Williams cheating again.

Williams cheating again.

Post by Phil Gra » Mon, 22 Sep 1997 04:00:00


Quote:

>    It must be the Williams team way of doing things. If you can't win
>honestly then you whine and backstab to get your way. Today's GP in
>Austria shows their lack of m***fibre. They claim that Schumacher passed
>Frentzen under a yellow flag and tricked the race officials into
>penalizing Schumacher for this supposed infraction. This blatantly shows
>their devious character just as their similar actions in 1994 did. One can
>only hope that it will backfire on them as it did in '94 when they lost
>the WC. Perhaps there is a god out there and I surely hope he smiles on
>Ferrari now.

Err, yeah but Schu DID pass under yellow he even said so himself.

Phil.

 
 
 

Williams cheating again.

Post by Barry Posne » Mon, 22 Sep 1997 04:00:00

Hey, Mark, it looks like you have a soulmate. And a Canadian too, to boot!
Now, this will stop you making those silly "all .ca are alike" jabs, won't
it?

;)

bp/ed/ab/ca/eh?

:       It must be the Williams team way of doing things. If you can't win
: honestly then you whine and backstab to get your way. Today's GP in
: Austria shows their lack of m***fibre. They claim that Schumacher passed
: Frentzen under a yellow flag and tricked the race officials into
: penalizing Schumacher for this supposed infraction. This blatantly shows
: their devious character just as their similar actions in 1994 did. One can
: only hope that it will backfire on them as it did in '94 when they lost
: the WC. Perhaps there is a god out there and I surely hope he smiles on
: Ferrari now.

 
 
 

Williams cheating again.

Post by Robert Ro » Mon, 22 Sep 1997 04:00:00

:       It must be the Williams team way of doing things. If you can't win
: honestly then you whine and backstab to get your way. Today's GP in
: Austria shows their lack of m***fibre. They claim that Schumacher passed
: Frentzen under a yellow flag and tricked the race officials into
: penalizing Schumacher for this supposed infraction. This blatantly shows
: their devious character just as their similar actions in 1994 did. One can
: only hope that it will backfire on them as it did in '94 when they lost
: the WC. Perhaps there is a god out there and I surely hope he smiles on
: Ferrari now.

I don't see your point whatsoever.  If you watched the race (and perhaps
you didn't get to see this particular point of view) there is coverage of
Frentzen on board going by a local yellow around the corner.  Then as he
completes the corner we see Schumacher pass him at that exact spot (ie.
the local yellow), so there is nothing to be said other than the penalty
was just.  I don't think, from Micheal's viewpoint, that he saw the flag
and that's partially why you rely on your team to radio you about
incidents ahead.
 --

 
 
 

Williams cheating again.

Post by Max Behar » Mon, 22 Sep 1997 04:00:00

        It must be the Williams team way of doing things. If you can't win
honestly then you whine and backstab to get your way. Today's GP in
Austria shows their lack of m***fibre. They claim that Schumacher passed
Frentzen under a yellow flag and tricked the race officials into
penalizing Schumacher for this supposed infraction. This blatantly shows
their devious character just as their similar actions in 1994 did. One can
only hope that it will backfire on them as it did in '94 when they lost
the WC. Perhaps there is a god out there and I surely hope he smiles on
Ferrari now.

 
 
 

Williams cheating again.

Post by One morning, the ScrewJunkmailer » Mon, 22 Sep 1997 04:00:00

Didn't Shumacher pass H2F or not? Oh, I get it, William's made the story up
and the officals belived it..

Wake up, Shumacher made the MISTAKE!

Quote:

>         It must be the Williams team way of doing things. If you can't win
> honestly then you whine and backstab to get your way. Today's GP in
> Austria shows their lack of m***fibre. They claim that Schumacher passed
> Frentzen under a yellow flag and tricked the race officials into
> penalizing Schumacher for this supposed infraction. This blatantly shows
> their devious character just as their similar actions in 1994 did. One can
> only hope that it will backfire on them as it did in '94 when they lost
> the WC. Perhaps there is a god out there and I surely hope he smiles on
> Ferrari now.

 
 
 

Williams cheating again.

Post by Mark J. Fruscian » Tue, 23 Sep 1997 04:00:00

->Hey, Mark, it looks like you have a soulmate.

Just my luck, it's another guy...

->And a Canadian too, to boot!

AAAAYYYYYYY !  <  ;-)   >

->Now, this will stop you making those silly "all .ca are alike" jabs, won't it?

Well, I've never said all Canadians are alike...  

"AOL" , ".ca"... "There's small choice in rotten apple's."

;-)
Mark
http://www.pipeline.com/~opus

" 'Skeletons in the closet ?', hell:  I got skeletons running around
raiding leftovers from the 'fridge'..."  - Jimmy James

 
 
 

Williams cheating again.

Post by Eric Cot » Tue, 23 Sep 1997 04:00:00



Quote:

>    It must be the Williams team way of doing things. If you can't win
> honestly then you whine and backstab to get your way. Today's GP in
> Austria shows their lack of m***fibre. They claim that Schumacher
passed
> Frentzen under a yellow flag and tricked the race officials into
> penalizing Schumacher for this supposed infraction. This blatantly shows
> their devious character just as their similar actions in 1994 did. One
can
> only hope that it will backfire on them as it did in '94 when they lost
> the WC. Perhaps there is a god out there and I surely hope he smiles on
> Ferrari now.

I'm wondering who cheat the most this year Ferrari or Williams ??

Remember Montreal: The Ferrari of Micheal used 31 tires (instead of 28: the
rules)

Remember Monza, in practice session, while MS spun of the track (gravel)
yellow
flag came out, and JV was going too fast (from Ferrari point of view), they
protest,
and JV got a 9 race suspended race ban.

That is a short list, there's also the refrigerated fuel used at
Magny-Cours from
Ferrari (nobody from FIA) found this to be illegal, and how about that
traction
control used by Ferrari (have you ever noticed how Irvine gets those supper
start compared to previous years????) Again, the FIA is closing their eyes
on this.

Actually Williams used their own traction control device in parctice
session (prior
to Monza weekend), and the FIA warned them about the illegality of the TYPE
they were using. Seems that some type are legal, and others NOT.

The list could go on....

 
 
 

Williams cheating again.

Post by coft » Tue, 23 Sep 1997 04:00:00



Quote:

>    It must be the Williams team way of doing things. If you can't win
> honestly then you whine and backstab to get your way. Today's GP in
> Austria shows their lack of m***fibre. They claim that Schumacher
passed
> Frentzen under a yellow flag and tricked the race officials into
> penalizing Schumacher for this supposed infraction. This blatantly shows
> their devious character just as their similar actions in 1994 did. One
can
> only hope that it will backfire on them as it did in '94 when they lost
> the WC. Perhaps there is a god out there and I surely hope he smiles on
> Ferrari now.

Yess, and they probably blew up the Mercedes and Mugen-Honda
engines too, by remote control.
How devious can you get?  :-)

Odd Inge Aarstad

 
 
 

Williams cheating again.

Post by Ken Fletche » Tue, 23 Sep 1997 04:00:00

 I especially liked the in-car view from HHF's car.

You can clearly see the fresh accident of to the left then MS passing him on
the right.

At least MS did get months of suspended bans.

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Max Behara wrote in article ...

Quote:

> It must be the Williams team way of doing things. If you can't win
>honestly then you whine and backstab to get your way. Today's GP in
>Austria shows their lack of m***fibre. They claim that Schumacher passed
>Frentzen under a yellow flag and tricked the race officials into
>penalizing Schumacher for this supposed infraction. This blatantly shows
>their devious character just as their similar actions in 1994 did. One can
>only hope that it will backfire on them as it did in '94 when they lost
>the WC. Perhaps there is a god out there and I surely hope he smiles on
>Ferrari now.

 
 
 

Williams cheating again.

Post by Stefan Mazu » Tue, 23 Sep 1997 04:00:00

Quote:


> >  I especially liked the in-car view from HHF's car.
> > You can clearly see the fresh accident of to the left then MS passing him on
> > the right.

> As I said in another post - the 10 sec penalty is OK, as MS really did
> pass HHF under a yellow flag. But - you did see the on-board view from
> HHF's car, did you ? Then you must have noticed that the accident was in
> a right turn. The flag (the only one before the accident site, at least
> as could be seen from the onboard replay) was on the left side of the
> track, directly at the turn. Now imagine MS's situation. He is directly
> behind HHF and wants to overtake. They approach the turn at about 300
> km/h. HHF probably sees the yellow flag and thinks "heck, MS can't
> overtake here so I'll take the turn really clean". MS sees that HHF
> drives a different line, one which might allow him to overtake HHF. He
> takes this chance and tries to overtake. No chance of seeing the flag -
> 1st because he is behind/next to (on the other side of) HHFs car _and
> can't see through the car_, and 2nd because he is concentrating on
> overtaking HHF and on finding the correct braking point. Maybe he saw
> the flag when he was through, but as he had to start the overtaking
> maneuvre _way_ before the turn (after all, he had to be directly next to
> HHF in the turn), no chance of seeing it before he decided to overtake.

> MS said he really didn't see the flag, and I believe him. In this
> situation, the flag should have been on the _other_ side of the track -
> every driver would look there. The flag, as it was, could only be seen
> by a driver who was driving in front, not by somebody who was driving
> directly behind another car. OK, so the pit crew should have told him
> that there was an accident. But I think that at that moment, they had to
> cope with Irvine's broken car and probably did not think of any danger
> for MS.

> Well, it was a stupid situation and it probably decided the outcome of
> this year's WC. But - that's racing :-)

> I was positively surprised to see that MS accepted full responsibility
> for it - he was of course a little bit annoyed, but he probably saw that
> he couldn't change anything by protesting/putting the blame on the
> officials.

Sorry, there were flags on both side of the track. Watch the replay again.
 
 
 

Williams cheating again.

Post by Jens Bauman » Wed, 24 Sep 1997 04:00:00

Quote:

>  I especially liked the in-car view from HHF's car.
> You can clearly see the fresh accident of to the left then MS passing him on
> the right.

As I said in another post - the 10 sec penalty is OK, as MS really did
pass HHF under a yellow flag. But - you did see the on-board view from
HHF's car, did you ? Then you must have noticed that the accident was in
a right turn. The flag (the only one before the accident site, at least
as could be seen from the onboard replay) was on the left side of the
track, directly at the turn. Now imagine MS's situation. He is directly
behind HHF and wants to overtake. They approach the turn at about 300
km/h. HHF probably sees the yellow flag and thinks "heck, MS can't
overtake here so I'll take the turn really clean". MS sees that HHF
drives a different line, one which might allow him to overtake HHF. He
takes this chance and tries to overtake. No chance of seeing the flag -
1st because he is behind/next to (on the other side of) HHFs car _and
can't see through the car_, and 2nd because he is concentrating on
overtaking HHF and on finding the correct braking point. Maybe he saw
the flag when he was through, but as he had to start the overtaking
maneuvre _way_ before the turn (after all, he had to be directly next to
HHF in the turn), no chance of seeing it before he decided to overtake.

MS said he really didn't see the flag, and I believe him. In this
situation, the flag should have been on the _other_ side of the track -
every driver would look there. The flag, as it was, could only be seen
by a driver who was driving in front, not by somebody who was driving
directly behind another car. OK, so the pit crew should have told him
that there was an accident. But I think that at that moment, they had to
cope with Irvine's broken car and probably did not think of any danger
for MS.

Well, it was a stupid situation and it probably decided the outcome of
this year's WC. But - that's racing :-)

I was positively surprised to see that MS accepted full responsibility
for it - he was of course a little bit annoyed, but he probably saw that
he couldn't change anything by protesting/putting the blame on the
officials.

 
 
 

Williams cheating again.

Post by Stefan.We.. » Thu, 25 Sep 1997 04:00:00



Quote:



> > >  I especially liked the in-car view from HHF's car.
> > > You can clearly see the fresh accident of to the left then MS passing him
on
> > > the right.

 ...

Quote:
> Sorry, there were flags on both side of the track. Watch the replay again.

Sorry, this is shere and utter nonsense. I saw the replays about 10 or 15
times, and heard lots of official and less-official statements. There just
weren't any flags but on the left

regards

Stevie

-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
      http://www.dejanews.com/     Search, Read, Post to Usenet

 
 
 

Williams cheating again.

Post by Knobb » Thu, 25 Sep 1997 04:00:00

I'm not sure that it really matters if there were flags on both sides of
the track or if MS was looking at the dash or if he was having a quick ***
or whatever. MS is a pretty smart chap and he knows exactly what he can and
can't get away with. I'm convinced that for one reason or another, he
simply didn't see the flag. Even Alesi, who apparently can't see the
pitboards either(boy, I still can't believe that happened!!!!), wouldn't
pass under yellow. Let's not read too much into it and chalk it up to a bit
of an embarrassing and unintentional mistake by Schumi. I bet he was buying
the rounds that night for the Ferrari crews(and flashing sheepish grins at
Jean Todt!!!!). Also, don't get the idea that I'm one of the tiffosi
nutcakes who believe MS is God. GO Damon GO (in 98!!!). I just hope Eddie
Jordan doesn't make you drink any of that Guinness swill when you're
crowned WC next year!!!!!
--
Cheers,
Knobby

Don't get me violated, don't bend my airplane and don't cause me to lose
any bodily fluids.

 
 
 

Williams cheating again.

Post by Mark J. Fruscian » Thu, 25 Sep 1997 04:00:00

->Also, don't get the idea that I'm one of the tiffosi
->nutcakes who believe MS is God.

Actually, we believe Enzo is God...

Mark
http://www.pipeline.com/~opus

" 'Skeletons in the closet ?', hell:  I got skeletons running around
raiding leftovers from the 'fridge'..."  - Jimmy James

 
 
 

Williams cheating again.

Post by North Eas » Thu, 25 Sep 1997 04:00:00


Quote:


> Sorry, this is shere and utter nonsense. I saw the replays about 10 or 15
> times, and heard lots of official and less-official statements. There
just
> weren't any flags but on the left

who cares...
Quote:
> regards

> Stevie

> -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
>       http://www.dejanews.com/     Search, Read, Post to Usenet