1964-1982 - Boycott's greatest English Test team

1964-1982 - Boycott's greatest English Test team

Post by David Wheel » Wed, 28 Apr 1993 16:34:34


My wonderful wife, not satisfied with being a cricket-widow all summer,
bought me a video last Christmas which details Geoff Boycott's selection
of the best English Test team that he could put together from players
with whom he played during his Test career (1964-1981/82).  Assume all
players at the height of their powers; it looks pretty formidable to me:

Geoff Boycott (goes without saying, really :-) )
John Edrich
Ted Dexter
Colin Cowdrey
Ken Barrington
David Gower
Ian Botham
Alan Knott
John Snow
Ray Illingworth (c)
Geoff Arnold
Bob Willis

Leave Dexter to carry the drinks and it's hard to find a serious weakness.

Two contentions: I might have chosen Chris Old in front of Geoff Arnold,
but GB did make the proviso that this was for a match to be played in
England, so I can't disagree too much; Arnold was certainly a master of
English conditions.  For a touring side, however, I would prefer Old.
Secondly, I think I would have preferred Tom Graveney to Dexter.  But
then, what do I know; I didn't actually play with any of them.

Anyone think they can improve on this?  What about aggregated teams from
the same era from other Test-playing countries?  I have a few thoughts
already, particularly about WI and Australia...

-----------------------------------------------------------
David A. Wheeler, Motorola Ltd., Camberley, Surrey, England

 
 
 

1964-1982 - Boycott's greatest English Test team

Post by MANE VEMB » Thu, 29 Apr 1993 00:48:52

Quote:

>Geoff Boycott (goes without saying, really :-) )
>John Edrich
>Ted Dexter
>Colin Cowdrey
>Ken Barrington
>David Gower
>Ian Botham
>Alan Knott
>John Snow
>Ray Illingworth (c)
>Geoff Arnold
>Bob Willis
>Leave Dexter to carry the drinks and it's hard to find a serious weakness.

Very true....

Quote:
>Two contentions: I might have chosen Chris Old in front of Geoff Arnold,
>but GB did make the proviso that this was for a match to be played in
>England, so I can't disagree too much; Arnold was certainly a master of
>English conditions.  For a touring side, however, I would prefer Old.
>Secondly, I think I would have preferred Tom Graveney to Dexter.  But
>then, what do I know; I didn't actually play with any of them.
>Anyone think they can improve on this?  What about aggregated teams from
>the same era from other Test-playing countries?  I have a few thoughts
>already, particularly about WI and Australia...

Too bad that Derek Underwood got left out. On a rain affected wicket
he could run thro' any side. At the same time, it's tough to drop anyone
from the above side to make room for him! Hell, I'd go one step further
and drop Dexter.....;-)

Mani Vembar

Picker International, Inc.
595 Miner Road
Highland Heights OH 44143

Quote:
>David A. Wheeler, Motorola Ltd., Camberley, Surrey, England



 
 
 

1964-1982 - Boycott's greatest English Test team

Post by A.M.T. Be » Thu, 29 Apr 1993 01:08:45


Quote:
>My wonderful wife, not satisfied with being a cricket-widow all summer,
>bought me a video last Christmas which details Geoff Boycott's selection
>of the best English Test team that he could put together from players
>with whom he played during his Test career (1964-1981/82).  Assume all
>players at the height of their powers; it looks pretty formidable to me:

>Geoff Boycott (goes without saying, really :-) )
>John Edrich
>Ted Dexter
>Colin Cowdrey
>Ken Barrington
>David Gower
>Ian Botham
>Alan Knott
>John Snow
>Ray Illingworth (c)
>Geoff Arnold
>Bob Willis

>Leave Dexter to carry the drinks and it's hard to find a serious weakness.

>Two contentions: I might have chosen Chris Old in front of Geoff Arnold,
>but GB did make the proviso that this was for a match to be played in
>England, so I can't disagree too much; Arnold was certainly a master of
>English conditions.  For a touring side, however, I would prefer Old.
>Secondly, I think I would have preferred Tom Graveney to Dexter.  But
>then, what do I know; I didn't actually play with any of them.

>Anyone think they can improve on this?  What about aggregated teams from
>the same era from other Test-playing countries?  I have a few thoughts
>already, particularly about WI and Australia...

>-----------------------------------------------------------
>David A. Wheeler, Motorola Ltd., Camberley, Surrey, England


I know that Geoffrey is always right and everyone else is always wrong
on these things (bit of trans-pennine satire :-)) but I'd replace
Arnold by Derek Underwood. 12th man, anyone of 2-6 in the batting order.
(unless we are playing at Headingley, when I'd leave out Illingworth!)

Lets get back to commenting on cricket, picking our best teams of all time etc.
and leave the nationalistic flames to email!

tony bell                  ! keep on running   live long and prosper
serc daresbury laboratory  ! "Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast"


 
 
 

1964-1982 - Boycott's greatest English Test team

Post by Bala » Thu, 29 Apr 1993 03:32:31

Quote:

>Geoff Boycott (goes without saying, really :-) )
>John Edrich
>Ted Dexter
>Colin Cowdrey
>Ken Barrington
>David Gower
>Ian Botham
>Alan Knott
>John Snow
>Ray Illingworth (c)
>Geoff Arnold
>Bob Willis

Well, here goes for Windies (slightly biased by the first Test match I
ever saw: Gary Sobers's team at Chepauk, 1966)

Gordon Greenidge
Conrad Hunte
Rohan Kanhai
Vivian Richards
Seymour Nurse (over Clive Lloyd: get those flamethrowers ready)
Gary Sobers (c) (wasn't a great captain, but who else is there?)
Jackie Hendricks (w)
Andy Roberts
Wes Hall
Michael Holding
Lance Gibbs

The team could maybe use another all-rounder, but I can't think of
anyone I would drop from this team. Maybe when you have Sobers, you
don't need another. This is certainly the team I'd most love to watch.
Hence Seymour Nurse: I'd rather watch him score 50 than Lloyd scoring
200.

Australia:

Bobby Simpson (c)
Keith Stackpole
Ian Chappell
Norman O'Neill
Greg Chappell
Doug Walters
Allan Border
Rod Marsh (w) [maybe Wally Grout? Naah...]
Alan Davidson
Dennis Lillee
? Thomson (I've forgotten Thommo's first name?)
12th man: Paul Sheahan (but would they let him field at cover?)

This team is of course to play at Perth or Brisbane, hence no spinners.
O what a slip field!

India:

Sunil Gavaskar (c)
Farokh Engineer (w)
Dilip Vengsarkar
G.R. Viswanath
Pataudi
Mohinder Amarnath
Kapil Dev
Eknath Solkar
Errapalli Prasanna
Bishen Bedi
B.S. Chandrasekhar

And *this* team is to play at Chepauk, of course. Personally I think
Kirmani was as good a bat, and certainly kept better wickets than FE
but then who'd open with SG?

Let the flames begin.

Balaji

 
 
 

1964-1982 - Boycott's greatest English Test team

Post by Anthony Walle » Thu, 29 Apr 1993 18:32:28


Quote:

>Australia:

>Bobby Simpson (c)
>Keith Stackpole
>Ian Chappell
>Norman O'Neill
>Greg Chappell
>Doug Walters
>Allan Border
>Rod Marsh (w) [maybe Wally Grout? Naah...]
>Alan Davidson
>Dennis Lillee
>? Thomson (I've forgotten Thommo's first name?)
>12th man: Paul Sheahan (but would they let him field at cover?)

>This team is of course to play at Perth or Brisbane, hence no spinners.
>O what a slip field!

  I think that you'll find that Australian sides from 1964-1982 always
played at least one specialist spinner, regardless of the ground.
Even though I love leggies I think that Benaud was about finished by
1964, so Ashley Mallett would get the nod (Another brilliant addition
to the slip cordon or "Octopus Alley" as it was known in 1975-76).

  This team has 7 specialist batsmen.  That's 1 too many.  Out goes
AB whose domination has been mainly after 1982.  From memory his debut
was in WSC days (1977-78??).  And although Stacky is a personal
favourite, it would be hard to leave out Bill Lawry, which gives you
the advantageous lefthand/righthand opening partnership.

  Allan Davidson was a beautiful bowler with the advantages of being a
left armer and a solid batsman - but was he still playing in 1964??
He might be replaced by Graham (Garth) McKenzie, Max (Tangles) Walker
or if you want a left armer, Gary Gilmour.

  There is no way that Simpson would be captain ahead of Ian Chappell.
Ian Chappell was a simply brilliant captain - a good tactician and
motivator.

  So, that gives us:

Bob Simpson
Bill Lawry
Ian Chappell  (c)
Greg Chappell
Norman O'Neill
Doug Walters
Rod Marsh     (wk)
Dennis Lillee
Jeff Thomson
Ashley Mallett
Graham McKenzie
Gary Gilmour (12th man)

  Proviso that if Benaud and/or Davidson were still playing in 1964
then bring them in for Mallett/McKenzie.  If Benaud was in the team
he would give Chappelli a good run for the captaincy.

  NB: Simpson (legspin), I. Chappell (legspin), G. Chappell (medium)
and Walters (slow-medium) were all useful bowlers.

-------


Israel              "Lillee running in, hair blowing, shirt flapping,
                     over the wicket,......He's bowled him!!"

 
 
 

1964-1982 - Boycott's greatest English Test team

Post by David Wheel » Thu, 29 Apr 1993 14:50:56

Quote:

>  So, that gives us:

>Bob Simpson
>Bill Lawry
>Ian Chappell  (c)
>Greg Chappell
>Norman O'Neill
>Doug Walters
>Rod Marsh     (wk)
>Dennis Lillee
>Jeff Thomson
>Ashley Mallett
>Graham McKenzie
>Gary Gilmour (12th man)

Very, very close to the Australian team that I prepared last night.  You
mentioned all the same players I thought of, with the exception of Ian
Redpath.  I guess I needn't bother posting mine now :-)

Quote:
>  Proviso that if Benaud and/or Davidson were still playing in 1964
>then bring them in for Mallett/McKenzie.  If Benaud was in the team
>he would give Chappell a good run for the captaincy.

Davidson retired in 1963, Benaud after the 1963-64 series against South
Africa, so neither is eligible as their Test careers didn't overlap with
Geoff Boycott's, which is the criterion (I started this off, so I'll make
the rules, dammit... :-) )  You're right, though; it would otherwise have
been impossible to exclude either of them.

-----------------------------------------------------------
David A. Wheeler, Motorola Ltd., Camberley, Surrey, England

 
 
 

1964-1982 - Boycott's greatest English Test team

Post by Bala » Fri, 30 Apr 1993 02:09:13

Quote:


>>Australia:

>>Bobby Simpson (c)
>>Keith Stackpole
>>Ian Chappell
>>Norman O'Neill
>>Greg Chappell
>>Doug Walters
>>Allan Border
>>Rod Marsh (w) [maybe Wally Grout? Naah...]
>>Alan Davidson
>>Dennis Lillee
>>? Thomson (I've forgotten Thommo's first name?)
>>12th man: Paul Sheahan (but would they let him field at cover?)

>>This team is of course to play at Perth or Brisbane, hence no spinners.
>>O what a slip field!

>  I think that you'll find that Australian sides from 1964-1982 always
>played at least one specialist spinner, regardless of the ground.

Well, I've watched Mallett against India in the great days of Indian
spin, so Mallett didn't look too hot in comparison. If there has to be
a spinner, though, I guess it has to be him. Unless... wasn't there an
unorthodox leggie of about the same vintage?

Quote:
>  This team has 7 specialist batsmen.  That's 1 too many.  Out goes
>AB whose domination has been mainly after 1982.  From memory his debut

By the same logic, you have to leave out O'Neill, whose great days were
*before* 1964. If you're talking only Ozzies who had their best years
coeval with Boycott, then you end up with a team that's basically one of
the great Chappelli sides of the mid-70s, except maybe for the openers.
BTW who *did* open the batting for Australia during, say, the 74-75
England tour or the even more memorable 5-1 drubbing of the 75-76
Windies?

And while on the subj. of openers, I still prefer Stackpole to Lawry,
lefty or no. But I grant you Chappell as captain.

No comments from anyone on my Windies team?

Balaji

 
 
 

1964-1982 - Boycott's greatest English Test team

Post by MANE VEMB » Fri, 30 Apr 1993 03:07:00

Quote:

>Well, I've watched Mallett against India in the great days of Indian
>spin, so Mallett didn't look too hot in comparison. If there has to be
>a spinner, though, I guess it has to be him. Unless... wasn't there an
>unorthodox leggie of about the same vintage?

Wasn't Mallett an off spinner? During the late '60s and '70s he was a
regular on the team.
.
.
.

Quote:
>BTW who *did* open the batting for Australia during, say, the 74-75
>England tour or the even more memorable 5-1 drubbing of the 75-76
>Windies?

Some names that come to my mind are: Julian Weiner (didn't play too many
tests), Rick McCosker, Ian Davis, Alan Turner, Wessels, Redpath (think
played against England in 74-75), Ross Edwards......

Quote:
>And while on the subj. of openers, I still prefer Stackpole to Lawry,
>lefty or no. But I grant you Chappell as captain.
>No comments from anyone on my Windies team?
>Balaji

Mani Vembar

 
 
 

1964-1982 - Boycott's greatest English Test team

Post by Guy L Debel » Fri, 30 Apr 1993 07:43:40

|>
|> Well, I've watched Mallett against India in the great days of Indian
|> spin, so Mallett didn't look too hot in comparison. If there has to be
|> a spinner, though, I guess it has to be him. Unless... wasn't there an
|> unorthodox leggie of about the same vintage?

Rowdy Mallett always was a good foil for the pace barrage at the other end and a great gully
fieldsmen.  However he was a disgrace with the bat.  He had a frequent habit of letting go of
the bat completely when playing shots, endangering the close-in fieldsmen (of whom there were
generally a lot when he was in).  I suppose that's one way of getting them out of there.

Terry Jenner was a leggie at the same time, but not hugely effective.

|>
|> >  This team has 7 specialist batsmen.  That's 1 too many.  Out goes
|> >AB whose domination has been mainly after 1982.  From memory his debut

AB used to carry the batting side during the Packer years, coming in at No.6 and making 50 or
so not out before running out of partners.

|>
|> By the same logic, you have to leave out O'Neill, whose great days were
|> *before* 1964. If you're talking only Ozzies who had their best years
|> coeval with Boycott, then you end up with a team that's basically one of
|> the great Chappelli sides of the mid-70s, except maybe for the openers.
|> BTW who *did* open the batting for Australia during, say, the 74-75
|> England tour or the even more memorable 5-1 drubbing of the 75-76
|> Windies?

Ian Redpath and Alan Turner opened during the 74-75 England tour and I'm pretty sure also
during the 75-76 tour.  McCosker may have come in some time around then because he was well
and truly in the
side by the Centenary test in 1977.

Guy

 
 
 

1964-1982 - Boycott's greatest English Test team

Post by Ron Se » Sat, 01 May 1993 12:41:57



|> |> BTW who *did* open the batting for Australia during, say, the 74-75
|> |> England tour or the even more memorable 5-1 drubbing of the 75-76
|> |> Windies?
|>
|> Ian Redpath and Alan Turner opened during the 74-75 England tour and I'm pretty sure also
|> during the 75-76 tour.  McCosker may have come in some time around then because he was well
|> and truly in the
|> side by the Centenary test in 1977.
|>
|> Guy

As I recall, Alan Turner and Jeff Thomson were involved in a mid-pitch collision
attempting a catch during the 5th Test at the Adelaide Oval. Turner was fielding
at forward short leg and I think the batsman was Greenidge. Both players were
injured - McCosker probably replaced Turner in the 6th Test.

Back on the subject of Australian leg-spinners, had Richie Benaud retired by
1964? If not, I would have him in the 64-82 Oz team, and a serious challenger
to Chappelli for the captaincy.

Cheers,

Ron

 
 
 

1964-1982 - Boycott's greatest English Test team

Post by Rob McMill » Sat, 01 May 1993 13:03:29


Quote:
> Rowdy Mallett always was a good foil for the pace barrage at the other end and a great gully
> fieldsmen.  However he was a disgrace with the bat.  He had a frequent habit of letting go of
> the bat completely when playing shots, endangering the close-in fieldsmen (of whom there were
> generally a lot when he was in).  I suppose that's one way of getting them out of there.

According to Ian Chappell's book he used to quite intentionally let go of
the bat after playing the shot, not during (and thus endangering fieldsmen).

Quote:
> AB used to carry the batting side during the Packer years, coming in at No.6 and making 50 or
> so not out before running out of partners.

Nope. AB played only about 10 Tests during the Packer years (77-79). He made
his debut midway through Australia's disastrous 78-79 series against England,
continued on against Pakistan in the same Summer, and toured with Australia in
1979. He may well have been at No 6 at this point - I can't remember - it would
certainly seem to have been the place for him to be. I wouldn't say he carried
the side, but he certainly did have his share of success at this stage.

By 1979-80, the Packer players were back. Border was still in the Test team,
batting at Number 3. In this period, particularly in the first test against the
Windies, he wasn't in crash-hot form, and there was some speculation at that
point that he could be dropped. From there, he's never looked back.

Quote:
> Ian Redpath and Alan Turner opened during the 74-75 England tour and I'm pretty sure also
> during the 75-76 tour.  McCosker may have come in some time around then because he was well
> and truly in the
> side by the Centenary test in 1977.

> Guy

I think McCosker came in during 74-75. He certainly was opening on the 75 tour
to England. I think he had 80* in the abandoned test and scored his maiden
international century in the next one. (My memory could be a bit faulty here).

The openers around this period were the three mentioned above, plus Ian Davis a
bit later on (about '76). I don't think Redpath was really opening for
Victoria, and had been stuffed about by the selectors. In his book, Chappelli
says that he was impressed with Redpath for taking on the job.

Wally Edwards also got a run in 74-75, but never really grabbed hold of his
opportunities. It was he that McCosker replaced after 3(?) tests.

--
Rob.

 
 
 

1964-1982 - Boycott's greatest English Test team

Post by Dimitrios Papadopoul » Sat, 01 May 1993 13:53:23

Quote:



>|> |> BTW who *did* open the batting for Australia during, say, the 74-75
>|> |> England tour or the even more memorable 5-1 drubbing of the 75-76
>|> |> Windies?
>|>
>|> Ian Redpath and Alan Turner opened during the 74-75 England tour and I'm pretty sure also
>|> during the 75-76 tour.  McCosker may have come in some time around then because he was well
>|> and truly in the
>|> side by the Centenary test in 1977.
>|>
>|> Guy

>As I recall, Alan Turner and Jeff Thomson were involved in a mid-pitch collision
>attempting a catch during the 5th Test at the Adelaide Oval. Turner was fielding
>at forward short leg and I think the batsman was Greenidge. Both players were

wasn't zaheer the batsman who mishooked a Thommo bouncer and going for the
catch Thomson collided with Turner and infact dislocated his shoulder.

--Pushkar

- Show quoted text -

Quote:
>injured - McCosker probably replaced Turner in the 6th Test.

>Back on the subject of Australian leg-spinners, had Richie Benaud retired by
>1964? If not, I would have him in the 64-82 Oz team, and a serious challenger
>to Chappelli for the captaincy.

>Cheers,

>Ron

 
 
 

1964-1982 - Boycott's greatest English Test team

Post by Rob McMill » Sat, 01 May 1993 14:43:29

Quote:

> As I recall, Alan Turner and Jeff Thomson were involved in a mid-pitch collision
> attempting a catch during the 5th Test at the Adelaide Oval. Turner was fielding
> at forward short leg and I think the batsman was Greenidge. Both players were
> injured - McCosker probably replaced Turner in the 6th Test.

Wasn't it those two involved also when Thommo busted his shoulder in 76-77 (I
think it was).

Quote:
> Back on the subject of Australian leg-spinners, had Richie Benaud retired by
> 1964? If not, I would have him in the 64-82 Oz team, and a serious challenger
> to Chappelli for the captaincy.

I've a feeling he retired in 1963. (Before I was born).

Quote:
> Cheers,

> Ron

--
Rob.
 
 
 

1964-1982 - Boycott's greatest English Test team

Post by Sanjiva Pras » Fri, 30 Apr 1993 23:33:57


|
|>Well, I've watched Mallett against India in the great days of Indian
|>spin, so Mallett didn't look too hot in comparison. If there has to be
|>a spinner, though, I guess it has to be him. Unless... wasn't there an
|>unorthodox leggie of about the same vintage?
|
|Wasn't Mallett an off spinner? During the late '60s and '70s he was a
|regular on the team.

Yes, Mallett was an offie.  But the OP asked whether there wasn't an
unorthodox leggie in the team.  There sure was, Jackie Gleason, tweaker
sans pareil.

---

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1964-1982 - Boycott's greatest English Test team

Post by Anthony Walle » Mon, 03 May 1993 18:53:24


Seto) says:
Quote:

>As I recall, Alan Turner and Jeff Thomson were involved in a mid-pitch        n
>collision attempting a catch during the 5th Test at the Adelaide Oval.
>Turner was fielding at forward short leg and I think the batsman was
>Greenidge. Both players were injured - McCosker probably replaced Turner
>in the 6th Test.

  The only collision I remember between Turner and Thommo was in the
1st (I think) test against Pakistan the following Aussie summer (76-77).
Thommo had a great previous 2 summers against the Poms and the Windies
and was in excellent form going into the series aginst Pakistan.
I don't think that he ever retained the fearsome pace that he had then
when he returned from the injury that he sustained from that collision.

  I was watching that test live on TV and can still remember seeing
Zaheer (I think) mistiming a pull, Thommo running back to try and
catch the ball, Turner running in from mid-on....ouch!

-------


Israel              "Lillee running in, hair blowing, shirt flapping,
                     over the wicket,......He's bowled him!!"