England All-time Test XI

England All-time Test XI

Post by Nick Bennet » Tue, 19 Nov 1996 04:00:00


                Gooch (capt)
                Boycott
                Hobbs
                Gower
                Barrington
                Botham
                Knott (wkt)
                Trueman
                Laker
                Willis
                Lock
nik

 
 
 

England All-time Test XI

Post by Yawar Khawa » Tue, 19 Nov 1996 04:00:00


Quote:

>            Gooch (capt)
>            Boycott
>            Hobbs
>            Gower
>            Barrington
>            Botham
>            Knott (wkt)
>            Trueman
>            Laker
>            Willis
>            Lock
> nik

**** It would be hard to come up with an English lineup with D. Underwood,
Colin Cowdry, and Peter May (greatest capt. ever) MISSING......
                                                               Yawar

--
__________________________________________________________________________

The opinions expressed in this posting are in NO WAY opinions of
my EMPLOYER.

 
 
 

England All-time Test XI

Post by Dipak Ba » Tue, 19 Nov 1996 04:00:00

Hobbs was an opening batsman.  You're missing Sid Barnes and Wally
Hammond.  And why Lock instead of Verity or even Underwood?

Dipak.


Quote:

>                 Gooch (capt)
>                 Boycott
>                 Hobbs
>                 Gower
>                 Barrington
>                 Botham
>                 Knott (wkt)
>                 Trueman
>                 Laker
>                 Willis
>                 Lock
> nik


 
 
 

England All-time Test XI

Post by Mad Hami » Wed, 20 Nov 1996 04:00:00


Quote:
>                Gooch (capt)

not in the team and definately not captain

Consider Hobbs and Sutcliffe as openers. Averages 56 and 60. Average opening
partnersip 89.

Quote:
>                Boycott

loses out to Sutcliffe.

Quote:
>                Hobbs
>                Gower
>                Barrington
>                Botham

nope. Not on his career record.

Quote:
>                Knott (wkt)

possibly, or Ames or Evans.

Quote:
>                Trueman

yep.

Quote:
>                Laker
>                Willis

maybe, lathough Barnes or Richardson have claims.

Quote:
>                Lock

Nope, it's either Rhodes, Verity or Wardle. Wardle due to wrist spin ability
for mine.

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Fortunately only a simple majority is required.'
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England All-time Test XI

Post by Rick Eyr » Wed, 20 Nov 1996 04:00:00



Quote:
>            Gooch (capt)
>            Boycott
>            Hobbs
>            Gower
>            Barrington
>            Botham
>            Knott (wkt)
>            Trueman
>            Laker
>            Willis
>            Lock

Oh dear... 3 out of 11 aint bad...

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|  My world Test XI for now:   1.Taylor(c)  2.Anwar  3.Lara  4.Tendulkar  |
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England All-time Test XI

Post by Mark S Davie » Thu, 21 Nov 1996 04:00:00

Quote:

>                 Gooch (capt)
>                 Boycott
>                 Hobbs
>                 Gower
>                 Barrington
>                 Botham
>                 Knott (wkt)
>                 Trueman
>                 Laker
>                 Willis
>                 Lock
> nik

What!! Where is Wally Hammond in this setup???

Answers on a postcard to: Where is Wally Hammond in this setup???
                          rec.sport.cricket

Mark

PS. The reason I ask this question is because he has a respectable
    record in comparison with other top world players of the past
   (he'd be in my ATE-XI any day)
--
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England All-time Test XI

Post by Nick Bennet » Thu, 28 Nov 1996 04:00:00

Quote:


> >                Gooch (capt)

> not in the team and definately not captain

**** SO the fact that hes scored more runs in Test cricket for England
than anyone else EVER doesnt give him a place eh? be fair.

Quote:
> Consider Hobbs and Sutcliffe as openers. Averages 56 and 60. Average opening
> partnersip 89.

> >                Boycott

> loses out to Sutcliffe.

> >                Hobbs
> >                Gower
> >                Barrington
> >                Botham

> nope. Not on his career record.

******* SO being the best allrounder ever doesnt allow you a place on the
all-time England XI? Hell, he'd be in the ALL TIME EARTH XI !!
Quote:
> >                Knott (wkt)

> possibly, or Ames or Evans.

*** KNott was the best wicket keeper ever, its a recognised fact

Quote:
> >                Trueman

> yep.

**** YOu mean u agree with me on something ?

Quote:
> >                Laker
> >                Willis

> maybe, lathough Barnes or Richardson have claims.

> >                Lock

**** Laker and Lock are the most renowned spin pairing in Cricket History.
Quote:

> Nope, it's either Rhodes, Verity or Wardle. Wardle due to wrist spin ability
> for mine.

*** You really need to check your facts and figures

nik

 
 
 

England All-time Test XI

Post by Stephen A Deva » Fri, 29 Nov 1996 04:00:00


Quote:


>> In article


Quote:

>> >                Gooch (capt)

>> not in the team and definately not captain

>**** SO the fact that hes scored more runs in Test cricket for England
>than anyone else EVER doesnt give him a place eh? be fair.

>> Consider Hobbs and Sutcliffe as openers. Averages 56 and 60. Average
opening
>> partnersip 89.

>> >                Boycott

>> loses out to Sutcliffe.

How come no one has ever mentioned Len Hutton?  For my money, much as I
disliked him when he played, he would surpass all English openers but
Jack Hobbs.

Quote:

>> >                Hobbs
>> >                Gower

Either Denis Compton or Peter May, instead.  Even Colin Cowdrey ahead
of Gower.  

Quote:
>> >                Barrington
>> >                Botham

>> nope. Not on his career record.

>******* SO being the best allrounder ever doesnt allow you a place on
the
>all-time England XI? Hell, he'd be in the ALL TIME EARTH XI !!

Wha?  Who? Which?  Why is it that every time someone says "ever" or
"ALL TIME",  you can be sure their "ever" is REAL short,
approx. proportional to the time they've been following cricket, which
rarely goes back more than 20 years.

Quote:
>> >                Knott (wkt)

>> possibly, or Ames or Evans.

>*** KNott was the best wicket keeper ever, its a recognised fact

Ah, yes.  "Recognised fact."  Another sound argument.

Quote:
>> >                Trueman

>> yep.

>**** YOu mean u agree with me on something ?

>> >                Laker
>> >                Willis

>> maybe, lathough Barnes or Richardson have claims.

>> >                Lock

>**** Laker and Lock are the most renowned spin pairing in Cricket
History.

>> Nope, it's either Rhodes, Verity or Wardle. Wardle due to wrist spin
ability
>> for mine.

>*** You really need to check your facts and figures

>nik

nik, young man, there's an old saw about glass houses and stones...
But don't worry -- stick around this ng, read lots of postings by John
Hall, Charles Levy, Bharat Rao, Mad Hamish, Simon Pleasants, Ramaswamy,
Sadiq Yusuf, and a host of others too numerous to list but to whom I
pay tribute by invoking the greatest name of all: A S L A M! and you'll
learn something.  What I learned when I first joined this group, and
continue to learn each day, is how little I know (as opposed to think)!

Fraternally in cricket,

Steve the Bajan

Fraternally in cricket,

Steve the Bajan

 
 
 

England All-time Test XI

Post by Mad Hami » Sun, 01 Dec 1996 04:00:00


Quote:


>> >                Gooch (capt)

>> not in the team and definately not captain

>**** SO the fact that hes scored more runs in Test cricket for England
>than anyone else EVER doesnt give him a place eh? be fair.

Here we have Gooch's record

                 T    I   NO      R     AVG   50  100    HS     Ct   St
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Australia       42   79    0   2632   33.31   16    4   196     29    0
India           19   33    2   1725   55.64    8    5   333     21    0
New Zealand     15   24    2   1148   52.18    3    4   210     13    0
Pakistan        10   16    0    683   42.68    5    1   135      7    0
South Africa     3    6    0    139   23.16    0    0    33      1    0
Sri Lanka        3    6    0    376   62.66    1    1   174      4    0
West Indies     26   51    2   2197   44.83   13    5   154*    28    0

Last 10 Tests   10   19    0    397   20.89    1    0    56      4    0
Home            74  131    3   5917   46.22   26   15   333     66    0
Away            44   84    3   2983   36.82   20    5   153     37    0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL          118  215    6   8900   42.58   46   20   333    103    0

now that's good (and his record against the windies is very good) but note his
lack of success away and his lack of success against Australia. Good averages
against Sri Lanka, New Zealand and India don't make a class player.

Quote:
>> Consider Hobbs and Sutcliffe as openers. Averages 56 and 60. Average opening
>> partnersip 89.

Compare this with Sir Jack Hobbs
                 T    I   NO      R     AVG   50  100    HS     Ct   St
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Australia       41   71    4   3636   54.26   15   12   187     11    0
South Africa    18   29    3   1562   60.07   12    2   211      6    0
West Indies      2    2    0    212  106.00    1    1   159      0    0

Last 10 Tests   10   18    0    754   41.88    5    1   142      3    0
Home            27   40    3   1935   52.29   11    5   211      8    0
Away            34   62    4   3475   59.91   17   10   187      9    0

and Sutcliffe
                 T    I   NO      R     AVG   50  100    HS     Ct   St
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Australia       27   46    5   2741   66.85   16    8   194     15    0
India            1    2    0     22   11.00    0    0    19      0    0
New Zealand      4    4    1    250   83.33    0    2   117      0    0
South Africa    17   27    3   1336   55.66    5    6   122      4    0
West Indies      5    5    0    206   41.20    2    0    63      4    0

Last 10 Tests   10   14    1    471   36.23    4    0    69*     4    0
Home            33   47    7   2584   64.60   14    9   161     20    0
Away            21   37    2   1971   56.31    9    7   194      3    0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL           54   84    9   4555   60.73   23   16   194     23    0

now you may argue that the standard of cricket has improved, but then let's
consider how well a batsman with the leaden footwork of Gooch would do on a
sticky wicket.

Quote:

>> >                Boycott

>> loses out to Sutcliffe.

>> >                Hobbs
>> >                Gower

Dubious as well by the way.

Quote:
>> >                Barrington
>> >                Botham

>> nope. Not on his career record.

>******* SO being the best allrounder ever doesnt allow you a place on the
>all-time England XI? Hell, he'd be in the ALL TIME EARTH XI !!

kid, read up on such names as Foster, Miller, Rhodes, Imran Khan, WG Grace,
etc.

Botham's record
                 T    I   NO      R     AVG   50  100    HS     Ct   St
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Australia       36   59    2   1673   29.35    6    4   149*    57    0
India           14   17    0   1201   70.64    5    5   208     14    0
New Zealand     15   23    2    846   40.28    4    3   138     14    0
Pakistan        14   21    1    647   32.35    3    2   108     14    0
Sri Lanka        3    3    0     41   13.66    0    0    22      2    0
West Indies     20   38    1    792   21.40    4    0    81     19    0

Last 10 Tests   10   15    2    271   20.84    1    0    51*    14    0
Home            59   89    4   2969   34.92   13    8   208     62    0
Away            43   72    2   2231   31.87    9    6   142     58    0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL          102  161    6   5200   33.54   22   14   208    120    0

terrible final averages against Australia, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and the Windies
(Sri Lanka hardly counts with only 3 tests)

               T      B    M     R   W  5i 10m     AVG  StkR.  RRate     BB
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Australia      36   8479  297  4093 148   9  2    27.65   57.3   2.90   6/78
India          14   3371  131  1558  59   6  1    26.40   57.1   2.77   7/48
New Zealand    15   3284  120  1500  64   6  1    23.43   51.3   2.74   6/34
Pakistan       12   2491   95  1271  40   2  0    31.77   62.3   3.06   8/34
Sri Lanka       3    581   19   310  11   1  0    28.18   52.8   3.20   6/90
West Indies    20   3609  126  2146  61   3  0    35.18   59.2   3.57   8/103

Last 10 Tests  10   1737   64   890  16   0  0    55.62  108.6   3.07   3/217
Home           57  12243  475  6226 226  17  2    27.54   54.2   3.05   8/34
Away           43   9572  313  4652 157  10  2    29.63   61.0   2.92   7/48

a reasonable bowling record overall but, again, poor against the strongest
batting lineup of his time in the Windies.

Quote:
>> >                Knott (wkt)

>> possibly, or Ames or Evans.

>*** KNott was the best wicket keeper ever, its a recognised fact

It's not even completely recognized that he was the best of his time in his
own country. Ever heard of Bob Taylor? He was a damned good keeper who Knott
was ahead of due to better batting. Then have a look at Rod Marsh, Don Tallon,
Blackham, Oldfield, Carter, Grout, .........

Quote:
>> >                Trueman

>> yep.

>**** YOu mean u agree with me on something ?

I'm sure that it's sheer chance that you got that one right.

Quote:
>> >                Laker
>> >                Willis

>> maybe, lathough Barnes or Richardson have claims.

>> >                Lock

>**** Laker and Lock are the most renowned spin pairing in Cricket History.

Ever Heard of Grimmett and O'Reilly?

Quote:

>> Nope, it's either Rhodes, Verity or Wardle. Wardle due to wrist spin ability
>> for mine.

>*** You really need to check your facts and figures

Really? I suspect that I am far more conversent upon the figures of the
players in question than you are. As to facts, there are very few facts
available to the cricket follower picking all time best teams as conditions,
approaches and methods have changed so much over the past 100 years that
direct comparisons are difficult. Covered/uncovered wickets, different balls
and rules on new balls, different lbw rules, the types of wickets prepared
and safety equipment used all have an impact on the players of the time.

However for the past 13 years or more I've been watching, listening to,
reading about and discussing cricket. I have learnt a few things in that time
and my opinions are open to question but should perhaps be considered rather
than merely dismissed.

Wilfred Rhodes
                T      B    M     R   W  5i 10m     AVG  StkR.  RRate     BB
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Australia      39   5796  234  2616 109   6  1    24.00   53.2   2.71   8/68
South Africa   11    899   39   356   8   0  0    44.50  112.4   2.38   3/33
West Indies     4   1536   92   453  10   0  0    45.30  153.6   1.77   3/110

Last 10 Tests  10   2266  132   743  22   0  0    33.77  103.0   1.97   4/44
Home           20   3214  139  1419  67   3  0    21.17   48.0   2.65   7/17
Away           34   5017  226  2006  60   3  1    33.43   83.6   2.40   8/68
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL          58   8231  365  3425 127   6  1    26.96   64.8   2.50   8/68

played his last test match at 52 and kept Headley quiet. 4187 first class
wickets. One of the few bowlers who could keep Trumper quiet. After he'd
retired from first class cricket he bowled to Len Hutton in the nets and made
him misjudge the length of the ball more than anyone else ever did, according
to Hutton.

Verity
                T      B    M     R   W  5i 10m     AVG  StkR.  RRate     BB
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Australia      18   4930  257  1656  59   3  1    28.06   83.6   2.02   8/43
India           6   1632  105   615  38   1  1    16.18   42.9   2.26   7/49
New Zealand     3    598   40   230   7   0  0    32.85   85.4   2.31   2/33
South Africa    9   3298  167   802  31   1  0    25.87  106.4   1.46   5/70
West Indies     3    715   35   207   9   0  0    23.00   79.4   1.74   4/45

Last 10 Tests  10   3431  149   960  35   1  0    27.42   98.0   1.68   5/70
Home           21   5427  335  1781  80   2  1    22.26   67.8   1.97   8/43
Away           18   5746  269  1729  64   3  1    27.01   89.8   1.81   7/49
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL          40  11173  604  3510 144   5  2    24.37   77.6   1.88   8/43

Often kept Bradman quiet. Superb bowler.

Wardle
                T  
...

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