TUDOR-The next force for ENGLAND

TUDOR-The next force for ENGLAND

Post by Sunil Meno » Sat, 16 May 1998 04:00:00


Mr ALex Tudor is a fast bowler, and he is young, I don't think that it
would hurt england to maybe pick him for one of the matches, I think there
may be one bowling place not guranteed in the side, and maybe he should
fill the void.  He will be big soon, I guarantee that, he could have the
south africans quaking

England side for most of the summer(probable)

Knight
Atherton
Stewart(wk/c)
Hussain
Thorpe
Ramprakash
Hollioake.A
Croft(most likely however if not then tuffers)
Gough
Headley
Fraser( definite for first few but after that maybe
Malcolm/Lewis/Cork/Giddens/Tudor)

The openers will have Butcher and Maddy waiting in the wing if they fail.
And hollioake could get replaced by Croft and then a 4 pace attack could
be used.

Well what do you guys/girls think of that, or have I just said the obvious

SUNIL MENON
(FAN OF RAMPRAKASH & KAMBLI)

 
 
 

TUDOR-The next force for ENGLAND

Post by MG » Sat, 16 May 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> England side for most of the summer(probable)

> Knight
> Atherton
> Stewart(wk/c)
> Hussain
> Thorpe
> Ramprakash
> Hollioake.A
> Croft(most likely however if not then tuffers)
> Gough
> Headley
> Fraser( definite for first few but after that maybe
> Malcolm/Lewis/Cork/Giddens/Tudor)

Look, for the last time, Stewart must open the batting !  He averages about 47 there, I think,
which must put him at or near the top world-wide.  Therefore, he cannot keep wicket.  Who's the
next keeper in line ?  Hegg ?  I think he can bat a bit too.

Adam H isn't up to it.  I'd rather see dibbly-dobbly Ealham at 7, or take a flier on Ben H.  My
first-choice spinner would be Tuffers, provided the captain actually lets him attack the
batsmen.

Gough (wearenotworthywearenotworthy) and Cork are surely the first two quicks to be picked,
then perm any one from Fraser, Headley etc.  

Stewart and (on current form anyway) Athers to open (although I can all too easily imagine MA
standing chest-on to Donald, bat pushed out and 2nd slip celebrating).  One of the usual
suspects at 3.

--
Mike Gooding

"Never forget, my boy, that you were born an Englishman; and have therefore won first prize in
the lottery of Life""

 
 
 

TUDOR-The next force for ENGLAND

Post by Offi » Sat, 16 May 1998 04:00:00

Quote:
>Mr ALex Tudor is a fast bowler, and he is young, I don't think that it
>would hurt england to maybe pick him for one of the matches, I think there
>may be one bowling place not guranteed in the side, and maybe he should
>fill the void.  He will be big soon, I guarantee that, he could have the
>south africans quaking

Ive been asking about Mister Tudor on this newsgroup for a year now, and still
am not able to understand just why he seems to be left off his county XI most
of the time. What *is* going on? He was injured early last season, I know - but
what has happened since? Is he bowling *so* badly that a prospective England
cap cant even crack his county line-up?

Sadiq [ still wondering ] Yusuf

 
 
 

TUDOR-The next force for ENGLAND

Post by John Hal » Sat, 16 May 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

>>Mr ALex Tudor is a fast bowler, and he is young, I don't think that it
>>would hurt england to maybe pick him for one of the matches, I think there
>>may be one bowling place not guranteed in the side, and maybe he should
>>fill the void.  He will be big soon, I guarantee that, he could have the
>>south africans quaking

>Ive been asking about Mister Tudor on this newsgroup for a year now, and still
>am not able to understand just why he seems to be left off his county XI most
>of the time. What *is* going on? He was injured early last season, I know - but
>what has happened since? Is he bowling *so* badly that a prospective England
>cap cant even crack his county line-up?

When he did play last season, he seemed to have lost his rhythm, and was
ineffective and expensive. I don't know why he missed the first two
Championship matches of this season, whether he had a minor injury or
whether the pitches were too slow to suit him. However, he's played in
the current match against Hampshire with considerable success (7 cheap
wickets in the match, on a wicket on which Surrey themselves made 591).
He's no mug with the bat, either.
--
John Hall

                  "It is never difficult to distinguish between
                   a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine."
                                        P.G.Wodehouse (1881-1975)

 
 
 

TUDOR-The next force for ENGLAND

Post by John Hal » Sat, 16 May 1998 04:00:00



Quote:
>Mr ALex Tudor is a fast bowler, and he is young, I don't think that it
>would hurt england to maybe pick him for one of the matches, I think there
>may be one bowling place not guranteed in the side, and maybe he should
>fill the void.  He will be big soon, I guarantee that, he could have the
>south africans quaking

He's certainly a fine prospect. He seemed to rather lose his rhythm last
season, and went backwards, but hopefully he has put that behind him. As
a Surrey supporter, I'm both pleased and slightly alarmed that we have
so many candidates for England places, since we could lose up to 4 or 5
players for a substantial proportion of our Championship fixtures.
--
John Hall

                  "It is never difficult to distinguish between
                   a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine."
                                        P.G.Wodehouse (1881-1975)

 
 
 

TUDOR-The next force for ENGLAND

Post by Jack Brama » Sat, 16 May 1998 04:00:00



Quote:
>>Mr ALex Tudor is a fast bowler, and he is young, I don't think that it
>>would hurt england to maybe pick him for one of the matches, I think there
>>may be one bowling place not guranteed in the side, and maybe he should
>>fill the void.  He will be big soon, I guarantee that, he could have the
>>south africans quaking

>Ive been asking about Mister Tudor on this newsgroup for a year now, and still
>am not able to understand just why he seems to be left off his county XI most
>of the time. What *is* going on? He was injured early last season, I know - but
>what has happened since? Is he bowling *so* badly that a prospective England
>cap cant even crack his county line-up?

>Sadiq [ still wondering ] Yusuf

He seems to have taken a few wickets in the most recent CC match.

He was the scariest bowler I have ever faced - and he was only twelve at
the time!

--

Ser galego mis ca nacer en Galicia

 
 
 

TUDOR-The next force for ENGLAND

Post by Rob Malpa » Sun, 17 May 1998 04:00:00



Quote:

>Mr ALex Tudor is a fast bowler, and he is young, I don't think that it
>would hurt england to maybe pick him for one of the matches, I think there
>may be one bowling place not guranteed in the side, and maybe he should
>fill the void.  He will be big soon, I guarantee that, he could have the
>south africans quaking

I believe Tudor picked up a back injury last year (which is obviously a bad
injury for a fast bowler and particularly in one so young).   I think Surrey
are doing him no favours by treating him with kid gloves.   The thinking is
that "a bowler only has so many overs in him".   However most fast bowlers
fade around the age of 35.   I'm not sure how old Tudor is but I reckon he's
20+.   I'd rather see an express 20 year old than a lively 30 year old.

Another problem with Tudor (not that I've seen him that much is that he
is inclined too often to revert to a short run and cut his pace down).   The
great Richard Hadlee will tell him that alternating between a no-holds-barred
fast bowler and an accurate medium-pacer is fraught with problems in terms
of training, rhythm and timings.

Quote:

>England side for most of the summer(probable)

>Knight
>Atherton

He'll need a bit more form to convince me.   One big hundred against Kent
(with Headley absent) is no great evidence of his return to form.   Butcher
instead I think.

Quote:
>Stewart(wk/c)
>Hussain
>Thorpe
>Ramprakash
>Hollioake.A

No, I think he's ok as a one-day player, but I'd suggest his brother at 7.

Quote:
>Croft(most likely however if not then tuffers)
>Gough
>Headley
>Fraser( definite for first few but after that maybe
>Malcolm/Lewis/Cork/Giddens/Tudor)

On the whole I agree with your selection.   My preferred 11 for tests would be:

Assuming Stewart keeps wicket:

Knight
Maddy
Stewart
Hussain
Thorpe
Ramprakash
B Hollioake
Croft
Cork
Gough
Fraser

If Stewart doesn't keep wicket :

Knight
Stewart
Maddy
Thorpe
Hussain
Ramprakash
B Hollioake
Croft
Cork
Gough
Fraser

I'm not having Stewart open if he keeps wicket.   Simple as that.

Cheers
Rob

 
 
 

TUDOR-The next force for ENGLAND

Post by Mark Lyt » Sun, 17 May 1998 04:00:00

Quote:



>>Mr ALex Tudor is a fast bowler, and he is young, I don't think that it
>>would hurt england to maybe pick him for one of the matches, I think there
>>may be one bowling place not guranteed in the side, and maybe he should
>>fill the void.  He will be big soon, I guarantee that, he could have the
>>south africans quaking

>I believe Tudor picked up a back injury last year (which is obviously a bad
>injury for a fast bowler and particularly in one so young).   I think
Surrey
>are doing him no favours by treating him with kid gloves.   The thinking is
>that "a bowler only has so many overs in him".   However most fast bowlers
>fade around the age of 35.   I'm not sure how old Tudor is but I reckon
he's
>20+.   I'd rather see an express 20 year old than a lively 30 year old.

>Another problem with Tudor (not that I've seen him that much is that he
>is inclined too often to revert to a short run and cut his pace down).
The
>great Richard Hadlee will tell him that alternating between a
no-holds-barred
>fast bowler and an accurate medium-pacer is fraught with problems in terms
>of training, rhythm and timings.

>>England side for most of the summer(probable)

>>Knight
>>Atherton

>He'll need a bit more form to convince me.   One big hundred against Kent
>(with Headley absent) is no great evidence of his return to form.   Butcher
>instead I think.

>>Stewart(wk/c)
>>Hussain
>>Thorpe
>>Ramprakash
>>Hollioake.A

>No, I think he's ok as a one-day player, but I'd suggest his brother at 7.

>>Croft(most likely however if not then tuffers)
>>Gough
>>Headley
>>Fraser( definite for first few but after that maybe
>>Malcolm/Lewis/Cork/Giddens/Tudor)

>On the whole I agree with your selection.   My preferred 11 for tests would
be:

>Assuming Stewart keeps wicket:

>Knight
>Maddy
>Stewart
>Hussain
>Thorpe
>Ramprakash
>B Hollioake
>Croft
>Cork
>Gough
>Fraser

>If Stewart doesn't keep wicket :

>Knight
>Stewart
>Maddy
>Thorpe
>Hussain
>Ramprakash
>B Hollioake
>Croft
>Cork
>Gough
>Fraser

>I'm not having Stewart open if he keeps wicket.   Simple as that.

>Cheers
>Rob

My XI would be:

1.Atherton
2.Stewart
3.R A Smith
4.Thorpe
5.Hick
6.Hussain
7.Cork
8.Gough
9.Fraser
10.Caddick
11.Croft/Tufnell(Depends on pitch)

If Stewart thinks he can keep wicket/captain/open let him, if not lose
Caddick and bring in Warren Hegg or Steven Rhodes.

Regards

Mark Lyth

 
 
 

TUDOR-The next force for ENGLAND

Post by Rob Malpa » Sun, 17 May 1998 04:00:00



Quote:
>My XI would be:

>1.Atherton
>2.Stewart
>3.R A Smith
>4.Thorpe
>5.Hick
>6.Hussain
>7.Cork
>8.Gough
>9.Fraser
>10.Caddick
>11.Croft/Tufnell(Depends on pitch)

Robin Smith could well be worth picking.   His weakness against spin is hardly
likely to be exploited by Adams and Symcox.   Could be a wise choice.   I
think Ramps deserves a place.   Those of you who remember my hostility to him
in 1995 may find this surprising, but he came good on the tour of the
Caribbean and looked at home against fast bowling.   He'll need to be against
SA.

Overall, I think your side is too loaded with ***s.   I'd drop Caddick
and replace so as to play both Croft and Tufnell.

Atherton instead of Knight - a bold move.

Cheers
Rob

 
 
 

TUDOR-The next force for ENGLAND

Post by Mark Jeffe » Mon, 18 May 1998 04:00:00

On Fri, 15 May 1998 09:18:30 +0100, Sunil Menon

Quote:

>England side for most of the summer(probable)

>Knight
>Atherton
>Stewart(wk/c)
>Hussain
>Thorpe
>Ramprakash
>Hollioake.A
>Croft(most likely however if not then tuffers)
>Gough
>Headley
>Fraser( definite for first few but after that maybe
>Malcolm/Lewis/Cork/Giddens/Tudor)

Stray thoughts from an unbiased Aussie:

Does Atherton's form of the last few years really justify his
retention?

I hope Ramprakash finally makes a success of his somewhat sporadic
test career but, frankly, I still have my doubts that he's up to it -
despite his Carribean heroics.

I'm sorry, but from what I've seen Adam Hollioake is simply not test
class as a batsman and probably not even up to first-class standard as
a bowler.  England seem to persist in their post-Botham determination
to pick an allrounder.  Fair enough, but an allrounder should really
be worth his place as either a batsman or a bowler.  In-betweens like
Hollioake and Ealham (not to forget Reeve, Capel, et al) are nothing
more or less than a waste of space in a cricket team.  (And I wish the
Australian selectors would see the light regarding Ian Harvey for that
matter!) Hollioake may well be worth his place in the ODI team, but
the point of making him captain if Stewart is going to play ODIs
completely escapes me.  His younger brother, on the other hand, seems
to me to be worth ***ing and persevering with.

Croft?  Why?  He was a liability for the last two or three tests he
played in last year's Ashes series, rarely looking the slightest bit
threatening.  Tufnell, though, bowled with flight, some turn, change
of pace and a refrshingly attacking attitude at the Oval.  I know he
doesn't always live up to this standard but he seems a far better bet
than Croft.  His batting isn't all that much worse either.

As for Fraser, I suspect every non-English cricket follwer in the
world is perplexed when the Poms leave him out.  He's one of a very
small handful of truly classy English pace bowlers of the last two
decades and should be picked for as long as he can walk.

Mark

 
 
 

TUDOR-The next force for ENGLAND

Post by sjagad.. » Tue, 19 May 1998 04:00:00

I'm sure the Poms on RSC said "The Hollioakes" are the next great force for
England. And look what they've done ?

jagadish - btw I think the Cricinfo survey (Who's the better Hollioake ?) is
           certainly dumb ;)

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/   Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading

 
 
 

TUDOR-The next force for ENGLAND

Post by John Hal » Tue, 19 May 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

>I'm sure the Poms on RSC said "The Hollioakes" are the next great force for
>England. And look what they've done ?

I don't think *all* of then have said that. Anyway, give them time. It's
still early days, especially for Ben (who gave clear evidence of his
potential last winter by scoring two "Test" centuries for England A
against Sri Lanka A).

Quote:

>jagadish - btw I think the Cricinfo survey (Who's the better Hollioake ?) is
>           certainly dumb ;)

My main problem with it is that currently the answer is Adam, but within
12 months it should be Ben.
--
John Hall

                  "Take the tone of the company you are in."
                               The Earl of Chesterfield (1694-1773)

 
 
 

TUDOR-The next force for ENGLAND

Post by Mike Holman » Tue, 19 May 1998 04:00:00


Quote:

>I'm sure the Poms on RSC said "The Hollioakes" are the next great force for
>England. And look what they've done ?

I didn't. They're young. They might be. As yet, they've not done alot. I
think Ben looks more promising than Adam, but then I thought Ramprakash
was brilliant at that age too.

Cheers,

Mike

The exciting AFU FAQ, and many other things, may be found at
http://www.urbanlegends.com

 
 
 

TUDOR-The next force for ENGLAND

Post by Tim Cotsfor » Wed, 20 May 1998 04:00:00

Quote:

> I'm sure the Poms on RSC said "The Hollioakes" are the next great force for
> England. And look what they've done ?

> jagadish - btw I think the Cricinfo survey (Who's the better Hollioake ?) is
>            certainly dumb ;)

> -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> http://www.dejanews.com/   Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading

I don't think it was The Poms on rsc at all, in fact most of us were fairly
circumspect in our judgement, we all sort of said let's give them some time.
The papers, now yes they have rather hyped the pair.........

Cheers

Tim

 
 
 

TUDOR-The next force for ENGLAND

Post by Rohan Chandr » Wed, 20 May 1998 04:00:00


Quote:
>think Ben looks more promising than Adam, but then I thought Ramprakash
>was brilliant at that age too.

And you were right once, so who's to say lightning won't strike twice?

cheers,

Rohan.
--
MR Ramprakash, FEC