schumacher 8 (6,2)
David Coulthard 7 (6,1)
Jean Alesi 6 (4,2)
HH Frentzen 4 (3,1)

Personally, I think the list is a pretty good reflection of driver
strength. And I don't think Schumi is overpaid.

Zanardi's salary might seem a bit high, but he turned down a 12M $
CART offer in favor of Williams' 6M $.
I wonder, is he an "adverti***t star" in the US, or elsewhere?

Alesi, Frentzen and the Benetton drivers (how much do they get?)
seem like a bargain.

Sven.
--
...and that is how we know the Earth is banana-shaped.

by **Roel Hob** » Wed, 03 Mar 1999 04:00:00

On 2 Mar 1999, it was written:

Quote:

> [from sid]

> Since basketball legend Michael Jordan resigned, Michael Schumacher
> is now the highest paid athlete in the world.

> The following list is in million DM. Current exchange rate is 1.8
> for the Dollar, 2.85 for the Pound Sterling.

> Michael Schumacher 100 (75 salary, 15 pers. sponsors, 10 merchandise)
> Jacques Villeneuve 22 (16 s ,6 ps)
> Mika Hakkinen 15 (10,5)
> Damon Hill 14 (8,6)
> Alex Zanardi 13 (10,3)
> Eddie Irvine 10 (8,2)
> Ralf Schumacher 8 (6,2)
> David Coulthard 7 (6,1)
> Jean Alesi 6 (4,2)
> HH Frentzen 4 (3,1)

> Personally, I think the list is a pretty good reflection of driver
> strength. And I don't think Schumi is overpaid.

I do think Schumacher is overpaid. He did not return a championship for
that money and Hakkinen did, Hill has pushed Jordan to where they are now
and is worth his money.

Quote:

> Zanardi's salary might seem a bit high, but he turned down a 12M $
> CART offer in favor of Williams' 6M $.
> I wonder, is he an "adverti***t star" in the US, or elsewhere?

He is two times CART champion.

Quote:

> Alesi, Frentzen and the Benetton drivers (how much do they get?)
> seem like a bargain.

Sauber don't have a budget to pay Alesi such a salary as The McBoys.
The Benneton drivers are still young and in daily life you earn more when
you're more expierenced and older than when you were younger.

Roel

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> Sven.
> --
> ...and that is how we know the Earth is banana-shaped.

by **Bartus Garoulaiti** » Wed, 03 Mar 1999 04:00:00

where is the sig with the glowing ***s???

It was the first real good one after the Florence thing

Bartus(who has a new sig every day ;-)

by **Sven =8^** » Wed, 03 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

> > The following list is in million DM. Current exchange rate is 1.8
> > for the Dollar, 2.85 for the Pound Sterling.

> > Michael Schumacher 100 (75 salary, 15 pers. sponsors, 10 merchandise)
> > Jacques Villeneuve 22 (16 s ,6 ps)
> > Mika Hakkinen 15 (10,5)
> > Damon Hill 14 (8,6)
> > Alex Zanardi 13 (10,3)
> I do think Schumacher is overpaid. He did not return a championship for
> that money and Hakkinen did,

Championships aren't important. They might be influential to his
PR value, but IMHO they don't say much about a driver's talent
(yes, I know. It isn't a popular opinion).

Here's why I think MS is worth the money.

Both Ferrari and McLaren operate in the 300M DM area each year.
Their cars and engines are highly developed wonders of
engineering workmanship. In fact they are so highly developed
that to gain just a fraction of a second would require to
research some *** alloys, or to do some real fancy
aerodynamics tricks. It's incredibly expensive for them to
further improve just a tiny little bit.

In comes Michael Schumacher. Just by miracle, my cars is .3 to
.5s faster, and as a bonus, my main rivals cars gets slower
by the same margin. The competition has to make up .6 up to a
second, and they've only got 75M DM to do so.

For these two top teams, it's IMHO it's simpler and cheaper to
get MS (the same logic doesn't apply for the other teams).

Jean Todt and Luca di Montezemolo seem to think likewise.

Quote:

> Hill has pushed Jordan to where they are now
> and is worth his money.

Hill most certainly is worth his money, no doubt.

But allow me the question. Were Gary Anderson, Mike Gascoyne,
the Goodyear and the Mugen Honda staff and Ralfie just cheerleaders
in a one man show?

Quote:

> > Zanardi's salary might seem a bit high, but he turned down a 12M $
> > CART offer in favor of Williams' 6M $.
> > I wonder, is he an "adverti***t star" in the US, or elsewhere?

> He is two times CART champion.

Of course, but I was wondering if he has an "image" that can
easily be marketed. Does he show up in ads often?

I have a hard time imagining why personal sponsors pay him 3M DM.
His American sponsors loose their market when entering the
European oriented F1 circus, and IMHO so far he isn't appealing
enough to potential European sponsors. This will change, but so
far not many people know him over here.

Quote:

> > Alesi, Frentzen and the Benetton drivers (how much do they get?)
> > seem like a bargain.

> Sauber don't have a budget to pay Alesi such a salary as The McBoys.

But other teams have the money. Why shouldn't Ferrari or McLaren
get Jean to push their #1s. I bet he'd do a fine job...

Quote:

> The Benneton drivers are still young and in daily life you earn more when
> you're more expierenced and older than when you were younger.

Dunno. You earn as much as you are "worth".
IMHO talent is far more important than experience for
a F1 driver.

Sven.
--
...and that is how we know the Earth is banana-shaped.

by **Stefan Mazu** » Wed, 03 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

> But allow me the question. Were Gary Anderson, Mike Gascoyne,
> the Goodyear and the Mugen Honda staff and Ralfie just cheerleaders
> in a one man show?

I think the same could be said about Schumacher. Don't get me wrong, I
think he is the current best, but he came at Ferrari at a time where the
reconstruction was entering the results phase. He is a big part of the
succes Ferrari as, but not the sole responsable.

Quote:

> Of course, but I was wondering if he has an "image" that can
> easily be marketed. Does he show up in ads often?

I live in Canada. I saw Zanardi in ads a couple of times but I have yet
to see Schumacher, Hill or any F1 driver so far (including Villeneuve).
I think that you gonna see a bit more of him. Ads are for a target
audience, Europe is the target for F1, North America is for CART.

Quote:

> I have a hard time imagining why personal sponsors pay him 3M DM.
> His American sponsors loose their market when entering the
> European oriented F1 circus, and IMHO so far he isn't appealing
> enough to potential European sponsors. This will change, but so
> far not many people know him over here.

I'm not a big fan of Alex, but I think he will appeal to great deal of
people. Heck, he's just impossible to hate.

Quote:

> But other teams have the money. Why shouldn't Ferrari or McLaren
> get Jean to push their #1s. I bet he'd do a fine job...

Probably would. But I think he as a real problem with failure. A second
seat would be "unconstructive" for him.

Quote:

> Dunno. You earn as much as you are "worth".
> IMHO talent is far more important than experience for
> a F1 driver.

Humm. Not sure about that. Just look at Hill. In my mind, not the most
talented out there, but he sure learned a lot of his experiences. He is
a better driver today that he potentially was 6 or 7 years back.

Quote:

> Sven.
> --
> ...and that is how we know the Earth is banana-shaped.

--
Stefan Mazur

by **Alain D** » Wed, 03 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

>> > The following list is in million DM. Current exchange rate is 1.8
>> > for the Dollar, 2.85 for the Pound Sterling.

>> > Michael Schumacher 100 (75 salary, 15 pers. sponsors, 10
merchandise)
>> > Jacques Villeneuve 22 (16 s ,6 ps)
>> > Mika Hakkinen 15 (10,5)
>> > Damon Hill 14 (8,6)
>> > Alex Zanardi 13 (10,3)

>> I do think Schumacher is overpaid. He did not return a championship
for
>> that money and Hakkinen did,

>Championships aren't important. They might be influential to his
>PR value, but IMHO they don't say much about a driver's talent
>(yes, I know. It isn't a popular opinion).

Wouldn't you think that winning a championship at this time is *very*
important for Ferrari? . They haven't had one in 19 years and are
about to lose their title as F1's most successful team to McLaren.
They hired a driver who guaranteed them a WC, that's what they
expected to get from MS and that's why they're paying him all this
money.

Quote:

>Here's why I think MS is worth the money.

>Both Ferrari and McLaren operate in the 300M DM area each year.
>Their cars and engines are highly developed wonders of
>engineering workmanship. In fact they are so highly developed
>that to gain just a fraction of a second would require to
>research some *** alloys, or to do some real fancy
>aerodynamics tricks. It's incredibly expensive for them to
>further improve just a tiny little bit.

>In comes Michael Schumacher. Just by miracle, my cars is .3 to
>.5s faster, and as a bonus, my main rivals cars gets slower
>by the same margin. The competition has to make up .6 up to a
>second, and they've only got 75M DM to do so.

Aw give it a break will ya! Schumacher is .3 to .5 faster than the
drivers who had the dubious privilege of driving with him in cars that
were tailored to MS's specifications and style, for teams who
concentrated their efforts on getting one driver, Michael Schumacher,
the top step on the podium. Yes Schumacher is faster on wet tracks.
That's about it. Hill (Hill, BTW, has as many pole positions as Schumi
has, in less GPs), Villeneuve and Hakkinen have proven just as fast as
Schumacher in most situations and faster on certain types of tracks.
Heck, I'm sure you give Michael's car to Alexander Wurtz and he'll
give him a run for his money... How much is Wurtz earning? I'm still
looking for the extra "DM" McLaren had to spend to stay ahead of
Schumacher last year. What I see is a load of Liras spent by Ferrari
to catch up. What I see is a load of Liras spent by Ferrari to have
people believe MS deserves all the money he's been earning with
Ferrari since he drives for them.

Quote:

>For these two top teams, it's IMHO it's simpler and cheaper to
>get MS (the same logic doesn't apply for the other teams).

Which teams are you talking about? Ferrari and McLaren? What about
Williams who won 2 of the last 3 titles *without* Schumacher? Anyway,
hiring Schumacher isn't simple and certainly not cheaper (if your
objective is the WC).

Quote:

>Jean Todt and Luca di Montezemolo seem to think likewise.

And Enzo must be spinning in his grave!

Quote:

>> Hill has pushed Jordan to where they are now
>> and is worth his money.

>Hill most certainly is worth his money, no doubt.

>But allow me the question. Were Gary Anderson, Mike Gascoyne,
>the Goodyear and the Mugen Honda staff and Ralfie just cheerleaders
>in a one man show?

And were Ross Brawn, Rory Byrne, the Goodyear and the rest of the
Ferrari staff also just cheerleaders
in Michael's show?

Quote:

>> > Zanardi's salary might seem a bit high, but he turned down a 12M
$
>> > CART offer in favor of Williams' 6M $.

How can any driver's salary seem high compared to Schumacher's?

Quote:

>> > I wonder, is he an "adverti***t star" in the US, or elsewhere?

He featured in many commercials for Target and other, more
"automotive" related ads in the U.S. and Canada.

Quote:

>> He is two times CART champion.
>Of course, but I was wondering if he has an "image" that can
>easily be marketed. Does he show up in ads often?

>I have a hard time imagining why personal sponsors pay him 3M DM.
>His American sponsors loose their market when entering the
>European oriented F1 circus, and IMHO so far he isn't appealing
>enough to potential European sponsors. This will change, but so
>far not many people know him over here.

Yep, this will change.

Quote:

>> > Alesi, Frentzen and the Benetton drivers (how much do they get?)
>> > seem like a bargain.

>> Sauber don't have a budget to pay Alesi such a salary as The
McBoys.

>But other teams have the money. Why shouldn't Ferrari or McLaren
>get Jean to push their #1s. I bet he'd do a fine job...

Well, let's say they kept Jean instead of hiring MS and still put in
all the money they sank in the team since he joined, plus the
difference between Jean and Michael's salary yearly and say they had
given equal opportunity to Eddie Irvine to show his talent, then who
knows? Hmm? IMHO they would've won the title in '97 instead of
Williams...

Quote:

>> The Benneton drivers are still young and in daily life you earn
more when
>> you're more expierenced and older than when you were younger.

>Dunno. You earn as much as you are "worth".
>IMHO talent is far more important than experience for
>a F1 driver.

Experience won't buy talent but talented drivers get better with
experience. Well, most drivers... some have been known to lose it with
time...

Alain D.

by **Sven =8^** » Thu, 04 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

> >Championships aren't important. They might be influential to his
> >PR value, but IMHO they don't say much about a driver's talent
> >(yes, I know. It isn't a popular opinion).

> Wouldn't you think that winning a championship at this time is *very*
> important for Ferrari? . They haven't had one in 19 years and are
> about to lose their title as F1's most successful team to McLaren.
> They hired a driver who guaranteed them a WC, that's what they
> expected to get from MS and that's why they're paying him all this
> money.

Yes, of course (although they just signed a driver that *increased
the likelihood* of a WC).

I meant that the fact that a driver wins (or does not win)
a championship should not influence his "value". If Schumi
would have won the title in Suzuka, then why should I think he
or MH are any better or worse?

I don't think it's a question of talent if you win or lose the
title by a couple of points. If both driver-car packages are equal,
it's all down to luck.

Quote:

> Aw give it a break will ya! Schumacher is .3 to .5 faster than the
> drivers who had the dubious privilege of driving with him in cars that
> were tailored to MS's specifications and style, for teams who
> concentrated their efforts on getting one driver, Michael Schumacher,
> the top step on the podium.

Those drivers are usually .5 to over a second behind.

Quote:

> Yes Schumacher is faster on wet tracks.
> That's about it. Hill (Hill, BTW, has as many pole positions as Schumi
> has, in less GPs), Villeneuve and Hakkinen have proven just as fast as
> Schumacher in most situations and faster on certain types of tracks.

The cars might have played a role as well. It's hard to tell, but
I think MS *is* that much faster.

Quote:

> Heck, I'm sure you give Michael's car to Alexander Wurtz and he'll
> give him a run for his money... How much is Wurtz earning? I'm still
> looking for the extra "DM" McLaren had to spend to stay ahead of
> Schumacher last year.

(paraphrased)

"If you know what we've had to spent just to catch up
to Michael Schumacher you'd be amazed. We'd love to
have him".

Norbert Haug, head of Mercedes motorsports.

Quote:

> Which teams are you talking about? Ferrari and McLaren? What about
> Williams who won 2 of the last 3 titles *without* Schumacher?

I was talking about the current situation. Thanks to the SuperTec,
Williams is out of the picture right now. If more then two teams
are at the top, then of course this logic doesn't apply.

Quote:

> Anyway,
> hiring Schumacher isn't simple and certainly not cheaper (if your
> objective is the WC).

maybe not cheaper (more likely at a "break even point") but you
have to admit it's simpler to sign Schumi as to R&D a lot of
innovative and *** stuff to be competitive.

Quote:

> And were Ross Brawn, Rory Byrne, the Goodyear and the rest of the
> Ferrari staff also just cheerleaders
> in Michael's show?

no. I never said so. This is perfectly true for any driver and team.

BTW, I might be sending the wrong signals, but I'm not a Schumi fan
(actually I'm quite the opposite). I just like to be controversial.

Quote:

> >> > Zanardi's salary might seem a bit high, but he turned down a 12M $
> >> > CART offer in favor of Williams' 6M $.
> How can any driver's salary seem high compared to Schumacher's?

Relative to the others. Zanardi has the fourth highest salary in the
business. I love Alex, but #4 seems a bit high (right now) if you ask
me.

Quote:

> Well, let's say they kept Jean instead of hiring MS and still put in
> all the money they sank in the team since he joined, plus the
> difference between Jean and Michael's salary yearly and say they had
> given equal opportunity to Eddie Irvine to show his talent, then who
> knows? Hmm? IMHO they would've won the title in '97 instead of
> Williams...

I doubt it, but who knows.

Quote:

> Experience won't buy talent but talented drivers get better with
> experience. Well, most drivers... some have been known to lose it with
> time...

Actually I think that quite a few drivers seem to lose it with time, or
at least don't progress any further.
Currently there are extremely many drivers who where rookie sensations,
but somehow failed to meet (higher) expectations in the following years.

Sven.
--
The Sausage Principle: People who love sausage and respect the
law should never watch either one being made.

by **Alain D** » Thu, 04 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

>Yes, of course (although they just signed a driver that *increased
>the likelihood* of a WC).

>I meant that the fact that a driver wins (or does not win)
>a championship should not influence his "value". If Schumi
>would have won the title in Suzuka, then why should I think he
>or MH are any better or worse?

But a WC *does* influence value, doesn't it? Just look at who the best
paid
drivers are: Schumacher, Villeneuve, Hakkinen, Hill, Zanardi (double
CART championship). All the best paid are also champions. Facts
(figures) speak for themselves here...

Quote:

>I don't think it's a question of talent if you win or lose the
>title by a couple of points. If both driver-car packages are equal,
>it's all down to luck.

Yes and no. One could say that champions make their own luck
(Schumacher certainly knows a thing or two about *that* (;o)

Quote:

>> Aw give it a break will ya! Schumacher is .3 to .5 faster than the
>> drivers who had the dubious privilege of driving with him in cars
that
>> were tailored to MS's specifications and style, for teams who
>> concentrated their efforts on getting one driver, Michael
Schumacher,
>> the top step on the podium.

>Those drivers are usually .5 to over a second behind.

Oh okay, what the heck, maybe... I just don't feel like going over the
stats for the last 5 years...

Quote:

>> Yes Schumacher is faster on wet tracks.
>> That's about it. Hill (Hill, BTW, has as many pole positions as
Schumi
>> has, in less GPs), Villeneuve and Hakkinen have proven just as fast
as
>> Schumacher in most situations and faster on certain types of
tracks.

>The cars might have played a role as well. It's hard to tell, but
>I think MS *is* that much faster.

Of course the cars played a role, that's the whole discussion here.
You claim His Majesty M. Schumacher's "outstanding" skills are enough
to make the difference. I say not. Especially when you factor in his
unpredictability under pressure that have cost Ferrari dearly on more
than one occasion the last two seasons. Especially when you consider
that Ferrari has not been an inferior car over the last two seasons,
often performing better than the competition as the seasons
developped.
They're just slow to get going and even acknowledged that themselves.
I suppose they bought in too much into this bull theory that
Schumacher can make up for a car's deficiencies... he can't, not
consistently, not over a season anyway. This year they worked their
asses off during the winter months. Just watch them next week-end. I'm
telling you this: Ferrari will win in OZ next week-end.

Quote:

>> Heck, I'm sure you give Michael's car to Alexander Wurtz and he'll
>> give him a run for his money... How much is Wurtz earning? I'm
still
>> looking for the extra "DM" McLaren had to spend to stay ahead of
>> Schumacher last year.

>(paraphrased)

>"If you know what we've had to spent just to catch up
>to Michael Schumacher you'd be amazed. We'd love to
>have him".

>Norbert Haug, head of Mercedes motorsports.

Of course, what do you expect him to say about Germany's dearest
champ? Fact is they had to spend their millions to catch Renault
first, didn't they? You know, Renault who kept winning despite
Schumacher going to Ferrari...

<snip>

Quote:

>> Anyway,
>> hiring Schumacher isn't simple and certainly not cheaper (if your
>> objective is the WC).

>maybe not cheaper (more likely at a "break even point") but you
>have to admit it's simpler to sign Schumi as to R&D a lot of
>innovative and *** stuff to be competitive.

No because I don't consider Schumacher able to make up for all the
innovative and *** stuff if the other team is putting a driver
equally competent behind the steering wheel. Someone say like Hill,
Hakkinen or Villeneuve.

Quote:

>> And were Ross Brawn, Rory Byrne, the Goodyear and the rest of the
>> Ferrari staff also just cheerleaders
>> in Michael's show?

>no. I never said so. This is perfectly true for any driver and team.

>BTW, I might be sending the wrong signals, but I'm not a Schumi fan
>(actually I'm quite the opposite). I just like to be controversial.

That's okay, I enjoy creating polemic too once in a while. With
Schumacher you can't miss!

Quote:

>> >> > Zanardi's salary might seem a bit high, but he turned down a
12M $
>> >> > CART offer in favor of Williams' 6M $.
>> How can any driver's salary seem high compared to Schumacher's?

>Relative to the others. Zanardi has the fourth highest salary in the
>business. I love Alex, but #4 seems a bit high (right now) if you ask
>me.

I guess Sir Frank gambled on Zanardi, like he gambled on Villeneuve. I
think he won't regret it.

<snip>

Quote:

>> Experience won't buy talent but talented drivers get better with
>> experience. Well, most drivers... some have been known to lose it
with
>> time...

>Actually I think that quite a few drivers seem to lose it with time,
or
>at least don't progress any further.
>Currently there are extremely many drivers who where rookie
sensations,
>but somehow failed to meet (higher) expectations in the following

years.

Often because of their drive... sometimes of their own doing...

Names?

Frentzen
Magnussen
Coulthard
Salo?

...

Alain D.

by **Sven =8^** » Fri, 05 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

> But a WC *does* influence value, doesn't it? Just look at who the best
> paid
> drivers are: Schumacher, Villeneuve, Hakkinen, Hill, Zanardi (double
> CART championship). All the best paid are also champions. Facts
> (figures) speak for themselves here...

okay, a title *confirms* talent, so yes, it does influence the value.

OTOH one could argue that those that won a title are the very best in
the first place. It was quite obvious early on that Schumi, Mika and
Jacques were incredible drivers.

Quote:

> Yes and no. One could say that champions make their own luck
> (Schumacher certainly knows a thing or two about *that* (;o)

ouch! ;-)

I think we have to agree to disagree on the Michael Schumacher thing.
It's just a gut feeling, but I still think he's a couple of tenth faster
than any other current driver.

Which doesn't mean that I like him.. ;-)

Quote:

> I guess Sir Frank gambled on Zanardi, like he gambled on Villeneuve. I
> think he won't regret it.

Neither do I.
Alex will give a lot to the sport, both in and out of the car.

Sven.
--
Wouldn't Monica Lewinsky and Bernie Ecclestone make a nice couple?
After all, she likes elderly men with power...

by **Ford Prefe** » Fri, 05 Mar 1999 04:00:00

On 02 Mar 1999 10:47:11 +0100, Sven =8^]

Quote:

>[from sid]

<snip>

Earn? Did you say *earn*?

-joe-

by **Alain D** » Fri, 05 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Quote:

>I think we have to agree to disagree on the Michael Schumacher thing.
>It's just a gut feeling, but I still think he's a couple of tenth
faster
>than any other current driver.

On some types of circuits yes. The more "technical" tracks I would
say, tracks with a balance of fast and tight sections, like San
Marino, Magny-Cours, Montreal, yes. On other ones, no. Like I always
say when it comes down to comparing skills: in equal machinery give me
Villeneuve over Schumacher anytime in Hockenheim, Hill over Schumacher
in Hungaroring. Ironic, isn't it, that Schumacher performs better in
Canada and Villeneuve in Germany? Anyway I have a problem with this
analysis about Schumacher being consistently faster. Drivers' styles
are always better suited for certain types of tracks and weather
conditions than others. F1 racing is more subtle than what many
analysts try to reduce it to. A lot of Schumacher's reputation comes
from his abilities in the rain. But the majority of races are run on
dry pavement. I have as much admiration for drivers who have the guts
to remove practically all downforce and keep the pedal to the floor in
a fast corner at 280 km/h + as for other ones able to take a grossly
inferior machine and toss it around a tight circuit like Monaco and
end-up ahead (like Panis two years ago) and I value their skills
accordingly.

Quote:

>Which doesn't mean that I like him.. ;-)

Well, I'll say this about Michael: the show wouldn't be the same
without him...

Quote:

>> I guess Sir Frank gambled on Zanardi, like he gambled on
Villeneuve. I
>> think he won't regret it.

>Neither do I.
>Alex will give a lot to the sport, both in and out of the car.

Can't wait to see Sir Frank's face when Alex goes for his first donut
;o)

Quote:

>Wouldn't Monica Lewinsky and Bernie Ecclestone make a nice couple?
>After all, she likes elderly men with power...

At 46, do I qualify? I wouldn't mind spending some time with Monica. I
heard she smokes a mean cigar! I don't think I would qualify in the
power department however.

Alain D.

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