India's All-Time Test XI

India's All-Time Test XI

Post by Sadiq Yus » Sun, 28 Mar 1993 11:55:41


        Well, typed this in years ago. Even sent it in, it bounced back.
Forgot all about it until now - for some reason I thought it had gone into
rsc sometime. Sorry about this , all you voters on this :-)

                        Sadiq [ the late returning officer ] Yusuf

Newsgroups:AA rec.sport.cricket
Subject: India's All-Time Test XI ( IRC Vote )
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        Well, have been stretched thin over the last few days, so havent
been able to read (let alone write) to rsc. During the 3rd test match, at
lunch on like the 4th day or so, we voted on a all-time India test XI. I
was given the task of broadcasting this team to the world . So, here goes.

        The team is:
Gavaskar
Merchant
Vengsarkar
Vishwanath
Azhar
Mankad
Kapil
Kirmani
Prasanna
Mohd. Nissar
Chandra

        Its a team slightly biased towards the present, obviously. This is
because I believe most of us never saw the great players of old, and are
going on sketchy details. Still, it _was_ a popular vote :-)
        Some of the positions are obviously filled easily, but there was
contentious debate on others :-) The middle order gave us heaps of trouble,
before these 3 won their way in.
        By order, there was some talk of going with Engineer to open
instead of Merchant and no Kiri, which would increase the options, but we
decided against that. Merchant played only 10 tests ( they didnt play many
in those days), but was considered one of the best bats to ever represent
India ( 3 tons in 10 tests, avg of 47 +), and did it all on uncovered
pitches too.
        The middle order had Tendulkar suggested and rejected on the
grounds of insufficient evidence - only 1000 runs so far and not played
enough or against everyone I suppose.
        There were suggestions of Vijay Manjrekar, Pataudi, Sardesai,
Umrigar, and Hazare, but I guess lack of familiarity killed their chances.
It was the closest of the votes tho. Jimmy also voted down, BTW.
        Nissar made it over Amar Singh - no other competition seriously
considered.
        One of the hardest was leaving out Bedi - he may be the best
left-armer ever !! But we decided Mankad wasnt much worse, and was a
terrific bat to boot - a genuine all-rounder.
        Pras got in in a walk. There was some discussion about Gupte for
Chandra, but was voted down.

        Personal view. I checked some stats on getting home, and also
talked to a professor here (thanks, professor Tamhane :-) ) who knows more
about these players than I do. Might vote differently on a few things
myself, if I had to do it again.
        First, there HAS to be a place found for Vijay Hazare !!! I checked
his stats, terrific. He played 30 tests, had 7 tons at an average of 46 +.
That happens to be higher than Azhar , Vengsarkar and Vishy !!! ( Ahead of
V'kar and Vishy by about 5 runs/inning !!!). And he played some tremendous
knocks against Trueman and co too, supposedly the ONLY Indian bat who got
runs against him ( even Umrigar was supposedly a rabbit against that pace,
he came around only later and scored in WI v/s Hall and co). Supposedly
India's backbone for years - easily the most reliable bat of the side. I
havent thought about it, but would have to have him in place of one of the
other 3 (tho it would be a wrench - thats why I havent thought about it:-))
        Then, was told that Bedi was easily better than Mankad, but its
hard to argue against the allrounder logic. We could go with both , that
would have to be considered. We voted on the basis of variety too tho,
which is why Bedi didnt make it. Else, he might make it ahead of Pras or
Chandra on pure spinner merit ( just guessing here, no flames please :-) )
        Finally, was told that Gupte might be preferable to Chandra !!! I
checked Gupte's stats , and they're pretty much hot stuff - far better than
I had suspected. 36 tests, almost 150 wickets. And ,was told that while
Chandra was tremendous, he wasnt always consistent. He could run thru a
side but also had poor games. Gupte was a classical leggie - the vivid
imagery used was that he seemed to have a string attached to the ball, and
seemed to jerk it around and make the batsman dance whenever he wanted. An
absolute master. One fault might have been that he might not have been able
to take punishment, but that didnt happen often enough for the theory to be
tested :-)
        In conclusion, it's a pretty darned good team :-) There is the
possiblity of some other players making it, but thats what makes these
discussions fun :-)

                        Sadiq [ scribe in a hurry ] Yusuf

 
 
 

India's All-Time Test XI

Post by Neeran M. Karn » Wed, 31 Mar 1993 09:47:31

Quote:

>Gavaskar
>Merchant
>Vengsarkar
>Vishwanath
>Azhar
>Mankad
>Kapil
>Kirmani
>Prasanna
>Mohd. Nissar
>Chandra

        Sadiq, I was getting all primed up to flame you for omitting
        Hazare, but then you talked about Hazare below and spoiled the
        mood :-)

Quote:
>contentious debate on others :-) The middle order gave us heaps of trouble,
>before these 3 won their way in.

        Vishy should waltz in, but I'm not sure about Vengsarkar and
        Azhar....

Quote:
>    By order, there was some talk of going with Engineer to open
>instead of Merchant and no Kiri, which would increase the options, but we
>decided against that. Merchant played only 10 tests ( they didnt play many
>in those days), but was considered one of the best bats to ever represent
>India ( 3 tons in 10 tests, avg of 47 +), and did it all on uncovered
>pitches too.

        These are definitely strong reasons for Merchant's inclusion,
        but IMHO, he competes with Gavaskar for the #1 spot in the
        team. And Gavaskar clearly wins. It might indeed be useful to
        open with an attacking batsman like Engineer/Kunderan who could
        double as wicketkeeper, but keeping Kiri out of an all-time
        Indian XI would be as much of an injustice as was done unto him
        in his career. Kirmani ended up as India's most productive
        keeper with the big gloves (198 victims) as well as the small
        gloves (2700+ runs at ~27), and thus makes his way into the
        team pretty handily.

Quote:
>    There were suggestions of Vijay Manjrekar, Pataudi, Sardesai,
>Umrigar, and Hazare, but I guess lack of familiarity killed their chances.

        Of the above, Hazare *must* find a place (as your Prof. Tamhane
        no doubt convinced you later) :-) but the others will be
        hard-pressed to ease out either of Vengy/Azhar.

Quote:
>    Nissar made it over Amar Singh - no other competition seriously
>considered.

        None ever existed, really :-) Only Ramakant Desai came close as
        an opening bowler, to the class of these two.

Quote:
>    One of the hardest was leaving out Bedi - he may be the best
>left-armer ever !! But we decided Mankad wasnt much worse, and was a
>terrific bat to boot - a genuine all-rounder.

        Indeed, a controversial choice :-) Two all-rounders in a Test
        XI? Perhaps a bit of a luxury, even given the batting talents
        of Mankad. An alternative in the #6 slot could be C.K.Nayudu or
        Vijay Manjrekar, but I'd rather see Bedi in the side as an
        extra bowler.

Quote:
>    In conclusion, it's a pretty darned good team :-) There is the
>possiblity of some other players making it, but thats what makes these
>discussions fun :-)

        Sure does :-)

Quote:
>                    Sadiq [ scribe in a hurry ] Yusuf

     +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
     | Neeran M. Karnik | #2 fan of Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar on r.s.c.  :-> |
     | Dept. of CompSci.| "Pele in football, Becker in tennis, Ali in      |
     | U of Minnesota   | boxing. Sachin is in that league." - Tony Cozier |
     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 
 
 

India's All-Time Test XI

Post by k.s.sri ram.naray » Wed, 31 Mar 1993 06:39:36

Quote:

> some stuff deleted....

>    The team is:
> Gavaskar
> Merchant
> Vengsarkar
> Vishwanath
> Azhar
> Mankad
> Kapil
> Kirmani
> Prasanna
> Mohd. Nissar
> Chandra

>    Personal view. I checked some stats on getting home, and also
> talked to a professor here (thanks, professor Tamhane :-) ) who knows more
> about these players than I do. Might vote differently on a few things
> myself, if I had to do it again.
>    First, there HAS to be a place found for Vijay Hazare !!! I checked
> his stats, terrific. He played 30 tests, had 7 tons at an average of 46 +.
> That happens to be higher than Azhar , Vengsarkar and Vishy !!! ( Ahead of
> V'kar and Vishy by about 5 runs/inning !!!). And he played some tremendous
> knocks against Trueman and co too, supposedly the ONLY Indian bat who got
> runs against him ( even Umrigar was supposedly a rabbit against that pace,
> he came around only later and scored in WI v/s Hall and co). Supposedly
> India's backbone for years - easily the most reliable bat of the side. I
> havent thought about it, but would have to have him in place of one of the
> other 3 (tho it would be a wrench - thats why I havent thought about it:-))

I agree entirely with you about Hazare. From everything I've read and
and been told about Hazare, there is only one Indian batsman I would
put higher than him: (Selfish) Sunny Gavaskar :-). From what I remember,
Hazare had it all: flawless technique against all types of bowling, an
excellent temperament and the ability to concentrate for long periods.
He was a useful change bowler too (medium-pace).

Some notable feats of Hazare's that I can dredge up from my recalcitrant
memory (no doubt to be corrected by the net.statisticians :-)):
He got a century in each innings against Australia at Adelaide in 1947.
Bradman was the Australian captain and the attack comprised
Lindwall, Miller, Johnston (left-arm medium) and Toshack (spin). This
same attack destroyed England in 1948, so a hundred in each innings was
a notable feat, though the Adelaide wicket was considered a featherbed in
those times. (Shades of FWFB??)
(Tangent mode on: among others, I believe Dennis Compton, Arthur
Morris, the Don himself and Kanhai all made two centuries in a Test at
Adelaide. This is purely from memory, so no flames please... Tangent mode
off).
To date, I believe he is the only Indian batsman with a ton in each
innings, other than Gavaskar (of course) who did it three times.
(Chandu Borde came very close with 109 and 96 against WI in the
sixties). In the series against England that Sadiq referred to
(probably 1952), Hazare was one of the few Indian batsmen to play
 Trueman with any confidence. I know the English attack included
Bedser, who was a wonderful fast-medium bowler, then at the height of
his powers. In one test India was reduced to 0 for 4, yes that's 4
down for no runs, before Hazare rescued India with a knock of 56.
There was another half century under similar circumstances on the same
tour. All in all, batting of tremendous character under extremely adverse
circumstances.

The point of this polemic is that IMHO at least, Hazare deserves a place
ahead of Vengsarkar, Vishy or Azhar. I would drop Azhar, at least until
he removes the question mark against his ability to play genuine pace.

All in all I have very few quarrels with your team. The only slight
question mark I have is against Prasanna. Since this might sound like
heresey to a few, let me hasten to add that I admire Prasanna
tremendously and I have watched many of his feats at Chepauk: vs WI in
1967, (where he troubled everybody including the great Sobers on a wearing
fourth-innings wicket. If Sobers hadn't been dropped twice in the course
of 70-odd n.o., Prasanna and Bedi would have won that match for us),
vs Australia in 1968-69 (where he had Australia tottering at 24 for
six in their second innings with a spell of 4 wickets in 4 overs,
including the cream of the batting. Then, Redpath tried to counter the
spin by using his feet. Prasanna replied by beating him in the air,
leaving Redpath stranded by feet. But, horror of horrors, Engineer missed
the stumping, Redpath and of all people the fast bowler Maine (sp?)
effected a rescue, set us a reasonable target and we lost), vs England
in 1973 (where his batting in the first innings, around 35 and his 4 for
16 in England's second innings were a major factor in our win) and
vs WI in 1975 (can't remember how many wickets he took but he got both
Lloyd and Richards and played a major part in our win).

Having said all this, there are a few negatives about Prasanna. He wilted
under fire. There is one story that when Lloyd was going hammer and tongs
for his 163 in Bangalore in 1975, Prasanna refused to bowl when asked by
his skipper. Most of his good performances came on helpful tracks in
India. He was less effective abroad, not having done much either in the WI
in 1971, 1976 or in England in 1971, 1974 (I think Venkat displaced him
completely from the team on those tours). Of course he did very well in
Australia in 1968 where he got 25 wickets in 4 tests in 1968 and Ian
Chappel did rate him as the best spinner he had faced, so maybe I am
talking a lot of nonsense! But in my opinion, you would be better off
picking one of the other spinners, Gupte or Bedi. If you insist on
an off-spinner, take a look at Gulam Ahmed who was reputed to be a very
fine bowler. I don't know his stats so it's hard to judge.

All in all it's a fine team, but would you back it against any of the
following sides (which I picked somewhat at random, so make your favourite
substitutions)?
Australia               England                 WI
(1) VT Trumper          (1) Sutcliffe           (1) CG Greenidge
(2) WH Ponsford         (2) L Hutton            (2) D Haynes
(3) DG Bradman          (3) JB Hobbs            (3) G Headley
(4) G Chappel           (4) WR Hammond          (4) ED Weekes
(5) A Border            (5) DCS Compton         (5) IVA Richards
(6) K Miller            (6) DI Gower            (6) GS Sobers
(7) RW Marsh            (7) IT Botham           (7) C Walcott
(8) R Benaud            (8) APE Knott           (8) M Marshall
(9) RR Lindwall         (9) H Larwood           (9) AME Roberts
(10) DK Lillie          (10) FS Trueman         (10) M Holding
(11) W O'Reilley        (11) D Underwood        (11) LR Gibbs

Pakistan
(1) Hanif Mohamed
(2) Majid Khan
(3) Zaheer Abbas
(4) Asif Iqbal
(5) Javed Miandad
(6) Mushtaq Mohamed
(7) Imran Khan
(8) Wasim Akram
(9) Wasim Bari
(10) Fazal Mahmood
(11) Abdul Qadir

Sorry for the long post and for all the digressions (I seem to have
out-Muralied Iyer :-) :-)). I hope knowledgeable nettors from other
countries will post their own all-time XIs. (I would love to know
what teams Shamim, McBean and RS Pickett would chose).

Sriram Narayan

 
 
 

India's All-Time Test XI

Post by g9192.. » Thu, 01 Apr 1993 08:32:58

k.s.sri ram.narayan writes

?>
?> some stuff deleted....
?>
?>   The team is:
?> Gavaskar
?> Merchant
?> Vengsarkar
?> Vishwanath
?> Azhar
?> Mankad
?> Kapil
?> Kirmani
?> Prasanna
?> Mohd. Nissar
?> Chandra
?>  
?
?The point of this polemic is that IMHO at least, Hazare deserves a place
?ahead of Vengsarkar, Vishy or Azhar. I would drop Azhar, at least until
?he removes the question mark against his ability to play genuine pace.
?

Also, I'd replace Vengsarkar with Vijay Manjrekar & Vishy with C K Naidu (my  
choice of captain); the rest of the team, whether Sadiq's or your's is fine.

?
?All in all it's a fine team, but would you back it against any of the
?following sides (which I picked somewhat at random, so make your favourite
?substitutions)?
?Australia              England                 WI
?(1) VT Trumper         (1) Sutcliffe           (1) CG Greenidge
?(2) WH Ponsford        (2) L Hutton            (2) D Haynes
?(3) DG Bradman         (3) JB Hobbs            (3) G Headley
?(4) G Chappel          (4) WR Hammond          (4) ED Weekes
?(5) A Border           (5) DCS Compton         (5) IVA Richards
?(6) K Miller           (6) DI Gower            (6) GS Sobers
?(7) RW Marsh           (7) IT Botham           (7) C Walcott
?(8) R Benaud           (8) APE Knott           (8) M Marshall
?(9) RR Lindwall        (9) H Larwood           (9) AME Roberts
?(10) DK Lillie         (10) FS Trueman         (10) M Holding
?(11) W O'Reilley       (11) D Underwood        (11) LR Gibbs
?
?Pakistan
?(1) Hanif Mohamed
?(2) Majid Khan
?(3) Zaheer Abbas
?(4) Asif Iqbal
?(5) Javed Miandad
?(6) Mushtaq Mohamed
?(7) Imran Khan
?(8) Wasim Akram
?(9) Wasim Bari
?(10) Fazal Mahmood
?(11) Abdul Qadir
?
My differences with your above squads (also, I'm naming skippers & vice  
captains[~])

Australia
*Bradman
~Benaud
Harvey for Border
Spofforth for Lindwall

England
*W G Grace
~Hammond
W G Grace for Sutcliff
Tyson for Hobbs (Hobbs must either open or not be there)
Ames for Knott
Obviously, the batting order would change: Grace, Hutton, Gower, Hammond,  
Compton, Ames, Botham, Larwood, Trueman, Tyson, Underwood.

WI
*Headley
~Sobers
Hunte for Haynes
Hall for Roberts

Pak
*Mustaque
~Imran
Sarfraz for Fazal M.
The order would change a bit: Asif would come after Miandad & Mustaque.

?
?Sorry for the long post and for all the digressions (I seem to have
?out-Muralied Iyer :-) :-)). I hope knowledgeable nettors from other
?countries will post their own all-time XIs. (I would love to know
?what teams Shamim, McBean and RS Pickett would chose).

Also Howard could pick a NZ squad, & someone else a South African squad.

Bye

Jiminy Cricket
?
?Sriram Narayan

 
 
 

India's All-Time Test XI

Post by Mayank Go » Fri, 02 Apr 1993 03:21:35

Quote:

>k.s.sri ram.narayan writes


>?>
>?> some stuff deleted....
>?>
>?>       The team is:
>?> Gavaskar
>?> Merchant
>?> Vengsarkar
>?> Vishwanath
>?> Azhar
>?> Mankad
>?> Kapil
>?> Kirmani
>?> Prasanna
>?> Mohd. Nissar
>?> Chandra
>?>  
>?
>?The point of this polemic is that IMHO at least, Hazare deserves a place
>?ahead of Vengsarkar, Vishy or Azhar. I would drop Azhar, at least until
>?he removes the question mark against his ability to play genuine pace.
>?

>Also, I'd replace Vengsarkar with Vijay Manjrekar & Vishy with C K Naidu (my  
>choice of captain); the rest of the team, whether Sadiq's or your's is fine.

Much as I am touted as being a blind Azhar fan, I think that he should not be
in this team!!!! Dropping Vishy and taking Azhar, IMO, will weaken this side!
(After all isn't Azhar a Flat-wicket-cannot-play-bouncers type of player.
I don't knoe too much about Manjrekar Sr., hence I am not sure whether he should
be included......anyone with his records(I know, I know...this is a FAQ)??

Even I support the idea that Vengy does not belong here. He is too tentative
in his first few overs..and hence an susceptible to fall early( and we don't
want that!)
Rest look okay to me.

Quote:

>?
>?substitutions)?
>?Australia          England                 WI
>?(1) VT Trumper             (1) Sutcliffe           (1) CG Greenidge
>?(2) WH Ponsford    (2) L Hutton            (2) D Haynes
>?(3) DG Bradman             (3) JB Hobbs            (3) G Headley
>?(4) G Chappel              (4) WR Hammond          (4) ED Weekes
>?(5) A Border               (5) DCS Compton         (5) IVA Richards
>?(6) K Miller               (6) DI Gower            (6) GS Sobers
>?(7) RW Marsh               (7) IT Botham           (7) C Walcott
>?(8) R Benaud               (8) APE Knott           (8) M Marshall
>?(9) RR Lindwall    (9) H Larwood           (9) AME Roberts
>?(10) DK Lillie             (10) FS Trueman         (10) M Holding
>?(11) W O'Reilley   (11) D Underwood        (11) LR Gibbs

No Clive Lloyd in the WI team???? No Rohan Kanhai??? Oh well....I guess all
cannot be accommodated!

Quote:

>Jiminy Cricket
>?
>?Sriram Narayan

Peace,
Mayank Gour.
--

#        Arizona: Where I get to play cricket 9 months in a year!! :-)       ##
 
 
 

India's All-Time Test XI

Post by g9192.. » Fri, 02 Apr 1993 09:12:39

Mayank Gour writes
?>
?>Also, I'd replace Vengsarkar with Vijay Manjrekar & Vishy with C K Naidu (my  
?>choice of captain); the rest of the team, whether Sadiq's or your's is fine.
?
?Much as I am touted as being a blind Azhar fan, I think that he should not be
?in this team!!!! Dropping Vishy and taking Azhar, IMO, will weaken this side!
?(After all isn't Azhar a Flat-wicket-cannot-play-bouncers type of player.
?I don't knoe too much about Manjrekar Sr., hence I am not sure whether he  
should
?be included......anyone with his records(I know, I know...this is a FAQ)??
?

As you can see, I had suggested C. K. Naidu replacing Vishy, not Azhar  
replacing Vishy.  As of now, even Pataudi would probably be ahead of Azhar.

Cheers

Jiminy Cricket

?Peace,
?Mayank Gour.
?--

##
?#       Arizona: Where I get to play cricket 9 months in a year!! :-)       ##

?

 
 
 

India's All-Time Test XI

Post by k.s.sri ram.naray » Fri, 02 Apr 1993 07:10:09


Quote:

> ..lots of stuff deleted.........

> Some notable feats of Hazare's that I can dredge up from my recalcitrant
> memory (no doubt to be corrected by the net.statisticians :-)):
> He got a century in each innings against Australia at Adelaide in 1947.
> Bradman was the Australian captain and the attack comprised
> Lindwall, Miller, Johnston (left-arm medium) and Toshack (spin). This
> same attack destroyed England in 1948, so a hundred in each innings was
> a notable feat, though the Adelaide wicket was considered a featherbed in
> those times. (Shades of FWFB??)
> (Tangent mode on: among others, I believe Dennis Compton, Arthur
> Morris, the Don himself and Kanhai all made two centuries in a Test at
> Adelaide. This is purely from memory, so no flames please... Tangent mode
> off).

> Sriram Narayan

Oops....It wasn't Don Bradman who got a century in each innings at
Adelaide, it was Wally Hammond in 1928-29. The Don got his 2 tons in
a Test in Melbourne against India in 1947.

Sorry for the blooper. According to the only cricket book I have which
lists statistics (circa 1986), 5 batsmen have made a ton in each innings
of an Adelaide Test, the most for any venue. Must be a pretty friendly
track for batsmen. I suppose this provides more ammunition for the
FWFB Azhar camp :-).

Sriram Narayan

PS: I am just an arms supplier in these conflicts and not a participant
at all :-).

 
 
 

India's All-Time Test XI

Post by Howard Sil » Fri, 02 Apr 1993 12:46:04

Quote:

>Also Howard could pick a NZ squad, & someone else a South African squad.

Other permutations would be interesting to hear too... I would go for:

1. Glenn Turner
2. Bert Sutcliffe
3. Martin Donnelly
4. Martin Crowe
5. Stu Dempster
6. Jeremy Coney
7. John R. Reid
8. Sir Richard Hadlee
9. Ken Wadsworth
10. Clarrie Grimmett (is this allowed? He's originally from NZ)
11. Jack Cowie

Nos. 6,7 and 9 are most open to debate. The batting is rather long
and the bowling spread a bit thinly but with Hadlee, Cowie and one of the
greatest spinners of all time (conveniently swiped back from Aus) I think
it would still manage. If I couldn't use Grimmett I would have to drop
an allrounder (Reid) and add another strike bowler as well as spinner.
Coney is important to the balance of the team with his gritty batting
(vs. no3-5 more flashy batting) and his dribbly medium-pacers.

Howard.

 
 
 

India's All-Time Test XI

Post by Howard Sil » Fri, 02 Apr 1993 20:10:41

Quote:

>Also Howard could pick a NZ squad, & someone else a South African squad.

Other permutations would be interesting to hear too... I would go for:

1. Glenn Turner
2. Bert Sutcliffe
3. Martin Donnelly
4. Martin Crowe
5. Stu Dempster
6. Jeremy Coney
7. John R. Reid
8. Sir Richard Hadlee
9. Ken Wadsworth
10. Clarrie Grimmett (is this allowed? He's originally from NZ)
11. Jack Cowie

Nos. 6,7 and 9 are most open to debate. The batting is rather long
and the bowling spread a bit thinly but with Hadlee, Cowie and one of the
greatest spinners of all time (conveniently swiped back from Aus) I think
it would still manage. If I couldn't use Grimmett I would have to drop
an allrounder (Reid) and add another strike bowler as well as spinner.
Coney is important to the balance of the team with his gritty batting
(vs. no3-5 more flashy batting) and his dribbly medium-pacers.

Howard.

 
 
 

India's All-Time Test XI

Post by g9192.. » Sat, 03 Apr 1993 05:08:28

Howard Silby writes

?>Also Howard could pick a NZ squad, & someone else a South African squad.
?>
?Other permutations would be interesting to hear too... I would go for:
?
?1. Glenn Turner
?2. Bert Sutcliffe
?3. Martin Donnelly
?4. Martin Crowe
?5. Stu Dempster
?6. Jeremy Coney
?7. John R. Reid
?8. Sir Richard Hadlee
?9. Ken Wadsworth
?10. Clarrie Grimmett (is this allowed? He's originally from NZ)
?11. Jack Cowie         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
?

I should say it is.  In our line-ups, if any player has played for 2 countries,  
he could be taken in either, though it is more logical to put him in the team  
where he is more likely to be selected.  Since I didn't see Grimmett get  
selected to the squad he later on played for [can't remember for the life of me  
whether it was England or Australia :-( ], I guess that you are perfectly  
justified in selecting him (after all, he's gotta be there somewhere)  For the  
same reason that someone recently put Hick, Lamb & Smith in a combined South  
African -Zimbabwe squad, rather than in the England-West Indies squad.

While on the topic of players who have played for 2 countries, wonder how many  
Indians would put Ranji & Duleep in India's squad, if they were told that they  
could?  And who would they substitute?

Jiminy Cricket

?Nos. 6,7 and 9 are most open to debate. The batting is rather long
?and the bowling spread a bit thinly but with Hadlee, Cowie and one of the
?greatest spinners of all time (conveniently swiped back from Aus) I think
?it would still manage. If I couldn't use Grimmett I would have to drop
?an allrounder (Reid) and add another strike bowler as well as spinner.
?Coney is important to the balance of the team with his gritty batting
?(vs. no3-5 more flashy batting) and his dribbly medium-pacers.
?
?Howard.
?
?

 
 
 

India's All-Time Test XI

Post by g9192.. » Sat, 03 Apr 1993 05:19:55

K.V.N.Gopal writes

Quote:
(Howard Silby) writes:

?>Other permutations would be interesting to hear too... I would go for:
?>
?>1. Glenn Turner
?>2. Bert Sutcliffe
?>3. Martin Donnelly
?>4. Martin Crowe
?>5. Stu Dempster
?>6. Jeremy Coney
?>7. John R. Reid
?>8. Sir Richard Hadlee
?>9. Ken Wadsworth
?>10. Clarrie Grimmett (is this allowed? He's originally from NZ)
?>11. Jack Cowie
?  
?   I would not allow Grimmett in NZ team :-) (too nagging). He played most
?of his cricket from the age of 19 in Australia and also developed a lot of
?his skills(top spinners etc) while in Australia.Also he played test cricket
?for Australia even after NZ gained test status. So he will qualify in an
?All-time Australian XI rather than a NZ XI.
?
Well, if you look at the Aussie squads designed, you will see the following  
candidates for bowlers

Spofforth
Lillee
Thomson
Lindwall
Miller
Benaud
O'Reilly

Miller gets in as an all-rounder, and the general consensus is to leave out  
Thommo, and assuming that you have Miller & Marsh at #6 & 7, you will still  
find yourself choosing between Spofforth & Lindwall.  Assuming that it's  
Spofforth, you have Lindwall & Thomson in the reserves.  Thus Grimmett doesn't  
even have an outside chance of entering such an Aussie squad, so I'd probably  
let NZ have him, regardless of the fact that he played little cricket for NZ.

Jiminy Cricket

?
?Gopal

 
 
 

India's All-Time Test XI

Post by g9192.. » Sat, 03 Apr 1993 07:51:42

Howard Silby writes
?1. Glenn Turner
?2. Bert Sutcliffe
?3. Martin Donnelly
?4. Martin Crowe
?5. Stu Dempster
?6. Jeremy Coney
?7. John R. Reid
?8. Sir Richard Hadlee
?9. Ken Wadsworth
?10. Clarrie Grimmett (is this allowed? He's originally from NZ)
?11. Jack Cowie
?Howard.
?
?
Forgot to ask - who's your skipper in the above squad?

Jiminy Cricket