Sport Today

> Vinay,

> Did you see Shoaib sitting in the air-conditioned VIP enclosure
> sipping away at some soft-drink? While I think he did not fake the
> injury I do think if it was really as serious as claimed he should
> have been on the trainers table getting treatment rather than cooling
> his heels when his teammates were getting plundered in the field left
> right and center in quite severe conditions. The least he could have
> done IMO was to sit with the rest of the Pakistani players and coach
> and keep on egging his players on as they struggled

> Jack Welch, the ex-CEO of GE has said that there are 4 kinds of
> employees

> 1.) Those who deliver, perform and their values are in line with the
> company philosophy - these employees are golden and need to be held on
> to at all costs

> 2.) Those who are not able to deliver and don't share company values -
> these employees need to be let go ASAP

> 3.) Those who are not able to deliver but their values align with that
> of the company - these employees need to be moved around until they
> find their niche

> 4.) Those who deliver but they don't share the same values as the
> company - these are employees that are toughest to deal with because
> they they perform but their presence has a negative effect on company
> atmosphere

> It seems like Shoaib is the fourth category according to the Pakistani
> team management. Inzamam has been rubbed the wrong way by Shoaib since
> when the latter claimed that it was a matter of time before he would
> be Pakistani captain. Shoaib has a disdainful towards former Pakistani
> players except for one Imran Khan. He is the "senior" bowler who is
> opposed to the idea of a bowling coach in Waqar Younis

> If Shoaib is bounding and bouncing like a bronco in the next couple of
> weeks for modelling assignments in India there is no doubt that there
> will be a lot of sullen and angry faces abd voices all over the PCB.
> It will be even more damaging for Shoaib if he is playing county
> cricket at full tilt in the next couple of weeks

> I don't think Shoaib has played his last game for Pakistan but another
> couple of problems like this and the fat lady may start clearing her
> throat

> Shariq

> Did you see Shoaib sitting in the air-conditioned VIP enclosure
> sipping away at some soft-drink? While I think he did not fake the
> injury I do think if it was really as serious as claimed he should
> have been on the trainers table getting treatment rather than cooling
> his heels when his teammates were getting plundered in the field left
> right and center in quite severe conditions.

> > Vinay,

> > Did you see Shoaib sitting in the air-conditioned VIP enclosure
> > sipping away at some soft-drink? While I think he did not fake the
> > injury I do think if it was really as serious as claimed he should
> > have been on the trainers table getting treatment rather than cooling
> > his heels when his teammates were getting plundered in the field left
> > right and center in quite severe conditions. The least he could have
> > done IMO was to sit with the rest of the Pakistani players and coach
> > and keep on egging his players on as they struggled

> > Jack Welch, the ex-CEO of GE has said that there are 4 kinds of
> > employees

> > 1.) Those who deliver, perform and their values are in line with the
> > company philosophy - these employees are golden and need to be held on
> > to at all costs

> > 2.) Those who are not able to deliver and don't share company values -
> > these employees need to be let go ASAP

> > 3.) Those who are not able to deliver but their values align with that
> > of the company - these employees need to be moved around until they
> > find their niche

> > 4.) Those who deliver but they don't share the same values as the
> > company - these are employees that are toughest to deal with because
> > they they perform but their presence has a negative effect on company
> > atmosphere

> > It seems like Shoaib is the fourth category according to the Pakistani
> > team management. Inzamam has been rubbed the wrong way by Shoaib since
> > when the latter claimed that it was a matter of time before he would
> > be Pakistani captain. Shoaib has a disdainful towards former Pakistani
> > players except for one Imran Khan. He is the "senior" bowler who is
> > opposed to the idea of a bowling coach in Waqar Younis

> > If Shoaib is bounding and bouncing like a bronco in the next couple of
> > weeks for modelling assignments in India there is no doubt that there
> > will be a lot of sullen and angry faces abd voices all over the PCB.
> > It will be even more damaging for Shoaib if he is playing county
> > cricket at full tilt in the next couple of weeks

> > I don't think Shoaib has played his last game for Pakistan but another
> > couple of problems like this and the fat lady may start clearing her
> > throat

> > Shariq

>          I have read your post with considerable interest.

>          First, let us examine Shoaib's performance in this Test.
>          In the two innings, his detractor Inzimam scored a total
>          of 24 runs, which was exceeded by Shaib's 28 in the second
>          innings.  Further, Shoaib took 3 for 47 in the only Indian
>          innings.  Let us ignore the other Pakistani pacers, whose
>          figures were abysmal, and compae the figures of the Indian
>          pacemen :

>          Can we say that Shoaib performed very poorly in this Test ?

>          I have already referred to the Inzi-Shoaib spat when the
>          latter reportedly taunted Inzi wbout the captaincy.  I think
>          it was the type of ribbing that goes on constantly amongst
>          the players.

>          Shoaib's injury :  There is an old English saying that
>          only the wearer knows where the shoe pinches.  Can we or
>          even Inzimam readily determine that the injury was quite
>          trivial ?  All of us have seen Ganguly take a tumble in
>          the last ODI.  And we have seen ump*** such tumbles.
>          But Ganguly didn't just walk off the ground, he chose to
>          go to India and consulted specialists both in Pakistan and
>          India.  He missed the first two Tests also.  And how about
>          Inzimam himself ?  On ump*** occasions, we have seen
>          him make contact with the ball (while fielding) and then
>          he writhes his hand and goes off to the pavillion ?

>          Shoaib didn't complete his over and just went off.  He didn't
>          come out to the field on the third day at all.  That enabled
>          Pakistan to bring on a fully fit substitue.  Would it have
>          been preferable if Shoaib had hobbled on to the pitch and
>          dropped a couple of catches or misfielded on a few occasions,
>          thereby conceding unnecessary runs ?  

>          The argument that if he could bat, so he could bowl :
>          At full throttle, a fast bowler really has to bend his
>          back in the team's cause.  And Shoaib was just not able to
>          do so.  We know about Imran Khan.  After the 82-83 series,
>          he just won't bowl due to the stress fracture.  His former
>          captain Asif Iqbal criticised him severely for this, even
>          suggesting that he could take a lot of wickets only if he
>          had bowled about a hundred overs.  Zaheer Khan played a match
>          without being fully fit.  Everybody commented that he was
>          quite listless and ought not to have played at all.  And
>          then he had to go back.  He was severely criticised for
>          merely submitting a medical certificate, without being 100 %
>          fit.  And then look at the other Pakistani pace bowlers.
>          Abdur Razzaq, Umar Gul and Shabbir Ahmed.  All nursing
>          injuries and unable to play.  Should Shoaib be singled out
>          if he suffers an injury ?

>          It is not as if I am trying to defend Shoaib.  My only point
>          is : let us not rush to judgment.  And his captain's own
>          lacklustre performance hardly qualifies him to level accu-
>          sations against Shoaib.

>          A. A. Khan

>>>Vinay,

>>>Did you see Shoaib sitting in the air-conditioned VIP enclosure
>>>sipping away at some soft-drink? While I think he did not fake the
>>>injury I do think if it was really as serious as claimed he should
>>>have been on the trainers table getting treatment rather than cooling
>>>his heels when his teammates were getting plundered in the field left
>>>right and center in quite severe conditions. The least he could have
>>>done IMO was to sit with the rest of the Pakistani players and coach
>>>and keep on egging his players on as they struggled

>>>Jack Welch, the ex-CEO of GE has said that there are 4 kinds of
>>>employees

>>>1.) Those who deliver, perform and their values are in line with the
>>>company philosophy - these employees are golden and need to be held on
>>>to at all costs

>>>2.) Those who are not able to deliver and don't share company values -
>>>these employees need to be let go ASAP

>>>3.) Those who are not able to deliver but their values align with that
>>>of the company - these employees need to be moved around until they
>>>find their niche

>>>4.) Those who deliver but they don't share the same values as the
>>>company - these are employees that are toughest to deal with because
>>>they they perform but their presence has a negative effect on company
>>>atmosphere

>>>It seems like Shoaib is the fourth category according to the Pakistani
>>>team management. Inzamam has been rubbed the wrong way by Shoaib since
>>>when the latter claimed that it was a matter of time before he would
>>>be Pakistani captain. Shoaib has a disdainful towards former Pakistani
>>>players except for one Imran Khan. He is the "senior" bowler who is
>>>opposed to the idea of a bowling coach in Waqar Younis

>>>If Shoaib is bounding and bouncing like a bronco in the next couple of
>>>weeks for modelling assignments in India there is no doubt that there
>>>will be a lot of sullen and angry faces abd voices all over the PCB.
>>>It will be even more damaging for Shoaib if he is playing county
>>>cricket at full tilt in the next couple of weeks

>>>I don't think Shoaib has played his last game for Pakistan but another
>>>couple of problems like this and the fat lady may start clearing her
>>>throat

>>>Shariq

>>         I have read your post with considerable interest.

>>         First, let us examine Shoaib's performance in this Test.
>>         In the two innings, his detractor Inzimam scored a total
>>         of 24 runs, which was exceeded by Shaib's 28 in the second
>>         innings.  Further, Shoaib took 3 for 47 in the only Indian
>>         innings.  Let us ignore the other Pakistani pacers, whose
>>         figures were abysmal, and compae the figures of the Indian
>>         pacemen :

>>         Can we say that Shoaib performed very poorly in this Test ?

>>         I have already referred to the Inzi-Shoaib spat when the
>>         latter reportedly taunted Inzi wbout the captaincy.  I think
>>         it was the type of ribbing that goes on constantly amongst
>>         the players.

>>         Shoaib's injury :  There is an old English saying that
>>         only the wearer knows where the shoe pinches.  Can we or
>>         even Inzimam readily determine that the injury was quite
>>         trivial ?  All of us have seen Ganguly take a tumble in
>>         the last ODI.  And we have seen ump*** such tumbles.
>>         But Ganguly didn't just walk off the ground, he chose to
>>         go to India and consulted specialists both in Pakistan and
>>         India.  He missed the first two Tests also.  And how about
>>         Inzimam himself ?  On ump*** occasions, we have seen
>>         him make contact with the ball (while fielding) and then
>>         he writhes his hand and goes off to the pavillion ?

>>         Shoaib didn't complete his over and just went off.  He didn't
>>         come out to the field on the third day at all.  That enabled
>>         Pakistan to bring on a fully fit substitue.  Would it have
>>         been preferable if Shoaib had hobbled on to the pitch and
>>         dropped a couple of catches or misfielded on a few occasions,
>>         thereby conceding unnecessary runs ?  

>>         The argument that if he could bat, so he could bowl :
>>         At full throttle, a fast bowler really has to bend his
>>         back in the team's cause.  And Shoaib was just not able to
>>         do so.  We know about Imran Khan.  After the 82-83 series,
>>         he just won't bowl due to the stress fracture.  His former
>>         captain Asif Iqbal criticised him severely for this, even
>>         suggesting that he could take a lot of wickets only if he
>>         had bowled about a hundred overs.  Zaheer Khan played a match
>>         without being fully fit.  Everybody commented that he was
>>         quite listless and ought not to have played at all.  And
>>         then he had to go back.  He was severely criticised for
>>         merely submitting a medical certificate, without being 100 %
>>         fit.  And then look at the other Pakistani pace bowlers.
>>         Abdur Razzaq, Umar Gul and Shabbir Ahmed.  All nursing
>>         injuries and unable to play.  Should Shoaib be singled out
>>         if he suffers an injury ?

>>         It is not as if I am trying to defend Shoaib.  My only point
>>         is : let us not rush to judgment.  And his captain's own
>>         lacklustre performance hardly qualifies him to level accu-
>>         sations against Shoaib.

>>         A. A. Khan

> Shariq and Afzal,

> I would like to just add one more comment here. I have followed
> Shoaib's cricket for a long time now. I cannot remember a *single*
> instance where Shoaib did not seem to be running in at full blast. The
> amount of effort he puts into each delivery is amazing, and he does
> not relent. He does not bowl spells in the 80s because he is tired.
> toss him the ball and you can be sure he will run in at full pace.
> This is not the case for many pace bowlers - many times they bowl
> "within themselves". If it is hot, many pacers will run in slower and
> try to "conserve themselves." But in 40 degree heat, Shoaib was still
> running in as fast as he always does.

> Vinay

> > > Vinay,

> > > Did you see Shoaib sitting in the air-conditioned VIP enclosure
> > > sipping away at some soft-drink? While I think he did not fake the
> > > injury I do think if it was really as serious as claimed he should
> > > have been on the trainers table getting treatment rather than cooling
> > > his heels when his teammates were getting plundered in the field left
> > > right and center in quite severe conditions. The least he could have
> > > done IMO was to sit with the rest of the Pakistani players and coach
> > > and keep on egging his players on as they struggled

> > > Jack Welch, the ex-CEO of GE has said that there are 4 kinds of
> > > employees

> > > 1.) Those who deliver, perform and their values are in line with the
> > > company philosophy - these employees are golden and need to be held on
> > > to at all costs

> > > 2.) Those who are not able to deliver and don't share company values -
> > > these employees need to be let go ASAP

> > > 3.) Those who are not able to deliver but their values align with that
> > > of the company - these employees need to be moved around until they
> > > find their niche

> > > 4.) Those who deliver but they don't share the same values as the
> > > company - these are employees that are toughest to deal with because
> > > they they perform but their presence has a negative effect on company
> > > atmosphere

> > > It seems like Shoaib is the fourth category according to the Pakistani
> > > team management. Inzamam has been rubbed the wrong way by Shoaib since
> > > when the latter claimed that it was a matter of time before he would
> > > be Pakistani captain. Shoaib has a disdainful towards former Pakistani
> > > players except for one Imran Khan. He is the "senior" bowler who is
> > > opposed to the idea of a bowling coach in Waqar Younis

> > > If Shoaib is bounding and bouncing like a bronco in the next couple of
> > > weeks for modelling assignments in India there is no doubt that there
> > > will be a lot of sullen and angry faces abd voices all over the PCB.
> > > It will be even more damaging for Shoaib if he is playing county
> > > cricket at full tilt in the next couple of weeks

> > > I don't think Shoaib has played his last game for Pakistan but another
> > > couple of problems like this and the fat lady may start clearing her
> > > throat

> > > Shariq

> >          I have read your post with considerable interest.

> >          First, let us examine Shoaib's performance in this Test.
> >          In the two innings, his detractor Inzimam scored a total
> >          of 24 runs, which was exceeded by Shaib's 28 in the second
> >          innings.  Further, Shoaib took 3 for 47 in the only Indian
> >          innings.  Let us ignore the other Pakistani pacers, whose
> >          figures were abysmal, and compae the figures of the Indian
> >          pacemen :

> >          Can we say that Shoaib performed very poorly in this Test ?

> >          I have already referred to the Inzi-Shoaib spat when the
> >          latter reportedly taunted Inzi wbout the captaincy.  I think
> >          it was the type of ribbing that goes on constantly amongst
> >          the players.

> >          Shoaib's injury :  There is an old English saying that
> >          only the wearer knows where the shoe pinches.  Can we or
> >          even Inzimam readily determine that the injury was quite
> >          trivial ?  All of us have seen Ganguly take a tumble in
> >          the last ODI.  And we have seen ump*** such tumbles.
> >          But Ganguly didn't just walk off the ground, he chose to
> >          go to India and consulted specialists both in Pakistan and
> >          India.  He missed the first two Tests also.  And how about
> >          Inzimam himself ?  On ump*** occasions, we have seen
> >          him make contact with the ball (while fielding) and then
> >          he writhes his hand and goes off to the pavillion ?

> >          Shoaib didn't complete his over and just went off.  He didn't
> >          come out to the field on the third day at all.  That enabled
> >          Pakistan to bring on a fully fit substitue.  Would it have
> >          been preferable if Shoaib had hobbled on to the pitch and
> >          dropped a couple of catches or misfielded on a few occasions,
> >          thereby conceding unnecessary runs ?

> >          The argument that if he could bat, so he could bowl :
> >          At full throttle, a fast bowler really has to bend his
> >          back in the team's cause.  And Shoaib was just not able to
> >          do so.  We know about Imran Khan.  After the 82-83 series,
> >          he just won't bowl due to the stress fracture.  His former
> >          captain Asif Iqbal criticised him severely for this, even
> >          suggesting that he could take a lot of wickets only if he
> >          had bowled about a hundred overs.  Zaheer Khan played a match
> >          without being fully fit.  Everybody commented that he was
> >          quite listless and ought not to have played at all.  And
> >          then he had to go back.  He was severely criticised for
> >          merely submitting a medical certificate, without being 100 %
> >          fit.  And then look at the other Pakistani pace bowlers.
> >          Abdur Razzaq, Umar Gul and Shabbir Ahmed.  All nursing
> >          injuries and unable to play.  Should Shoaib be singled out
> >          if he suffers an injury ?

> >          It is not as if I am trying to defend Shoaib.  My only point
> >          is : let us not rush to judgment.  And his captain's own
> >          lacklustre performance hardly qualifies him to level accu-
> >          sations against Shoaib.

> >          A. A. Khan

> Shariq and Afzal,

> I would like to just add one more comment here. I have followed
> Shoaib's cricket for a long time now. I cannot remember a *single*
> instance where Shoaib did not seem to be running in at full blast. The
> amount of effort he puts into each delivery is amazing, and he does
> not relent. He does not bowl spells in the 80s because he is tired.
> toss him the ball and you can be sure he will run in at full pace.
> This is not the case for many pace bowlers - many times they bowl
> "within themselves". If it is hot, many pacers will run in slower and
> try to "conserve themselves." But in 40 degree heat, Shoaib was still
> running in as fast as he always does.

> Vinay

>> Did you see Shoaib sitting in the air-conditioned VIP enclosure
>> sipping away at some soft-drink? While I think he did not fake the
>> injury I do think if it was really as serious as claimed he should
>> have been on the trainers table getting treatment rather than cooling
>> his heels when his teammates were getting plundered in the field left
>> right and center in quite severe conditions.

> With all due respect man come on!! I myself have had back injuries and
> neck injuries. No amount of trainer can help a pulled muscle or sore
> ribs etc. It just takes time to get over the injury. It has to heal,
> period.

> >> Vinay,

> >> Did you see Shoaib sitting in the air-conditioned VIP enclosure
> >> sipping away at some soft-drink? While I think he did not fake the
> >> injury I do think if it was really as serious as claimed he should
> >> have been on the trainers table getting treatment rather than cooling
> >> his heels when his teammates were getting plundered in the field left
> >> right and center in quite severe conditions.

> > With all due respect man come on!! I myself have had back injuries and
> > neck injuries. No amount of trainer can help a pulled muscle or sore
> > ribs etc. It just takes time to get over the injury. It has to heal,
> > period.

> with all due respect, you are not a highly trained professional athlete.
> at least, i don't think so.
> the pain threshold that these guys have is amazing.
> i watch these guys in the nba, nfl & nhl sustain injuries which would have put
> me out of commission for a week.
> they go to the sideline, the physio does something, and they're back on the
> court/field/ice.
> at the very least, shoaib could've sat with the rest of the pak team instead of
> lounging in the vip enclosure.
> Spaceman Spiff

>>>Vinay,

>>>Did you see Shoaib sitting in the air-conditioned VIP enclosure
>>>sipping away at some soft-drink? While I think he did not fake the
>>>injury I do think if it was really as serious as claimed he should
>>>have been on the trainers table getting treatment rather than cooling
>>>his heels when his teammates were getting plundered in the field left
>>>right and center in quite severe conditions.

>>With all due respect man come on!! I myself have had back injuries and
>>neck injuries. No amount of trainer can help a pulled muscle or sore
>>ribs etc. It just takes time to get over the injury. It has to heal,
>>period.

> with all due respect, you are not a highly trained professional athlete.
> at least, i don't think so.
> the pain threshold that these guys have is amazing.
> i watch these guys in the nba, nfl & nhl sustain injuries which would have put
> me out of commission for a week.

>          First, let us examine Shoaib's performance in this Test.

>>> With all due respect man come on!! I myself have had back injuries
>>> and neck injuries. No amount of trainer can help a pulled muscle or
>>> sore ribs etc. It just takes time to get over the injury. It has to
>>> heal, period.

>> with all due respect, you are not a highly trained professional
>> athlete.
>> at least, i don't think so.
>> the pain threshold that these guys have is amazing.
>> i watch these guys in the nba, nfl & nhl sustain injuries which
>> would have put me out of commission for a week.

> With all due respect I have watched plenty of nba, nfl too and I have
> seen ample cases where a player goes to the sideline and the physio
> checks him out and if there is a injury that can especially limit his
> speed say for a linebacker or cornerback - he is in street clothes for
> the rest of the match.

> No No.

> There are some injuries that trainers can't overcome "at all".

> Secondly in no way did I suggest that I was shocked by the way he
> batted despite the injury....as a pace bowler myself I know how much
> easier batting is on your body than bowling especially for someone
> with as powerful an action as Shoaib.
> Shariq