Sport Today

Hi!

Can anyone help me with some questions regarding scoring? These deal
primarily with scoring and attributing runs on wides and on no balls.
Here they are:

1. According to law 25, a penalty of one run for a wide shall be scored
if no runs are made otherwise... [and] all runs which are run as a result
from a wide ball which is not a no ball shall be scored wide balls.

a.) Exactly how can batsmen score additional runs on a wide? Is it the case
that a wide can never be followed by a bye on the same ball?

b.) If a wide ball is called, and then the leg umpire subsequently calls
a no ball, does the leg umpires call supercede the wide call? Is it the case
that a bye cannot follow a no ball call on the same ball? Can a leg bye
be called on a no ball resulting from overstepping?

c.) Are all wides and no balls attributed to the bowlers runs total or
only as extras?

2. On some cards, each batsman is attributed to have batted so many
overs. Is this quantity the total number of balls bowled (expressed as
overs) while the batsman was at the crease?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
Rick Lampe

Di

*some* of the answers.  Other readers please note the unanswered
questions:
|
|Hi!
|
|Can anyone help me with some questions regarding scoring? These deal
|primarily with scoring and attributing runs on wides and on no balls.
|Here they are:
|
|1. According to law 25, a penalty of one run for a wide shall be scored
|if no runs are made otherwise... [and] all runs which are run as a result
|from a wide ball which is not a no ball shall be scored wide balls.
|
Generally, scores are either runs to the Batsman or extras, depending
on whether the ball hit the bat or not.  It is a contradiction in
terms to discuss the case of a wide in which the ball hits the bat;
if this happens, it is not a wide (Law 25.4).  It is also clear that
leg-byes cannot be scored on a wide (well, maybe *one-day* wides).
So any runs scored on a wide have to be what would normally be considered
byes, unless "no ball" has been called, in which case they would be
scored as no-balls, whether there was a wide or not.  The Law to which
you are alluding simply states the precedence:  If a score can be
recorded either as a no-ball or as a wide, it is recorded as a no-ball;
if a score can be recorded either as a wide or as a bye, it is recorded
as a bye.

DO NOT be confused when the Umpire signals a wide or no-ball and then
gives the bye sign by raising an open hand above his head.  This is
the standard procedure for telling you that the ball did not make
contact with the bat, and therefore the runs should be scored as
extras (wides or no-balls, as the case may be), rather than as runs
to the Batsman.  You are *not* being instructed to score runs as
byes.  Of course this signal may seem otiose after a wide, since
there is no question of whether or not the ball was played, but
in the case of a no-ball the presence or absence of this signal is
important.

(And to Umpires:  In the case of a leg-bye on a no-ball, the correct
signals are the no-ball signal followed by the *bye* signal.  It is
of no importance whatsoever in this case whether the ball hit the
Batsman or not: runs are scored either for the Batsman or as no-balls,
and the bye signal tells which.)
|
|a.) Exactly how can batsmen score additional runs on a wide? Is it the case
|that a wide can never be followed by a bye on the same ball?

By what would normally be known as byes.  (There could also be
overthrows or penalties for illegal fielding, to mention some other
possibilities.)

There could be what you might call a bye, but all runs on a ball in
which "wide" is called would be scored as wides, unless no-ball was
also called.
|
|b.) If a wide ball is called, and then the leg umpire subsequently calls
|a no ball, does the leg umpires call supercede the wide call? Is it the case
|that a bye cannot follow a no ball call on the same ball? Can a leg bye
|be called on a no ball resulting from overstepping?

If one Umpire calls a wide and the other calls a no-ball, then the ball
is a no-ball, and all runs resulting, unless from the bat (in which
case the wide call was in error) are scored as no-balls.  A bye can
follow a no ball call, but it would be scored as a no-ball.  A leg
bye can occur on a no-ball resulting from just about anything, but it
would be signalled as "no-ball", "bye", and scored as a no-ball.
|
|c.) Are all wides and no balls attributed to the bowlers runs total or
|only as extras?
|
I would await a definitive answer from someone else, but I believe
these are charged to the Bowler under current practice.
|
|2. On some cards, each batsman is attributed to have batted so many
|overs. Is this quantity the total number of balls bowled (expressed as
|overs) while the batsman was at the crease?

You got me here.

Take it easy,
--

The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill  
I can't speak for UNC-CH, and UNC-CH can't speak for me.
It's better for both of us.

Since then all wides and no balls have counted against the bowler, including any extras
run or penalties incurred (as described by Ron in his full and exemplary answer - except
for one typo when it appears to read that a bye supersedes a wide).

It always has been necessary to make a separate note of wides and no balls conceded by
the bowler in order to be able to show that the bowling analysis balances (i.e. that the
number of balls delivered by the bowler and recorded in the various parts of the score
sheet add up to the same totals.)  Note also that the columns for wides and no balls in
the bowling analysis should contain only tally marks to count deliveries.  A Wide would
be recorded as 1, (not , for example 4 if it had gone to the boundary) to indicate that
an extra delivery ahd been sent down.  In the over box it should appear as a + with four
dots. Note that a No Ball which the batsman has hit for runs will not appear in the
extras part of the batting sheet, since the runs have all been recorded to the striker.
(Law 24.8 states that the penalty for a No Ball shall be scored _if no runs are made
otherwise_)

Roy Harrison
Winchester

|If a score can be
|recorded either as a no-ball or as a wide, it is recorded as a no-ball;
|if a score can be recorded either as a wide or as a bye, it is recorded
|as a bye.
|
How embarrassing.  The last word there should be "wide", not "bye".

Take it easy,
--

The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill  
I can't speak for UNC-CH, and UNC-CH can't speak for me.
It's better for both of us.

____________________________________________________________________________
In 1972, a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for
a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum
security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the
government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem,
if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the
A-Team.
____________________________________________________________________________

Didds.
Devizes RFC.
Disclaimer : The opinions expressed are solely those of the author.
                 And are probably wrong anyway.

I have just got back to rec.sport.cricket after several months absence and
I have greatly enjoyed this correspondence initiated by Rick Lampe. I was
impressed by the standard of discussion.

May I draw your attention to a little book on scoring which deals with all
these matters.
It is by Derek Hibbs 'Cricket Scoring, a Handbook for Scorers in Club
Cricket'. It is available from him  at 21 Cleevelands Avenue, Cheltenham
GL50 4PY, UK (Price two pounds 95 p + 30p p&p).

I do not have any financial interst in this work!

However, I do have an interest in my own book on umpiring ? see
http://www.internet-design.ie/cricket-umpiring!

Thanks again for the discussion.

Alan

This is the convention used by The Association of Cricket Statisticians (if I remember
their title correctly) and as taught by the Association of Cricket Umpires and Scorers.

Roy Harrison