Sport Today

by **Surma Bhopa** » Wed, 26 Sep 2001 13:59:35

Excerpts from BS Bedi's article:

*******No Indian team has so far returned triumphant from South
Africa, with Mohammad Azharuddin's team failing in 1992-93 and
Tendulkar's men meeting with the same fate four seasons later.

India has yet to win a Test in South Africa, let alone a series. It
lost one and drew three matches under Azharuddin and then lost two and
drew one under Tendulkar.

It fared no better in One-dayers either, winning just two of the 12
matches. Bedi said he expected no miracles from India this time.
"Miracles do not happen every day," he said. "It happened when India
beat Australia at home early this year. I hope for the best, but am
prepared for the worst." *******

Tank full of negative thoughts...

by **zRah** » Thu, 27 Sep 2001 03:23:30

Bedi is stating the facts . Those are resonable comments . If India is
not able to win a series against Zim then How can we expect them to
win against SA. As an India fan I hope India wins but as a realist I
know this is not likely to happen.

by **Nikhil Sha** » Thu, 27 Sep 2001 11:09:59

Quote:

> Bedi is stating the facts . Those are resonable comments . If India is
> not able to win a series against Zim then How can we expect them to
> win against SA. As an India fan I hope India wins but as a realist I
> know this is not likely to happen.

Rahul, you underestimate the mental commitment to win a series outside
India. Sachin does well against teams like Australia because of the
competitiveness and usually turns it up a notch, which we expect
them to do in SA.

There I several reasons I feel optimisitc about this tour:

- Agarkar and Srinath are solid and both Kumble and
Harbhajan will be able to exploit the slow pitches in
SA. Report is that there could be some help to the
spinners.

- SA traditionally have been problematic when they face
spin bowlers. Hopefully Harbhajan and Kumble can be
a good pair.

- The Ramesh/Das pair is looking solid and I expect Sachin
to be well protected from a top order batting collapse.

- The rejuvenation of Yuvraj and Shewag in ODIs can be
a big plus.

I don't think this tour is going to be a white wash. It will be
a close one, and who know what will happen if we can
keep it close?

Nikhil [something to look forward to] Shah

by **Mad Hami** » Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:45:58

On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 02:09:59 GMT, Nikhil Shah

Quote:

>> Bedi is stating the facts . Those are resonable comments . If India is
>> not able to win a series against Zim then How can we expect them to
>> win against SA. As an India fan I hope India wins but as a realist I
>> know this is not likely to happen.

>Rahul, you underestimate the mental commitment to win a series outside
>India. Sachin does well against teams like Australia because of the
>competitiveness and usually turns it up a notch, which we expect
>them to do in SA.

Actually Sachin does well against teams like Australia because he's
clearly in the top couple of batsmen in the world.

Quote:

>There I several reasons I feel optimisitc about this tour:

>- Agarkar and Srinath are solid

neither have been overly successful outside India in the past.

Quote:

>and both Kumble and
> Harbhajan will be able to exploit the slow pitches in
> SA.

SA pitches aren't that slow. They aren't Perth but they're not slow.

Quote:

> Report is that there could be some help to the
> spinners.

What's that got to do with Kumble?
Kumble in RSA
7 409.5 851 26 6/53 8/113 32.73 2.07 94.5 1 0

his last tour
SA 3 155.2 384 8 3/40 4/103 48.00 2.47 116.5 0 0

Quote:

>- SA traditionally have been problematic when they face
> spin bowlers. Hopefully Harbhajan and Kumble can be
> a good pair.

Um, RSA has had problems against Warne.
They've done pretty well against most other spinners.
Muralidharan has done pretty well against them too, but he's more
effective than Kumble in general and has a lot more experience than
Singh.

Quote:

>- The Ramesh/Das pair is looking solid and I expect Sachin
> to be well protected from a top order batting collapse.

Ramesh & Das have not faced anything like Pollock outside of India.

by **Nikhil Sha** » Fri, 28 Sep 2001 00:48:49

Quote:

> On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 02:09:59 GMT, Nikhil Shah

> Actually Sachin does well against teams like Australia because he's
> clearly in the top couple of batsmen in the world.

The problem with the Indian team was the complacent attitude
during the Zimbabwe tour. Laxman was criticized even by the
Zimbabwe captain for not staying around longer and going for
the big shots.

Another problem we had was the juggling of openers in the series.
Ramesh was simply dropped, Ganguly after that decided to give
Ramesh a longer run in SL and this seems to have paid off.

Overall we have now have a good balance to keep the ODI and
Test series close. I don't think this series is going to be a whitewash.
Also Allan Donald is not as sharp as he used to be. I remember
how Dravid and Ganguly were new and struggled in that tour, I
think Ganguly and Dravid should be more positive and mature in
this tour than the previous one as well.

Quote:

> >- Agarkar and Srinath are solid

> neither have been overly successful outside India in the past.

Agarkar matured quite a bit and Srinath is getting his 3rd chance
to SA. We also have planned the tour in such a way that
Das is going to get used to the conditions early. That will be
a big plus for us to prevent the crucial batting collapse.

Quote:

> >and both Kumble and
> > Harbhajan will be able to exploit the slow pitches in
> > SA.

> SA pitches aren't that slow. They aren't Perth but they're not slow.

> > Report is that there could be some help to the
> > spinners.

> What's that got to do with Kumble?
> Kumble in RSA
> 7 409.5 851 26 6/53 8/113 32.73 2.07 94.5 1 0

> his last tour
> SA 3 155.2 384 8 3/40 4/103 48.00 2.47 116.5 0 0

With better support from Srinath, Agarkar and Harbhajan along
with Nehra and Khan, we should have a formidable attack. I think
the problem in the past was both Srinath and Kumble did not have
a solid support. The Indian bowling attack was not capable of
keeping a fresh batsmen at the crease and Johnson and
Ganesh had difficulty taking wickets.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> >- SA traditionally have been problematic when they face
> > spin bowlers. Hopefully Harbhajan and Kumble can be
> > a good pair.

> Um, RSA has had problems against Warne.
> They've done pretty well against most other spinners.
> Muralidharan has done pretty well against them too, but he's more
> effective than Kumble in general and has a lot more experience than
> Singh.

> >- The Ramesh/Das pair is looking solid and I expect Sachin
> > to be well protected from a top order batting collapse.

> Ramesh & Das have not faced anything like Pollock outside of India.

I am not expecting Ramesh and Das to score centuries, but even if they
use up 20-25 overs and score a opening partnership of 50-75, that will be
a big plus. In the past, Gandhi, Laxman, Rathore have simply failed to
hold on. Sidhu if I can recall did not tour SA, which was a very crucial
absence.

Nikhil [who is quite happy with the overall balance in the team] Shah

by **Robin Hoo** » Fri, 28 Sep 2001 01:45:46

Quote:

>Rahul, you underestimate the mental commitment to win a series outside
>India. Sachin does well against teams like Australia because of the
>competitiveness and usually turns it up a notch, which we expect
>them to do in SA.

Nikhil, i don't think this is a valid arguement. If what you were
saying is true, then India would have done very well against Australia
in their last tour down under. If i am not mistaken, the same commitment was
there, Sachin in his 2nd avtaar as skipper was showing quiet a bit of zeal to
win outside the subcontinent and the team was pretty much solid on paper.
Except that apart from Sachin, no one delivered with the bat on the tour.
Make no mistake, the commitment to do well was there but they just couldn't face
the Australian bowlers on the hard tracks. I guess Ganguly is showing the same
kind of enthusiasm and commitment and one can only hope that it gets converted
into action.

Quote:

>- Agarkar and Srinath are solid and both Kumble and
> Harbhajan will be able to exploit the slow pitches in
> SA. Report is that there could be some help to the
> spinners.

If the pitches are going to be slow then how can Agarkar
and Srinath deliver the goods seeing their performance
on Indian pitches??? Moreover, even if they are slow, they
are still in South Africa and so there is no guarantee
about Kumble or Harbhajan performing as they have done in
slow tracks of India.

Quote:

>- SA traditionally have been problematic when they face
> spin bowlers. Hopefully Harbhajan and Kumble can be
> a good pair.

I doubt they will hunt in pairs as one of them will have to sit
out if we are taking 6 batsmen. And Zaheer Khan or Ashish Nehra
are no allrounders for India to experiment with just 5 batsmen.

Quote:

>- The rejuvenation of Yuvraj and Shewag in ODIs can be
> a big plus.

Mostly, they will not be playing the Tests. Maybe one of them can
get selected on good performance in the onedayers.

Quote:

>I don't think this tour is going to be a white wash. It will be
>a close one, and who know what will happen if we can
>keep it close?

Even the last tour was close in the last two Tests except that Indian bowlers
frittered it away after they had the top order South African batsmen in their
grip. The Indian bowlers also had Aussies tottering at 52 for 4 on the first day
of the first Test only to completely give it away for the rest of the tour.
There is no guarantee that they will not repeat the same act again against South
Africa.

Quote:

>Nikhil [something to look forward to] Shah

Yes, but IMO only in terms of personal player achievements for the Indians.

Robin

by **Nikhil Sha** » Fri, 28 Sep 2001 02:15:49

Quote:

> >Rahul, you underestimate the mental commitment to win a series outside
> >India. Sachin does well against teams like Australia because of the
> >competitiveness and usually turns it up a notch, which we expect
> >them to do in SA.

> Nikhil, i don't think this is a valid arguement. If what you were
> saying is true, then India would have done very well against Australia
> in their last tour down under. If i am not mistaken, the same commitment was
> there, Sachin in his 2nd avtaar as skipper was showing quiet a bit of zeal to
> win outside the subcontinent and the team was pretty much solid on paper.
> Except that apart from Sachin, no one delivered with the bat on the tour.
> Make no mistake, the commitment to do well was there but they just couldn't face
> the Australian bowlers on the hard tracks. I guess Ganguly is showing the same
> kind of enthusiasm and commitment and one can only hope that it gets converted
> into action.

During the last Australian tour, we did not have Ramesh and Das to prevent
a top order batting collapse. After the introduction of the two openers
we have been able to at least win a Test match abroad in every series
we played. I think, Ramesh and Das, if they can play out a few overs,
say about 10-12, could make a huge difference for the MO to settle down
and take advantage of it. In addition to a solid and balanced bowling attack,
I think the Indian team now has the balance to compete outside of India.
I don't think it will be a whitewash. India seems to have do slightly
better in SA than in Australiaas well. It would be hard to predict a win
in SA for India, if I think we can be competitive with this team we have
matured over the past 1-2 years with the discovery of Das and Ramesh
in addition to Nehra, Khan and Harbhajan.

Quote:

> >- Agarkar and Srinath are solid and both Kumble and
> > Harbhajan will be able to exploit the slow pitches in
> > SA. Report is that there could be some help to the
> > spinners.

> If the pitches are going to be slow then how can Agarkar
> and Srinath deliver the goods seeing their performance
> on Indian pitches??? Moreover, even if they are slow, they
> are still in South Africa and so there is no guarantee
> about Kumble or Harbhajan performing as they have done in
> slow tracks of India.

What I meant was, the pitches are not going to the typical
fast paced where spinners are totally in-effective. I think they
are going to be well balanced pitches for both spinners and
pace bowlers. The Perth pitch is just a very fast pitch and
is extremely effective for pace bowlers.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> >- SA traditionally have been problematic when they face
> > spin bowlers. Hopefully Harbhajan and Kumble can be
> > a good pair.

> I doubt they will hunt in pairs as one of them will have to sit
> out if we are taking 6 batsmen. And Zaheer Khan or Ashish Nehra
> are no allrounders for India to experiment with just 5 batsmen.

> >- The rejuvenation of Yuvraj and Shewag in ODIs can be
> > a big plus.

> Mostly, they will not be playing the Tests. Maybe one of them can
> get selected on good performance in the onedayers.

I agree, there is a possiblity that if Shewag is explode with centuries
in ODIs and one of the openers fail in Tests, we may see, Shewag
open in Tests as well and may not come back after the ODIs series.
The same could apply with Yuvraj.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> >I don't think this tour is going to be a white wash. It will be
> >a close one, and who know what will happen if we can
> >keep it close?

> Even the last tour was close in the last two Tests except that Indian bowlers
> frittered it away after they had the top order South African batsmen in their
> grip. The Indian bowlers also had Aussies tottering at 52 for 4 on the first day
> of the first Test only to completely give it away for the rest of the tour.
> There is no guarantee that they will not repeat the same act again against South
> Africa.

> >Nikhil [something to look forward to] Shah

> Yes, but IMO only in terms of personal player achievements for the Indians.

> Robin

The ODIs team is pretty solid, except for the all-rounders slot. Now if the
pitches are not as quick as the Australian pitches, we can get Yuvraj as
an allrounder to finish his quota of 10 overs. With Sachin back, and Yuvraj
and Shewag bowling the quota of 10 overs like they bowled in SL, we
could see a tough ODI squad to beat.

If you remember, Joshi has always, as a spinner done well against SA,
and I expect, Kumble and Bhajju to do well in SA with the same token.

Nikhil [ who is not seeing a white-wash in SA this time around] Shah

by **zRah** » Fri, 28 Sep 2001 02:24:58

It is good to be such an optimist. I do not care much about ODIs I am
a fan of test cricket. The fact is apart from Kumble the team is more
or less the same that toured Zim.

Kumble is most effective bowling on under prepared wickets.
I would doubt if both Kumble and Harbhajan will play in the same
test. If we play 2 spinners that would mean only 2 fast bowlers . By
current form and hierarchy the choice would be between Srinath, Nehra
and Zahir Khan , your friend Agarkar would be nowhere in the picture.
Agarkar can replace Srinath in the list of contenders if he bowls
exceptionally well in the ODIs ( very unlikely to happen) and Srinath
bowls poorly( very likely to happen).

If we go with 3 fast bowlers and 2 spinners then that would mean going
with 5 batsmen. If Laxman regains his fitness and is in the team .
This would mean Ramesh would most likely be dropped provided Dravid
agrees to open . Mr. Rahul 'Dedicated' Dravid would refuse therefore
like it or not we have to go with 4 bowlers.

Saurav And Sachin are also effective bowling options. Sachin can play
the role of the 2nd spinner if we have only 1 spinner Or Saurav can
play the role of the 3rd seamer if we have only 2 fast bowlers.

My hope for miracle depend on our batting getting at least 350 on the
board in the first innings and also that Srinath , Nehra , Khan and
Harbhajan are effective enough to contain SA batting under 400 or
atleast ensure that they don't score more than 250 in one day .

by **Nikhil Sha** » Fri, 28 Sep 2001 03:10:20

Quote:

> It is good to be such an optimist. I do not care much about ODIs I am
> a fan of test cricket. The fact is apart from Kumble the team is more
> or less the same that toured Zim.

I sound like an optimist maybe because I am not predicting a whitewash
:-);
We have seen Kumble struggle in the past, this time there maybe some
hope with better support. We have enough talent to make the adjustments
if we lose the 1st Test badly. We cannot predict much the ODI performance.

Hopefully we get lucky in the ODI finals this time around.

Quote:

> Kumble is most effective bowling on under prepared wickets.
> I would doubt if both Kumble and Harbhajan will play in the same
> test. If we play 2 spinners that would mean only 2 fast bowlers . By
> current form and hierarchy the choice would be between Srinath, Nehra
> and Zahir Khan , your friend Agarkar would be nowhere in the picture.
> Agarkar can replace Srinath in the list of contenders if he bowls
> exceptionally well in the ODIs ( very unlikely to happen) and Srinath
> bowls poorly( very likely to happen).

Most likely, Khan will get picked ahead of Agarkar. Depending on the
weather conditions and the pitch, if Agarkar does well in the ODI
series, Nehra and Agarkar can compete with each other if Nehra
is still fit. My feeling is Nehra may not get picked, since they already
have Prasad for conditions where they can move the ball laterally.

Quote:

> If we go with 3 fast bowlers and 2 spinners then that would mean going
> with 5 batsmen. If Laxman regains his fitness and is in the team .
> This would mean Ramesh would most likely be dropped provided Dravid
> agrees to open . Mr. Rahul 'Dedicated' Dravid would refuse therefore
> like it or not we have to go with 4 bowlers.

> Saurav And Sachin are also effective bowling options. Sachin can play
> the role of the 2nd spinner if we have only 1 spinner Or Saurav can
> play the role of the 3rd seamer if we have only 2 fast bowlers.

> My hope for miracle depend on our batting getting at least 350 on the
> board in the first innings and also that Srinath , Nehra , Khan and
> Harbhajan are effective enough to contain SA batting under 400 or
> atleast ensure that they don't score more than 250 in one day

We are understimating the impact Ramesh/Das will make in Test
matches in SA. We tend to relate success with batsmen when they score big
centuries, but if Ramesh and Das can score even a 40/50 each and go
wicketless
for 20 overs, that could be enough to launch a decent score for the MO and

keep the series competitive and alive. What Bedi has said is, how can we
beat SA if we cannot beat Zimbabwe? that could be true to some extent,
but keeping it close and making the adjustments with the talent we have
along with the a better mental approach against an SA team can make a
difference,

Nikhil [ I don't think winning in SA is really a miracle] Shah

by **Robin Hoo** » Fri, 28 Sep 2001 03:28:33

Quote:

>During the last Australian tour, we did not have Ramesh and Das to prevent
>a top order batting collapse. After the introduction of the two openers
>we have been able to at least win a Test match abroad in every series
>we played.

Ramesh played in Aus and India had Laxman,Dravid,SRT,Ganguly down the order
which looks pretty strong but it didn't deliver. Das is the only change this
time around and i doubt he will be able to make such a huge change in India's
fortunes except of course if the MO comes good. Ramesh and Das should have
hit more runs in SL than they did and hardly crossed the 60 score mark in their
personal scores. Certainly, in South Africa they will not be able to score as
many. If a stand of around 100 is not able to encourage Ganguly and Dravid to
capitalise on it, i doubt a stand of 50(proportionate decrease) in RSA will
encourage the MO. The only encouragement is that Sachin is back and can strike
big any time in the Tests though i am not so hopeful about Laxman. Apart from
gigantic once-in-a-bluemoon scores of 281 and 166, his contributions have always
been minimal to the Indian team.

Quote:

>In addition to a solid and balanced bowling attack,

I don't think the pace attack is that solid. Khan has around 21 wkts in 8 Tests
and Agarkar has 24 in 10. Nehra has played too few Tests to predict anything
about him. Apart from that, it is the same old combination of Srinath and Prasad
and i am not too hopeful of them either.

Quote:

>Nikhil [ who is not seeing a white-wash in SA this time around] Shah

But we have never got whitewashed in SA. Last time, it was 2-0 and the thir Test
was almost won by India till it resulted in a draw.

Robin

by **Nikhil Sha** » Fri, 28 Sep 2001 03:57:41

Quote:

> >During the last Australian tour, we did not have Ramesh and Das to prevent
> >a top order batting collapse. After the introduction of the two openers
> >we have been able to at least win a Test match abroad in every series
> >we played.

> Ramesh played in Aus and India had Laxman,Dravid,SRT,Ganguly down the order
> which looks pretty strong but it didn't deliver. Das is the only change this
> time around and i doubt he will be able to make such a huge change in India's
> fortunes except of course if the MO comes good. Ramesh and Das should have
> hit more runs in SL than they did and hardly crossed the 60 score mark in their
> personal scores.

Robin, a batting collapse can expose the MO too early, and it makes
a big difference in a Test match where, once the batsmen is set, Sachin,
Laxman, Dravid and Ganguly can get a big score. I think, Laxman along
with Dravid and Ganguly have matured quite a bit since the Australian tour
and the wins in Zimbabwe and SL if not a series win was an important
step for the confidence of the team and the players. Ganguly, when talking
to the press in SA, was not too keen in talking about History, which is a
good this, because that can be a serious mental block.

Quote:

> >In addition to a solid and balanced bowling attack,

> I don't think the pace attack is that solid. Khan has around 21 wkts in 8 Tests
> and Agarkar has 24 in 10. Nehra has played too few Tests to predict anything
> about him. Apart from that, it is the same old combination of Srinath and Prasad
> and i am not too hopeful of them either.

The sample sizes for Khan, Agarkar and Nehra are small, but Khan and Agarkar
have displayed thier ability and talent in ODIs. The sample size for Agarkar and
Khan are small because we don't play Tests that often. This is Khan's second
tour and Nehra's second as well, which is not bad to support Srinath and Prasad.

Quote:

> >Nikhil [ who is not seeing a white-wash in SA this time around] Shah

> But we have never got whitewashed in SA. Last time, it was 2-0 and the thir Test
> was almost won by India till it resulted in a draw.

> Robin

I meant probably the way things went in Australia. If this is going to be a well
fought series, and we tend to do better than touring Australia, with a better
balanced team there could be some hope in winning it although the chances
are remote.

Regards

Nikhil

by **zRah** » Fri, 28 Sep 2001 08:13:36

Quote:

> Most likely, Khan will get picked ahead of Agarkar. Depending on the
> weather conditions and the pitch, if Agarkar does well in the ODI
> series, Nehra and Agarkar can compete with each other if Nehra
> is still fit. My feeling is Nehra may not get picked, since they already
> have Prasad for conditions where they can move the ball laterally.

Nehra was our best bowler in the Last he played in . Nehra is an
automatic selection when he is fit . And so is Khan . Srinath willhave
an edge over Khan on grounds of experince. Agarkar and Prasad would
be stand by for the first 3.
Since Nehra and Khan have entered the scene those bad old days of
Agarkar and Srinath leading the attack are over.

by **Mad Hami** » Sun, 30 Sep 2001 07:42:51

On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:48:49 GMT, Nikhil Shah

Quote:

>> On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 02:09:59 GMT, Nikhil Shah

>> Actually Sachin does well against teams like Australia because he's
>> clearly in the top couple of batsmen in the world.

>The problem with the Indian team was the complacent attitude

obviously a team with 2 away victories in 15 yeas is complacent on
tour...

Quote:

>during the Zimbabwe tour. Laxman was criticized even by the
>Zimbabwe captain for not staying around longer and going for
>the big shots.

Haven't seen the quote. However I fail to see what evidence their is
that Laxman has changed his approach when he's been out of the team.

Quote:

>Another problem we had was the juggling of openers in the series.
>Ramesh was simply dropped, Ganguly after that decided to give
>Ramesh a longer run in SL and this seems to have paid off.

and facing Sri Lanka is so much like facing a decent seam attack on
faster wickets....

Quote:

>Overall we have now have a good balance to keep the ODI and
>Test series close. I don't think this series is going to be a whitewash.
>Also Allan Donald is not as sharp as he used to be.

Donald may not be as sharp as he used to be but Pollock is up there in
bowling ability and the new quicks are meant to be fairly sharp.

Note speed <> ability as a quick bowler.

Quote:

> I remember
>how Dravid and Ganguly were new and struggled in that tour, I
>think Ganguly and Dravid should be more positive and mature in
>this tour than the previous one as well.

Ganguly has done so well against top pace attacks in the past after
all....and he has been in such sparkling form with the bat since he
took over the captaincy...

Quote:

>> >- Agarkar and Srinath are solid

>> neither have been overly successful outside India in the past.

>Agarkar matured quite a bit

based on what?

Quote:

>and Srinath is getting his 3rd chance to SA.

and exactly what evidence has he shown that he's improved his bowling?

Quote:

> We also have planned the tour in such a way that
>Das is going to get used to the conditions early. That will be
>a big plus for us to prevent the crucial batting collapse.

exactly how is he being prepared to face Pollock?

Quote:

>> >and both Kumble and
>> > Harbhajan will be able to exploit the slow pitches in
>> > SA.

>> SA pitches aren't that slow. They aren't Perth but they're not slow.

>> > Report is that there could be some help to the
>> > spinners.

>> What's that got to do with Kumble?
>> Kumble in RSA
>> 7 409.5 851 26 6/53 8/113 32.73 2.07 94.5 1 0

>> his last tour
>> SA 3 155.2 384 8 3/40 4/103 48.00 2.47 116.5 0 0

>With better support from Srinath, Agarkar and Harbhajan along
>with Nehra and Khan, we should have a formidable attack. I think
>the problem in the past was both Srinath and Kumble did not have
>a solid support. The Indian bowling attack was not capable of
>keeping a fresh batsmen at the crease and Johnson and
>Ganesh had difficulty taking wickets.

None of the Indian quick bowlers have shown the ability to take
wickets consistantly outside India. Ditto for the spinners.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

>> >- SA traditionally have been problematic when they face
>> > spin bowlers. Hopefully Harbhajan and Kumble can be
>> > a good pair.

>> Um, RSA has had problems against Warne.
>> They've done pretty well against most other spinners.
>> Muralidharan has done pretty well against them too, but he's more
>> effective than Kumble in general and has a lot more experience than
>> Singh.

>> >- The Ramesh/Das pair is looking solid and I expect Sachin
>> > to be well protected from a top order batting collapse.

>> Ramesh & Das have not faced anything like Pollock outside of India.

>I am not expecting Ramesh and Das to score centuries, but even if they
>use up 20-25 overs and score a opening partnership of 50-75, that will be
>a big plus. In the past, Gandhi, Laxman, Rathore have simply failed to
>hold on. Sidhu if I can recall did not tour SA, which was a very crucial
>absence.

Well Sidhu never played against RSA

He did only average 33 away from home though...

Ramesh is averaging 27 over his past 10 tests.
Das has played against 1 decent attack and failed.

by **Nikhil Sha** » Sun, 30 Sep 2001 09:39:31

Quote:

> >The problem with the Indian team was the complacent attitude

Laxman was reported by Heath Streak, a being complacent, where he
referred to Das's grittyness quite effective. After winning the first Test,
we decided to drop Ramesh and also were not serious about winning
it 2-0. The Zimbabwe team is known for tenacity and they showed
by taking the Indians by surprise. Some of the shots played by the
Indian batsmen were cricticized.

Quote:

> >Another problem we had was the juggling of openers in the series.
> >Ramesh was simply dropped, Ganguly after that decided to give
> >Ramesh a longer run in SL and this seems to have paid off.

> and facing Sri Lanka is so much like facing a decent seam attack on
> faster wickets....

Vaas and Dilawaro are a good pair and the pitch was not all that
bad. I am seeing a marked improvement in them for being given
a longer run.

Quote:

> >Overall we have now have a good balance to keep the ODI and
> >Test series close. I don't think this series is going to be a whitewash.
> >Also Allan Donald is not as sharp as he used to be.

> Donald may not be as sharp as he used to be but Pollock is up there in
> bowling ability and the new quicks are meant to be fairly sharp.

> Note speed <> ability as a quick bowler.

Agree, not to understimate the SA opening bowlers. When Rathore
was touring SA he struggled last time, and exposed the middle order,
I see the Ramesh, Das pair well balanced. We have seen in the past
where Gavaskar and Sidhu were > some makeshift or not so good
openers. This balance is restored for opening pairs because to some
extent they can use up the hot water which is available in plenty in
Test matches before they expose the middle order. Our strength
has been the middle order and we can take better advantage of
this new pair that is development, thanks to Ganguly for having the
foresight to give them a longer run.

Quote:

> > I remember
> >how Dravid and Ganguly were new and struggled in that tour, I
> >think Ganguly and Dravid should be more positive and mature in
> >this tour than the previous one as well.

> Ganguly has done so well against top pace attacks in the past after
> all....and he has been in such sparkling form with the bat since he
> took over the captaincy...

Agreed, I think that will change,

Quote:

> >> >- Agarkar and Srinath are solid

> >> neither have been overly successful outside India in the past.

> >Agarkar matured quite a bit

> based on what?

> >and Srinath is getting his 3rd chance to SA.

> and exactly what evidence has he shown that he's improved his bowling?

> > We also have planned the tour in such a way that
> >Das is going to get used to the conditions early. That will be
> >a big plus for us to prevent the crucial batting collapse.

> exactly how is he being prepared to face Pollock?

With the experience and the mental feedback of having
several Tests in succession, which Ganguly made sure
both Ramesh and Das had gotten. The SL tour was an
example of the training and discipline required to be
opening partners.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> >> >and both Kumble and
> >> > Harbhajan will be able to exploit the slow pitches in
> >> > SA.

> >> SA pitches aren't that slow. They aren't Perth but they're not slow.

> >> > Report is that there could be some help to the
> >> > spinners.

> >> What's that got to do with Kumble?
> >> Kumble in RSA
> >> 7 409.5 851 26 6/53 8/113 32.73 2.07 94.5 1 0

> >> his last tour
> >> SA 3 155.2 384 8 3/40 4/103 48.00 2.47 116.5 0 0

> >With better support from Srinath, Agarkar and Harbhajan along
> >with Nehra and Khan, we should have a formidable attack. I think
> >the problem in the past was both Srinath and Kumble did not have
> >a solid support. The Indian bowling attack was not capable of
> >keeping a fresh batsmen at the crease and Johnson and
> >Ganesh had difficulty taking wickets.

> None of the Indian quick bowlers have shown the ability to take
> wickets consistantly outside India. Ditto for the spinners.

> >> >- SA traditionally have been problematic when they face
> >> > spin bowlers. Hopefully Harbhajan and Kumble can be
> >> > a good pair.

> >> Um, RSA has had problems against Warne.
> >> They've done pretty well against most other spinners.
> >> Muralidharan has done pretty well against them too, but he's more
> >> effective than Kumble in general and has a lot more experience than
> >> Singh.

> >> >- The Ramesh/Das pair is looking solid and I expect Sachin
> >> > to be well protected from a top order batting collapse.

> >> Ramesh & Das have not faced anything like Pollock outside of India.

I am not expecting Ramesh and Das to score big century, even a 10-15
wicketless partnership do the job. The Tests matches are low scoring
anyway.

Quote:

> >I am not expecting Ramesh and Das to score centuries, but even if they
> >use up 20-25 overs and score a opening partnership of 50-75, that will be
> >a big plus. In the past, Gandhi, Laxman, Rathore have simply failed to
> >hold on. Sidhu if I can recall did not tour SA, which was a very crucial
> >absence.

> Well Sidhu never played against RSA

> He did only average 33 away from home though...

> Ramesh is averaging 27 over his past 10 tests.
> Das has played against 1 decent attack and failed.

Overall quite happy with the situation.

Nikhil [should be a absorbing tour] Shah

by **R. Bharat Ra** » Mon, 01 Oct 2001 01:22:44

Quote:

> > >The problem with the Indian team was the complacent attitude

> Laxman was reported by Heath Streak, a being complacent, where he
> referred to Das's grittyness quite effective. After winning the first
Test,
> we decided to drop Ramesh and also were not serious about winning
> it 2-0. The Zimbabwe team is known for tenacity and they showed
> by taking the Indians by surprise. Some of the shots played by the
> Indian batsmen were cricticized.

We didn't drop Ramesh, Nikhil. He was injured -- his back went
out on him (I think he hurt himself taking a blinder of a catch in
T1, IIRC) -- no dropping involved; just injury.

I agree with your regarding the lack of resolve of the Indian bats,
in *both* Tests...

Bharat

--
R. Bharat Rao

In Monday's edition of USA Today, 49 percent of Americans polled
supported special IDs for Arabs, including U.S. citizens.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

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