Donald vs Waugh better than Warne vs Cullinan

Donald vs Waugh better than Warne vs Cullinan

Post by J Drotsk » Wed, 31 Dec 1997 04:00:00


Warne got Cullinan 5 times but Donald got Mark Waugh 8 times and he bowled
less overs to him than Warne did to Cullinan. Suck on that all your old
Channel Nine commentators.

 
 
 

Donald vs Waugh better than Warne vs Cullinan

Post by Eamon Hanna » Thu, 01 Jan 1998 04:00:00



Quote:
> Warne got Cullinan 5 times but Donald got Mark Waugh 8 times and he
bowled
> less overs to him than Warne did to Cullinan. Suck on that all your old
> Channel Nine commentators.

What are their comparative averages. I remember Waugh getting a fairly
important century last year?

 
 
 

Donald vs Waugh better than Warne vs Cullinan

Post by Zildji » Fri, 02 Jan 1998 04:00:00



Quote:
>Warne got Cullinan 5 times but Donald got Mark Waugh 8 times and he bowled
>less overs to him than Warne did to Cullinan. Suck on that all your old
>Channel Nine commentators.

Well yes. Although Mwaugh has gone to Donald 8 times in 10 Tests,
whereas Cullinan has gone to Warne 5 times in 7 Tests.

There's also the nature of the dismissal to consider. Mwaugh doesn't
generally look as far out of his depth against Donald as what Cullinan
looks against Warne. Mwaugh has also mamaged two centuries against
RSA. Cullinan keeps us waiting.

However, I do think that something has really gone wrong with Mwaugh
over the last 12 months. I feel like I can remember him being clean
bowled at least 5 times. Ironically, this sequence started with the
dismissal that brought to an end that 116 against RSA, his most
acclaimed Test innings. Prior to this stretch, I only remember him
being bowled playing-on, sometimes in comical circumstances,
like when playing the reverse sweep against Tufnell, or playing
a superb late cut into middle stump. These days the ball is finding
a huge gate between bat and pad that never used to be there.
Maybe I'll go an compile some career stats on his mode of
dismissal....

-------------------------------
Greg Breen


 
 
 

Donald vs Waugh better than Warne vs Cullinan

Post by Ro » Fri, 02 Jan 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
>There's also the nature of the dismissal to consider. Mwaugh doesn't
>generally look as far out of his depth against Donald as what Cullinan
>looks against Warne. Mwaugh has also mamaged two centuries against
>RSA. Cullinan keeps us waiting.

You also have to look at how many times Cullinan gets out when Warne
is the bowler up the other end. That run out in the 1st innnings could be
directly credited to Cullinan being shitscared of facing Warne, and Kirsten
knew it, so he tried to take the strike. You think they would have taken that
single if, say, Blewett was the other bowler?
 
 
 

Donald vs Waugh better than Warne vs Cullinan

Post by Mike Holman » Sat, 03 Jan 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

>says...

>>There's also the nature of the dismissal to consider. Mwaugh doesn't
>>generally look as far out of his depth against Donald as what Cullinan
>>looks against Warne. Mwaugh has also mamaged two centuries against
>>RSA. Cullinan keeps us waiting.

>You also have to look at how many times Cullinan gets out when Warne
>is the bowler up the other end. That run out in the 1st innnings could be
>directly credited to Cullinan being shitscared of facing Warne, and Kirsten
>knew it, so he tried to take the strike. You think they would have taken that
>single if, say, Blewett was the other bowler?

Cullinan has now been dropped, quite obviously because he is completely
hopeless against Warne. Robin Smith of England suffered a similar fate.

Can anyone think of any other batsmen who have been forced out of their
country's side because of Warne, or for that matter any other particualr
bowler?

Cheers,

Mike

The exciting AFU FAQ, and many other things, may be found at
http://www.urbanlegends.com

 
 
 

Donald vs Waugh better than Warne vs Cullinan

Post by Ian Galbrai » Sun, 04 Jan 1998 04:00:00


*snip*
:You also have to look at how many times Cullinan gets out when Warne
:is the bowler up the other end. That run out in the 1st innnings could be
:directly credited to Cullinan being shitscared of facing Warne, and Kirsten
:knew it, so he tried to take the strike. You think they would have taken that
:single if, say, Blewett was the other bowler?

It also happened in one of the one dayers. Cullinan couldn't get away from
Warne fast enough. I notice in todays papers he is blaming the media and the
SA selectors, but the fact is by his behaviour out on the pitch he has
absolutely zero confidence against Warne, and he doesn't appear to be trying
to do anything about it himself. I hate to say it but he almost looks afraid
to face Warne. He should be wanting to face him, to try and build up his
confidence. He blamed the selectors because he wanted to open, and they
wouldn't let him, but that isn't dealing with his problem, it is running
away from it. The SA team seem to have come up with a team tactic against
Warne, so he should be wanting to face him and use it.

--
Ian Galbraith

(To email me remove delete_this from my address)

"To say that these men paid their shillings to watch twenty-two hirelings
kick a ball is merely to say that a violin is wood and catgut, that Hamlet
is so much paper and ink. For a shilling the Bruddersford United AFC offered
you conflict and art."
- J.B. Priestley

 
 
 

Donald vs Waugh better than Warne vs Cullinan

Post by Bea » Sun, 04 Jan 1998 04:00:00

On Fri, 2 Jan 1998 19:48:57 +0000, Mike Holmans

Quote:

>Cullinan has now been dropped, quite obviously because he is completely
>hopeless against Warne. Robin Smith of England suffered a similar fate.

>Can anyone think of any other batsmen who have been forced out of their
>country's side because of Warne, or for that matter any other particualr
>bowler?

I certainly can. Greg Blewett was dropped in the 1995 home series
against Pakistan because of a total inability to play Mushtaq Ahmed,
especially his wrong'un.
 
 
 

Donald vs Waugh better than Warne vs Cullinan

Post by Glenys William » Sun, 04 Jan 1998 04:00:00


Re: Cullinan -

Quote:
> confidence. He blamed the selectors because he wanted to open, and they
> wouldn't let him, but that isn't dealing with his problem, it is running
> away from it. The SA team seem to have come up with a team tactic against
> Warne, so he should be wanting to face him and use it.

This sort of backs up the theory that Cullinan is _not_ a team player, and
however brilliant he is, the biggest asset SA have is their team spirit -
and if he isn't plugging into that ...

glenys
--
put the relevant stuff including netline and my first name into the message
header

 
 
 

Donald vs Waugh better than Warne vs Cullinan

Post by Kip » Mon, 05 Jan 1998 04:00:00



Quote:
> However, I do think that something has really gone wrong with Mwaugh
> over the last 12 months. I feel like I can remember him being clean
> bowled at least 5 times. Ironically, this sequence started with the
> dismissal that brought to an end that 116 against RSA, his most
> acclaimed Test innings. Prior to this stretch, I only remember him
> being bowled playing-on, sometimes in comical circumstances,
> like when playing the reverse sweep against Tufnell, or playing
> a superb late cut into middle stump. These days the ball is finding
> a huge gate between bat and pad that never used to be there.
> Maybe I'll go an compile some career stats on his mode of
> dismissal....

This is not to take anything away from Mark but I thought the group might
like to know that after that match I heard thru the media grapevine that he
had said that he had got a very faint nick to a ball that Paul Adams had
bowled to him the evening prior to him going on to make that 100.  Neither
Adams nor Richardson appealled (which apparently he was pretty surprised
about) and he lived on to score the match winning century.  I've seen him
get a few bad decisions (as have other batsmen) and perhaps it proves the
point that the law of averages evens it all out in the end.
Regards Kip
 
 
 

Donald vs Waugh better than Warne vs Cullinan

Post by Shau » Tue, 06 Jan 1998 04:00:00

Quote:


>>There's also the nature of the dismissal to consider. Mwaugh doesn't
>>generally look as far out of his depth against Donald as what Cullinan
>>looks against Warne. Mwaugh has also mamaged two centuries against
>>RSA. Cullinan keeps us waiting.

>You also have to look at how many times Cullinan gets out when Warne
>is the bowler up the other end. That run out in the 1st innnings could be
>directly credited to Cullinan being shitscared of facing Warne, and Kirsten
>knew it, so he tried to take the strike. You think they would have taken that
>single if, say, Blewett was the other bowler?

Actually the 3 times i saw Cullinan bat against Warne this season,he got
him every time.

Had him in all sorts in first one dayer and got run out in desperation to
get off strike.
Similar story first innings of Melbourne Test although was run out trying
to aviod facing Warne the next over.
Then bowled for a duck in 2nd innings at MCG.

Strike one, strike two, strike three, he's OUT!
Don't know if we'll ever see Cullinan face Warne again.

Warne once said something about loving to have a career bowling to
Cullinan.
He'll have to accept he won't be bowling to Cullinan again.

 
 
 

Donald vs Waugh better than Warne vs Cullinan

Post by Shau » Tue, 06 Jan 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

>On Fri, 2 Jan 1998 19:48:57 +0000, Mike Holmans

>>Cullinan has now been dropped, quite obviously because he is completely
>>hopeless against Warne. Robin Smith of England suffered a similar fate.

>>Can anyone think of any other batsmen who have been forced out of their
>>country's side because of Warne, or for that matter any other particualr
>>bowler?

>I certainly can. Greg Blewett was dropped in the 1995 home series
>against Pakistan because of a total inability to play Mushtaq Ahmed,
>especially his wrong'un.

Also Graham Gooch once pulled out of Test matches in 1989 due to Terry
Alderman. Gooch was Alderman's bunny at the time like Lara was McGrath's
bunny last summer.
 
 
 

Donald vs Waugh better than Warne vs Cullinan

Post by Shau » Tue, 06 Jan 1998 04:00:00

Quote:


>Re: Cullinan -

>> confidence. He blamed the selectors because he wanted to open, and they
>> wouldn't let him, but that isn't dealing with his problem, it is running
>> away from it. The SA team seem to have come up with a team tactic against
>> Warne, so he should be wanting to face him and use it.

>This sort of backs up the theory that Cullinan is _not_ a team player, and
>however brilliant he is, the biggest asset SA have is their team spirit -
>and if he isn't plugging into that ...

After watching these 2 Tests i have to admit i think took too much notice
of the RSA team spirit and not enough notice of indiviual player talents.
Clearly their batting is pretty ordinary and lacks any real brillaint
batsmen which most teams have 1 or 2.
Their bowling is certainly good but field palcements etc not attacking
enough.
Basically talent wise they are a fair way behind the Australian team
and the batting in particular has been founding wanting big time with
Warne simply too

I thought to myself what would be the equivalent talent we good field in
Australia that would be equal with the RSA team.
I started with identifying Tom Moody could fill the role of McMillan.
Bats & Bowls a bit.
Here is the teams:

An hypothetical  Aust team

Hayden
Cox
Bevan
Law
Love
Moody
Julian
Emery
B Young
Gillespie
McGill
12th man Bichel

RSA

Bacher
Kirsten
Kallis
Cronje
Gibbs
McMillan
Pollock
Richardson
Symcox
Donald
Adams
12th man Klusener

Talent wise these groups of players i believe are on a par.

 
 
 

Donald vs Waugh better than Warne vs Cullinan

Post by Andrie Roelofs » Tue, 06 Jan 1998 04:00:00

Quote:
> After watching these 2 Tests i have to admit i think took too much notice
> of the RSA team spirit and not enough notice of indiviual player talents.
> Clearly their batting is pretty ordinary and lacks any real brillaint
> batsmen which most teams have 1 or 2.
> Their bowling is certainly good but field palcements etc not attacking
> enough.
> Basically talent wise they are a fair way behind the Australian team
> and the batting in particular has been founding wanting big time with
> Warne simply too

One of our problems in RSA is that we, as supporters,  tend to get
overexited on a specific result like the one we got in Pakistan.  After our
tour there, many of us thought that we had the stuff to beat the Aussies.
After watching these two tests I, sadly, have to say that we are not on
par, because, mostly, of three players:

Warne, and the two Waughs.  Somehow, amoungst these three, they muster the
match winning stuff; in any case against us.  With some very able support
from the rest of the team.  I also have to commend Taylor on captaincy.  He
has shown himself to be very good.
Hansie on the other hand may be a good one day captain, but I think he
lacks in the 5-day game.  

It is also mental.  We seem to enter these tests struggling from the start,
as if we do not believe in ourselves.  We rarely have been able to have the
upper hand in any session in any of the tests.  

I think we need a good shake-up for the third test.  MacMillan and
Richardson have to go.  Neither of them shows any ability to play Warne.
Since MacMillan hardly bowls, I find it hard to see justification for him
being in the team.

Congratulations Australia !  You've thoroughly beaten us.  

We'll have to see wether our guys are able to pick themselves up for the
third test.

Regards.

Andrie

 
 
 

Donald vs Waugh better than Warne vs Cullinan

Post by Tony Marti » Wed, 07 Jan 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> After watching these 2 Tests i have to admit i think took too much notice
> of the RSA team spirit and not enough notice of indiviual player talents.
> Their bowling is certainly good but field palcements etc not attacking
> enough.

Don't forget so far Taylor has had the upper hand in runs in the 2nd
innings of both tests so hes had the luxury of setting aggressive fields
even if it sacrifices a few boundaries.  Cronje has not.

Quote:
> I thought to myself what would be the equivalent talent we good field in
> Australia that would be equal with the RSA team.
> I started with identifying Tom Moody could fill the role of McMillan.
> Bats & Bowls a bit.
> Here is the teams:

>> ( cut comparison of SA Test side with many Aus players that wouldn't make the Aus Test side)

> Talent wise these groups of players i believe are on a par.

First of all I don't agree with the comparison.  I won't go into detail
but Gillespie equal to Donald for starters?  Have you been watching the
matches?

But even if I concede your list, Surely the one day matches have
demonstrated that just because a team looks better on paper doesn't mean
it has a better chance of winning.

I think people are reading too much into one result.  SA's bowling
lineup is excellent, Donald, Pollock and Symcox especially.  Donalds
bowling in the 2nd test was great and could easily have brought the Aus
innings to grinding halt on another day.  Kirsten, Kallis, and Cronje
have all shown mettle against Australias attack, (not consistently I'll
admit), and the fact that Symcox comes in at no 9 shows that their
batting goes deep too.

I agree they'd probably be better off dumping Richardson and take a risk
on some young talent, maybe the same with McMillan too but I'm not
familiar with the pool of SA young players.

SA's team spirit cannot be overlooked.  All they need is to bring that
confidence and fighting spirit they show in the field through to their
batting.  Just one upper order batsmen has to take on Warne and show how
its done.  The whole Cullinan/Warne thing has done nothing for SA's
confidence.  I think what they also really need is for Cronje to lead
the way with some good batting performances.  A couple of Border style
lead from the front knocks would do wonders for their side.  (easier
said than done I know but still possible)

Having said all this I still think Aust is the better side, but I have
no doubts that Aust are in for a fight in the 3rd Test.

Tony Martin.