Is Lara any better ? (than Ponting, Ranatunga etc.,)

Is Lara any better ? (than Ponting, Ranatunga etc.,)

Post by Ravi Aro » Sat, 14 Aug 1999 04:00:00


I read some of the posts on the Mr.*** sweepstakes. While (IMO) Rantunga
is slightly ahead of Ponting, we seem to have forgotten Lara's infamous
remark.

When the WC was held in India, WI (iirc) defeated RSA in a match that ran
counter to pundit expectations and lost to Kenya. Lara made an unforgivable
remark, the ugliest I've ever known any cricketer to have ever made,
something about loosing to RSA would be terrible because of what the latter
had done to Blacks while Kenya was after all a fraternal country. This reeks
of the worst kind of racism to me.  Lets take a moment to examine what the
man said - that he clearly thinks of cricket matches as Black Vs. White
gladiatorial tournaments, that he cannot see beyond the race of his
opponents and that it is OK wish a team ill because it is (in the main)
composed of a race that he is not particularly fond of. And of course, all
the apostles of racial justice remained tightlipped (MAK being a shining
exception). I would have banned him for the rest of tournament and moved ICC
for a lifetime ban. Dalmiya was too busy plundering the BCCI's treasury via
the company "Half moon services" and Lele was busy doing his master's
laundry.  I believe that Lara expressed regret for his statements two days
after his foul mouthed utterances were made. Meanwhile we weep and wail
about Ponting being ejected from a nightclub in Calcutta and Donald sledging
Dravid. Why these double standards?
I mean think of this - if Geoff Boycot or Alan B. or Mike Dennis or
Chappell-i had said "loosing to the Aussies (or Eng.)  is ok, they are a
fraternal country, but loosing to those awful brownies who've migrated to
our country in hordes - those Pakis or Indians would be horrible...".  Think
of what effect this statement would have. They would have swung from the
nearest tree and the cricketing world would have called for an immediate
boycott of the Caucasian offenders. Meanwhile the Laras and the Farrakhans
walk away from the sulfurous statements they make about others.

ravi (thinks Lara is a tremendous batsman and disgrace to cricket) aron.

 
 
 

Is Lara any better ? (than Ponting, Ranatunga etc.,)

Post by stereoty » Sat, 14 Aug 1999 04:00:00

On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 01:48:56 -0400, "Ravi Aron"

Quote:

>When the WC was held in India, WI (iirc) defeated RSA in a match that ran
>counter to pundit expectations and lost to Kenya. Lara made an unforgivable
>remark, the ugliest I've ever known any cricketer to have ever made,
>something about loosing to RSA would be terrible because of what the latter
>had done to Blacks while Kenya was after all a fraternal country. This reeks
>of the worst kind of racism to me.

Racism that has been perpetrated on African nations since the 1500's.
Are you bagging him because he has a long memory? I didn't see
England, Australia or New Zealand suffering at the hands of
colonialism, did you? Ther natives sure did though. Are you saying he
should ignore racist acts perpetrated on africans and indigenous
people elsewhere in the world just for cricket? Should he forget
Voerster etc just for cricket? Wouldn't that be ignoring the history
of his own country etc.

Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves, Britain never never shall
be slaves.

Sure, the poms invented cricket, they did something right, we can all
agree there. But expecting that Brian Lara should forget the history
of his country and the countries his descendants come from is
barabarism. Just forget that and get on with playing cricket right?
Who is the racist here? Brian Lara or you? I think it's you.

Quote:
> Lets take a moment to examine what the
>man said - that he clearly thinks of cricket matches as Black Vs. White
>gladiatorial tournaments, that he cannot see beyond the race of his
>opponents and that it is OK wish a team ill because it is (in the main)
>composed of a race that he is not particularly fond of.

He didn't say that. What he meant (I believe) when he said it (if he
said it) is that cricket is not everything and he cannot be expected
to forget the history of his people just for a game of cricket. He's
got a long memory sure, but the acts that were perpetrated on his
people would take a bit of forgetting. Expecting him to forget
everything in the name of diplomacy is impossible. What's wrong with a
bit of honesty? I don't think South Africans (or you) have the right
to expect Lara to forget history and just get on with playing cricket.
Do you forget that it is only the 1992 world cup that RSA came back
into international cricket after a 20 year break?

Quote:
> And of course, all
>the apostles of racial justice remained tightlipped (MAK being a shining
>exception). I would have banned him for the rest of tournament and moved ICC
>for a lifetime ban. Dalmiya was too busy plundering the BCCI's treasury via
>the company "Half moon services" and Lele was busy doing his master's
>laundry.  I believe that Lara expressed regret for his statements two days
>after his foul mouthed utterances were made. Meanwhile we weep and wail
>about Ponting being ejected from a nightclub in Calcutta and Donald sledging
>Dravid. Why these double standards?

They aren't double standards. It could be seen as a double standard,
providing those complaining of double standards suffered the same
treatment. They didn't.

Quote:
>I mean think of this - if Geoff Boycot or Alan B. or Mike Dennis or
>Chappell-i had said "loosing to the Aussies (or Eng.)  is ok, they are a
>fraternal country, but loosing to those awful brownies who've migrated to
>our country in hordes - those Pakis or Indians would be horrible...".

They wouldn't say that, they'd have no right to say it, it would be
racist. Brian Lara had a right to say what he said. Until the early
90's RSA was a racist country where an 18% minority controlled the
parliament and routinely ***ed innocent citizens.

Quote:
>  Think
>of what effect this statement would have. They would have swung from the
>nearest tree and the cricketing world would have called for an immediate
>boycott of the Caucasian offenders. Meanwhile the Laras and the Farrakhans
>walk away from the sulfurous statements they make about others.

Why are they ludicrous simply because they are truthful?

Quote:

>ravi (thinks Lara is a tremendous batsman and disgrace to cricket) aron.

And your cultural and historical ignorance knows no bounds.

stereotype
-----------
When the white man came we had the land and they had the Bible. They taught us to pray with our eyes closed and when we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible.
Jomo Kenyatta

 
 
 

Is Lara any better ? (than Ponting, Ranatunga etc.,)

Post by Kurt Toolsi » Sat, 14 Aug 1999 04:00:00

I do not see how Lara can be accused of being racist. He clearly drew
a distinction between the South Africa of the time and other teams of a
racial composition similar to that South African team. Thus if he had said
something along the lines of : I hate loing to SA, Eng or AUS because
they are white, I would have agreed with your analysis. It seems more to
me that he harbored some resentment of the South African team not
because of their race, but because of the recent policies of their nation.

You may equally well accuse Jesse Owen of being racist for being particularly
motivated to suceed at the Olympics held in Nazi Germany, prior to WW2.

That is not to say that Lara's comments were in good taste. Certainly they were
not diplomatic. However, you are jumping to conclusions based not on the words
that he uttered but on how they were perceived. As you feel so strongly on this
issue, I am sure you can provide an exact quotation of what was actually said.

Personally, I was disappointed at Lara's comments, though I can empathize with
his thoughts. I thought his dispute with the WI physio on the flight home was a
much bigger disgrace than the incident you refer to.

Kurt

Quote:

> I read some of the posts on the Mr.*** sweepstakes. While (IMO) Rantunga
> is slightly ahead of Ponting, we seem to have forgotten Lara's infamous
> remark.

> When the WC was held in India, WI (iirc) defeated RSA in a match that ran
> counter to pundit expectations and lost to Kenya. Lara made an unforgivable
> remark, the ugliest I've ever known any cricketer to have ever made,
> something about loosing to RSA would be terrible because of what the latter
> had done to Blacks while Kenya was after all a fraternal country. This reeks
> of the worst kind of racism to me.  Lets take a moment to examine what the
> man said - that he clearly thinks of cricket matches as Black Vs. White
> gladiatorial tournaments, that he cannot see beyond the race of his
> opponents and that it is OK wish a team ill because it is (in the main)
> composed of a race that he is not particularly fond of. And of course, all
> the apostles of racial justice remained tightlipped (MAK being a shining
> exception). I would have banned him for the rest of tournament and moved ICC
> for a lifetime ban. Dalmiya was too busy plundering the BCCI's treasury via
> the company "Half moon services" and Lele was busy doing his master's
> laundry.  I believe that Lara expressed regret for his statements two days
> after his foul mouthed utterances were made. Meanwhile we weep and wail
> about Ponting being ejected from a nightclub in Calcutta and Donald sledging
> Dravid. Why these double standards?
> I mean think of this - if Geoff Boycot or Alan B. or Mike Dennis or
> Chappell-i had said "loosing to the Aussies (or Eng.)  is ok, they are a
> fraternal country, but loosing to those awful brownies who've migrated to
> our country in hordes - those Pakis or Indians would be horrible...".  Think
> of what effect this statement would have. They would have swung from the
> nearest tree and the cricketing world would have called for an immediate
> boycott of the Caucasian offenders. Meanwhile the Laras and the Farrakhans
> walk away from the sulfurous statements they make about others.

> ravi (thinks Lara is a tremendous batsman and disgrace to cricket) aron.


 
 
 

Is Lara any better ? (than Ponting, Ranatunga etc.,)

Post by Aneesh Pate » Sat, 14 Aug 1999 04:00:00


Quote:
> I read some of the posts on the Mr.*** sweepstakes. While (IMO) Rantunga
> is slightly ahead of Ponting, we seem to have forgotten Lara's infamous
> remark.

> When the WC was held in India, WI (iirc) defeated RSA in a match that ran
> counter to pundit expectations and lost to Kenya. Lara made an unforgivable
> remark, the ugliest I've ever known any cricketer to have ever made,
> something about loosing to RSA would be terrible because of what the latter
> had done to Blacks while Kenya was after all a fraternal country. This reeks
> of the worst kind of racism to me.
> [ranting and raving snipped]
> Meanwhile the Laras and the Farrakhans
> walk away from the sulfurous statements they make about others.

Why are you lumping Brian Lara in the same category as Farrakhan? He is a bit of
a prima donna, but he is hardly a purveyor of hatred and intolerance. You could
make a better--though just as grossly unfair--case that Lance Klusener supported
apartheid-- after all, he served in the infamous South African 'Defense' Forces
during the DeKlerk regime, did he not?

--- Aneesh (who is losing patience with people like mr. aron, who equate Lara
and Ponting).

Quote:

> ravi (thinks Lara is a tremendous batsman and disgrace to cricket) aron.

 
 
 

Is Lara any better ? (than Ponting, Ranatunga etc.,)

Post by Rames » Sun, 15 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Just a reminder : Lara is a Trinidadian,  Trinidad is the most multi-racial,
diversified, multi-cultural country in the world (well, Jackson Heights is
the number one, but it is not a country).  No Trinidadian should ever be
compared to Farrakan et al, it is impossible. Lara, like Viv, and like all
of us, are entitled to remember and voice our opinions.  And, on any issue:
apartheid in SA, slavery, the colonial days in India, Africa, the West
Indies, Nazism, whatever.  History is NOT bunk, never will be.


Quote:



>> I read some of the posts on the Mr.*** sweepstakes. While (IMO)
Rantunga
>> is slightly ahead of Ponting, we seem to have forgotten Lara's infamous
>> remark.

>> When the WC was held in India, WI (iirc) defeated RSA in a match that ran
>> counter to pundit expectations and lost to Kenya. Lara made an
unforgivable
>> remark, the ugliest I've ever known any cricketer to have ever made,
>> something about loosing to RSA would be terrible because of what the
latter
>> had done to Blacks while Kenya was after all a fraternal country. This
reeks
>> of the worst kind of racism to me.
>> [ranting and raving snipped]
>> Meanwhile the Laras and the Farrakhans
>> walk away from the sulfurous statements they make about others.

>Why are you lumping Brian Lara in the same category as Farrakhan? He is a
bit of
>a prima donna, but he is hardly a purveyor of hatred and intolerance. You
could
>make a better--though just as grossly unfair--case that Lance Klusener
supported
>apartheid-- after all, he served in the infamous South African 'Defense'
Forces
>during the DeKlerk regime, did he not?

>--- Aneesh (who is losing patience with people like mr. aron, who equate
Lara
>and Ponting).

>> ravi (thinks Lara is a tremendous batsman and disgrace to cricket) aron.

 
 
 

Is Lara any better ? (than Ponting, Ranatunga etc.,)

Post by Ravi Aro » Sun, 15 Aug 1999 04:00:00


Quote:
> Just a reminder : Lara is a Trinidadian,  Trinidad is the most
multi-racial,
> diversified, multi-cultural country in the world (well, Jackson Heights is
> the number one, but it is not a country).

Disagree. The US (thans to Jackson heights (-:) has won that match and
collected the trophy long ago.

Quote:
>No Trinidadian should ever be
> compared to Farrakan et al,

Since Farrakhan, who is American, is a bigoted demagogue and a racist,
there's no reason to believe (sadly) that anybody from any country is immune
to this affliction.

Quote:
> it is impossible. Lara, like Viv, and like all
> of us, are entitled to remember and voice our opinions.  And, on any
issue:
> apartheid in SA, slavery, the colonial days in India, Africa, the West
> Indies, Nazism, whatever.

Of course we are all entitled to voice our opinions. Even Farrakhan, the
guttersnipe that he is,  is entitled to his opinions. What we have to ensure
is that the forum at which we make those statements is appropriate. If Lara
had written an Op-Ed piece or had made those statements at a bar in Port of
Spain, I will have no bones to pick with him (save for the fact he is
ignorant). However, he has no business to say these things during  a WC
tournament. For instance, Israeli outrage and anguish at the slaughter of
their athletes in the Munich Olympics, an event paid for by Muslim money
from the Arab middle east,  is well known and entirely understandable. But
that does not give any Israeli player the right to say - before or after
say, a 1500 meter track event, that he thinks that the Arabs are barbarians.
Or for that matter,  Muralitharan may feel that the Aussies are racist, but
he cannot make that statement during or immediately after a test match while
on Aussie soil (unless he was commenting on a specific event during the
match, where his statement was necessary to explain some person's behavior
during the match). If he were to make the same comment after the series is
over, to the press (or at somebody's dinner table), he would be exercising
his right to hold (absurd) opinions and air them. Would you find it
acceptable if Tendulkar or Akram were to call Pak/India as terrorists/bully
immediately after a test while a tour is on?
The issue is not about the historical accuracy or the logical consistency of
Lara's statements but whether a WC tournament is an appropriate venue for
airing, private, incoherent rage at opposing teams. There are rules that
need be followed, more so when you are touring a foreign country, to ensure
that the tour does not degenerate into a mud slinging contest.

Quote:
>History is NOT bunk, never will be.

Neither is Geography (-: Lara was in India and not in his backyard.

ravi (and BTW, if Lara did a read a little bit of (non-cultural)
Anthropology, he'd realize that RSA and indeed Trinidad, India, Indonesia
and most of the world are all in the same boat, just that our 'crimes'
happened at different points in time) aron.

Quote:





> >> I read some of the posts on the Mr.*** sweepstakes. While (IMO)
> Rantunga
> >> is slightly ahead of Ponting, we seem to have forgotten Lara's infamous
> >> remark.

> >> When the WC was held in India, WI (iirc) defeated RSA in a match that
ran
> >> counter to pundit expectations and lost to Kenya. Lara made an
> unforgivable
> >> remark, the ugliest I've ever known any cricketer to have ever made,
> >> something about loosing to RSA would be terrible because of what the
> latter
> >> had done to Blacks while Kenya was after all a fraternal country. This
> reeks
> >> of the worst kind of racism to me.
> >> [ranting and raving snipped]
> >> Meanwhile the Laras and the Farrakhans
> >> walk away from the sulfurous statements they make about others.

> >Why are you lumping Brian Lara in the same category as Farrakhan? He is a
> bit of
> >a prima donna, but he is hardly a purveyor of hatred and intolerance. You
> could
> >make a better--though just as grossly unfair--case that Lance Klusener
> supported
> >apartheid-- after all, he served in the infamous South African 'Defense'
> Forces
> >during the DeKlerk regime, did he not?

> >--- Aneesh (who is losing patience with people like mr. aron, who equate
> Lara
> >and Ponting).

> >> ravi (thinks Lara is a tremendous batsman and disgrace to cricket)
aron.