Sport Today

by **Shiva IYE** » Sun, 24 May 2009 00:33:08

I was just wondering... whether there is any incentive to finish on
top at the end of the league stage...
Because once come semi-finals teams 1, 2, 3, and 4 are on level terms
again with any team
winning on a given day due to form...

That is why the higher ranked team say Team 1 in 1 vs 4 and Team 2
in 2 vs 3 in the semis should
be given the toss.. which means they have the right to elect to bat or
field without the customary toss..

This is fair under the given circumstances akin to a higher ranking
team having the home field advantage
in baseball and NFL.. WHY NOT????

The system could also be trialled in the upcoming T20 World Cup in
the knockout stages..

Secondly, the T20 finals SHOULD CERTAINLY be a BEST OF 3 affair to
remove the vagaries of chance
and luck.

Shiva IYER
220509
Krishnaarpanam

by **jzfredrick** » Sun, 24 May 2009 01:24:54

[snip the bullshit]

Quote:

> Secondly, the T20 finals SHOULD ?CERTAINLY be a BEST OF 3 affair to
> remove the vagaries of chance
> and luck

True. Best of 3 would be nice. Or perhaps even best of 5, but make it
5 days in a row, and increase the innings length, and overs per day.
Now THAT would be a test.

by **tendulkar.co** » Sun, 24 May 2009 01:31:25

Quote:

> [snip the bullshit]

> > Secondly, the T20 finals SHOULD ?CERTAINLY be a BEST OF 3 affair to
> > remove the vagaries of chance
> > and luck

> True. Best of 3 would be nice. Or perhaps even best of 5, but make it
> 5 days in a row, and increase the innings length, and overs per day.
> Now THAT would be a test.

Except a single test match innings is pure luck & not skill. So, the
correct approach is to have each team play five innings, so that true
skills are measured. To make it exciting have each of the innings
played out in different conditions

by **jzfredrick** » Sun, 24 May 2009 01:52:49

Quote:

> Except a single test match innings is pure luck & not skill.

You'd agree, then, that luck is a bigger factor in T20?

by **spadmanab..** » Sun, 24 May 2009 02:22:26

Quote:

> [snip the bullshit]

Hm...IMO, OP's idea is not a bad one. Right now, there is no
difference between finishing 1st or 4th in the IPL. Rewarding the top
place finsher with a won coin toss in the semifinal game is (at the
very least) an idea worth considering.

by **tendulkar.co** » Sun, 24 May 2009 02:27:53

Quote:

> > [snip the bullshit]

> Hm...IMO, OP's idea is not a bad one. ?Right now, there is no
> difference between finishing 1st or 4th in the IPL. ?Rewarding the top
> place finsher with a won coin toss in the semifinal game is (at the
> very least) an idea worth considering.

The team finishing 1st is rewarded by them playing the 4th place team.
The next best thing they could get is a home pitch advantage(Not
feasible due to tight scheduling & wastage). But, other than that, it
shouldn't carry any other advantage into the match.

by **spadmanab..** » Sun, 24 May 2009 02:44:44

Quote:

> > > [snip the bullshit]

> > Hm...IMO, OP's idea is not a bad one. ?Right now, there is no
> > difference between finishing 1st or 4th in the IPL. ?Rewarding the top
> > place finsher with a won coin toss in the semifinal game is (at the
> > very least) an idea worth considering.

> The team finishing 1st is rewarded by them playing the 4th place team.
> The next best thing they could get is a home pitch advantage(Not
> feasible due to tight scheduling & wastage). But, other than that, it
> shouldn't carry any other advantage into the match.

In (say) the NHL, first plays 8th in the playoffs AND gets home ice
advantage. They do carry an "other" advantage into the series.

In the IPL, 1st plays 4th and that's it. No other rewards for
finishing first. OP's idea is therefore worth considering.

by **guptatr..** » Sun, 24 May 2009 02:50:43

Quote:

> I was just wondering... whether there is any incentive to finish on
> top at the end of the league stage...
> Because once come semi-finals ?teams 1, 2, 3, and 4 are on level terms
> again with any team
> winning on a given day due to form...

> That ?is why the higher ranked team ?say Team 1 in 1 vs 4 and Team 2
> in 2 vs 3 in the semis should
> be given the toss.. which means they have the right to elect to bat or
> field without the customary toss..

I like this idea............worth trying.

Quote:

> Secondly, the T20 finals SHOULD ?CERTAINLY be a BEST OF 3 affair to
> remove the vagaries of chance
> and luck.

I agree with this too........

RG

by **jzfredrick** » Sun, 24 May 2009 03:00:51

Quote:

> Hm...IMO, OP's idea is not a bad one. ?Right now, there is no
> difference between finishing 1st or 4th in the IPL. ?Rewarding the top
> place finsher with a won coin toss in the semifinal game is (at the
> very least) an idea worth considering.

If you think about it for about 3 seconds you'll realise it's a
terrible idea. You're giving the best team an advantage. Especially
when you consider that you might come first because you scored a
single run more than the team coming 2nd (if based on a close table
and net run rate).

We've had many discussions about LESSENING the effect of the toss...
and that's because it can play too big a part in a game.

Aus, ODI, winning % all games = 61.24%
Aus, ODI, winning % when winning toss = 62.22%

Eng, ODI, winning % all games = 47.83%
Eng, ODI, winning % when winning toss = 50.20%

India, ODI, winning % all games = 48.38%
India, ODI, winning % when winning toss = 49.73%

If anything I'd rather give the lower ranked team the toss!

Besides, doesn't 1 get to play 4? Isn't that enough?

by **spadmanab..** » Sun, 24 May 2009 03:24:53

Quote:

> > Hm...IMO, OP's idea is not a bad one. ?Right now, there is no
> > difference between finishing 1st or 4th in the IPL. ?Rewarding the top
> > place finsher with a won coin toss in the semifinal game is (at the
> > very least) an idea worth considering.

> If you think about it for about 3 seconds you'll realise it's a
> terrible idea. You're giving the best team an advantage. Especially
> when you consider that you might come first because you scored a
> single run more than the team coming 2nd (if based on a close table
> and net run rate).

But none of these reasons dissuade leagues in other sports from
granting an advantage to the team that finished higher up in the round
robin. Plus, home ice advantage in ice hockey is worth a lot more
than being awarded the toss in a T20 game. And in (say) hockey, you
have No. 1 playing No. 8 in the first round. The difference between 1
and 8 is greater than the difference between 1 and 4.

So, we have a more lopsided match-up in hockey (than in cricket) with
the top place team getting an even bigger advantage (than the coin
toss we are talking about).

Now, I am not saying that the idea doesn't have some question marks
attached to it. I am simply saying that it is not a terrible idea by
any stretch of the imagination.

by **Shikari Shambh** » Sun, 24 May 2009 03:32:51

Quote:

> > > [snip the bullshit]

> > Hm...IMO, OP's idea is not a bad one. ?Right now, there is no
> > difference between finishing 1st or 4th in the IPL. ?Rewarding the top
> > place finsher with a won coin toss in the semifinal game is (at the
> > very least) an idea worth considering.

> The team finishing 1st is rewarded by them playing the 4th place team.

Do you agree that in 20-20 it is easier to beat a team with lower
number of points?

by **tendulkar.co** » Sun, 24 May 2009 03:40:29

Quote:

> > > > [snip the bullshit]

> > > Hm...IMO, OP's idea is not a bad one. ?Right now, there is no
> > > difference between finishing 1st or 4th in the IPL. ?Rewarding the top
> > > place finsher with a won coin toss in the semifinal game is (at the
> > > very least) an idea worth considering.

> > The team finishing 1st is rewarded by them playing the 4th place team.

> Do you agree that in 20-20 it is easier to beat a team with lower
> number of points?

No.

by **raghu.saklesh..** » Sun, 24 May 2009 04:50:40

Quote:

> > Hm...IMO, OP's idea is not a bad one. ?Right now, there is no
> > difference between finishing 1st or 4th in the IPL. ?Rewarding the top
> > place finsher with a won coin toss in the semifinal game is (at the
> > very least) an idea worth considering.

> If you think about it for about 3 seconds you'll realise it's a
> terrible idea.

If you think about what you are saying for 4 seconds you will realize
that it is not as clear as you think it is..

Quote:

> You're giving the best team an advantage. Especially
> when you consider that you might come first because you scored a
> single run more than the team coming 2nd (if based on a close table
> and net run rate).

But the team is not the best team especially if they have won by 1
run! It may just be that they had the better nerves that day or may
have been just lucky winning the toss or something that helped them
win.

Quote:

> We've had many discussions about LESSENING the effect of the toss...
> and that's because it can play too big a part in a game.

> Aus, ODI, winning % all games = 61.24%
> Aus, ODI, winning % when winning toss = 62.22%

> Eng, ODI, winning % all games = 47.83%
> Eng, ODI, winning % when winning toss = 50.20%

> India, ODI, winning % all games = 48.38%
> India, ODI, winning % when winning toss = 49.73%

> If anything I'd rather give the lower ranked team the toss!

> Besides, doesn't 1 get to play 4? Isn't that enough?

There are two different issues here.
1) The luck factor associated with winning the toss and thoughts on
how to minimize it.
2) Giving an advantage to the better team entering the playoff stage.

The OP was referring to 2) and not 1).

You are just confusing the two together..

-Raghu

by **jzfredrick** » Sun, 24 May 2009 07:58:55

Quote:

> 2) Giving an advantage to the better team entering the playoff stage.

It is being suggested that some advantage, big or small I'm not sure,
is given to the team that comes first. This is is a reward for coming
first.

It's difficult to quantify how big this benefit is. Just looking at
the above stats, it seems that winning to toss will help India win an
extra 3 games per 100 games played - a 6 game swing.

To me sport should be a fair contest between two teams. Not fair as in
skill (as some teams are clearly better than others) but rather
conditions. A level playing field. With the same conditions, we should
be able to watch the game and see who is best.

I think making regulatory changes to give one team an advantage takes
away from sport. It's almost cheating. The MORE common thing to do is
to handicap the BETTER player.

As for "giving the better team an advantage" I still don't think that
scoring ONE more run over 14 games makes one team better than the
other. Well, not so much better that they deserve an advantage.

This proposal has more holes than my rusty sieve.

by **Andrew Dunfor** » Sun, 24 May 2009 11:36:32

Quote:

>> Hm...IMO, OP's idea is not a bad one. Right now, there is no
>> difference between finishing 1st or 4th in the IPL. Rewarding the top
>> place finsher with a won coin toss in the semifinal game is (at the
>> very least) an idea worth considering.

> If you think about it for about 3 seconds you'll realise it's a
> terrible idea. You're giving the best team an advantage. Especially
> when you consider that you might come first because you scored a
> single run more than the team coming 2nd (if based on a close table
> and net run rate).

Absolutely, in which case it is inherently unfair to let only the four
highest-ranked teams into the semi-final. I hereby propose the
semi-finalist be increased to eight teams; we could rename them - I don't
know - perhaps quarter finals.

<snip>

Andrew

Sport Today

Higher ranked teams in IPL should be rewarded with the toss in the knockout stages

Higher ranked teams in IPL should be rewarded with the toss in the knockout stages

Higher ranked teams in IPL should be rewarded with the toss in the knockout stages

Higher ranked teams in IPL should be rewarded with the toss in the knockout stages

Higher ranked teams in IPL should be rewarded with the toss in the knockout stages

Higher ranked teams in IPL should be rewarded with the toss in the knockout stages

Higher ranked teams in IPL should be rewarded with the toss in the knockout stages

Higher ranked teams in IPL should be rewarded with the toss in the knockout stages

Higher ranked teams in IPL should be rewarded with the toss in the knockout stages

Higher ranked teams in IPL should be rewarded with the toss in the knockout stages

Higher ranked teams in IPL should be rewarded with the toss in the knockout stages

Higher ranked teams in IPL should be rewarded with the toss in the knockout stages

Higher ranked teams in IPL should be rewarded with the toss in the knockout stages

Higher ranked teams in IPL should be rewarded with the toss in the knockout stages

Higher ranked teams in IPL should be rewarded with the toss in the knockout stages

Higher ranked teams in IPL should be rewarded with the toss in the knockout stages