Sport Today

by **Sanjiv Karmarka** » Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:05:41

Assuming Robin Uthappa plays on Wednesday; would he be the first Coorg
ever to play for India?

Are there many Christians among Coorgs or is Robin just a 'fashionable'
name?

Sanjiv

by **Afzal A. Kha** » Mon, 10 Apr 2006 23:01:50

Quote:

> Assuming Robin Uthappa plays on Wednesday; would he be the first Coorg
> ever to play for India?

> Are there many Christians among Coorgs or is Robin just a 'fashionable'
> name?

> Sanjiv

Many of them are Christians --- I think it is a separate sect
called Syrian Christians. One such prominent Coorg was
Field Marshal K. M. Cariappa.

A. A. Khan

by **asi..** » Mon, 10 Apr 2006 23:32:23

Quote:

> > Assuming Robin Uthappa plays on Wednesday; would he be the first Coorg
> > ever to play for India?

> > Are there many Christians among Coorgs or is Robin just a 'fashionable'
> > name?

> > Sanjiv

> Many of them are Christians --- I think it is a separate sect
> called Syrian Christians. One such prominent Coorg was
> Field Marshal K. M. Cariappa.

No, they are not. A vast majority of them, including F.M. Cariappa was
a Kodava. They are Hindus but do not follow traditional Brahmin
priests. Syrian Christians are largely based in Kerala.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coorg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_Marshal_Kodandera_Madappa_Cariappa

Cheers
Arun

by **cricketu..** » Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:16:31

Curious to know from the folks of diverse backgrounds here, is "Kunder"
a Coorgi or Mangalorean/Tulu or a Konkani community?

by **Ram** » Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:13:57

Quote:

> Assuming Robin Uthappa plays on Wednesday; would he be the first Coorg
> ever to play for India?

I think so. There is Budhi Kunderan that I can think of but he is about
100 km off the beat.

Quote:

> Are there many Christians among Coorgs or is Robin just a 'fashionable'
> name?

> Sanjiv

by **amm..** » Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:45:22

Quote:

> > > Assuming Robin Uthappa plays on Wednesday; would he be the first Coorg
> > > ever to play for India?

> > > Are there many Christians among Coorgs or is Robin just a 'fashionable'
> > > name?

> > > Sanjiv

> > Many of them are Christians --- I think it is a separate sect
> > called Syrian Christians. One such prominent Coorg was
> > Field Marshal K. M. Cariappa.

> No, they are not. A vast majority of them, including F.M. Cariappa was
> a Kodava. They are Hindus but do not follow traditional Brahmin
> priests. Syrian Christians are largely based in Kerala.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coorg
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_Marshal_Kodandera_Madappa_Cariappa

Kodavas may be nominally Hindu, but their ethnic origins are a little
lost in the
cobwebs of time and human migration. Some ethnologist who studied them
closely discovered that they are brave people who only fear the sky
falling on
their heads. They also tend to be martially inclined and are known to
celebrate
their inevitable victories with a feast of wild boar.

Studies are now under way to determine which historical tribe may
have shown similar tendencies.

- SLS

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> Cheers
> Arun

by **diivolun** » Wed, 12 Apr 2006 04:18:26

Most of kodagus or Kodavas depends on how you know them are
traditionally Hindus.
(they are also called Coorgs but never coorgis for obvious reasons
though i am sure some corgis may be found in coorg)
They are one of easier identified examples of non-traditional Hindus.
Literally, each Indian caste in a regional setting is a distinct type
of Hindu but Kodagus are more easier example.

Having said that they speak a dravidian tongue with north Indian
features. Under Hyder Ali there was fashion to claim to a arabian
origin, under Vijayanagar, northern origins..
Literally, one dy*** chengalvas ruled the small district homogenizing
it into a separate people from their neighbours, the karnatas and tulus
for a long long time thus creating an identity. (ethnically many of
residents may be related Tulus speaking different language).

They are fond of Guns, 4000 gun licenses and 18000 legal guns were in
the district in 1989 (literally twice as many Guns as were available to
Delhi police than, largest Indian police force).
In 1988, the demand arose for a separate statehood which was deemed
very fishy from area which gives more than larger per capita share of
soldiers. The worying fact was that region was heavily armed but no
Gurkhaland style activity happenned.
The lightly armed customs officers do not have problems controlling
this region because people are very law abiding.
Now this might be controversial, a new party lauched a statehood
movement which had relatively larger than population percentage
christian leadership and allegedly funded by
foreign missionary funds. (not the foreign hand stuff, the funds may
have been sent for other purposes and were diverted to fund this
party). Again, the movement remained political without turning ***
and original leadership was replaced.

Robin is a common enough Hindu name, found in Bengal, UP, West Indies
and now Coorg. :-)

Two Indian captains may claim Coorgi or Kodagu as their mother tongues,
Ravi Jaidrath Shastri and Dilip Balwant Vengsarkar's mothers speak the
language.
Both were not born in the region. Shastri was close by though.

regards
Pranshu B Saxena

by **asi..** » Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:18:22

Quote:

> Most of kodagus or Kodavas depends on how you know them are
> traditionally Hindus.
> (they are also called Coorgs but never coorgis for obvious reasons
> though i am sure some corgis may be found in coorg)
> They are one of easier identified examples of non-traditional Hindus.
> Literally, each Indian caste in a regional setting is a distinct type
> of Hindu but Kodagus are more easier example.

> Having said that they speak a dravidian tongue with north Indian
> features. Under Hyder Ali there was fashion to claim to a arabian
> origin, under Vijayanagar, northern origins..
> Literally, one dy*** chengalvas ruled the small district homogenizing
> it into a separate people from their neighbours, the karnatas and tulus
> for a long long time thus creating an identity. (ethnically many of
> residents may be related Tulus speaking different language).

> They are fond of Guns, 4000 gun licenses and 18000 legal guns were in
> the district in 1989 (literally twice as many Guns as were available to
> Delhi police than, largest Indian police force).
> In 1988, the demand arose for a separate statehood which was deemed
> very fishy from area which gives more than larger per capita share of
> soldiers. The worying fact was that region was heavily armed but no
> Gurkhaland style activity happenned.
> The lightly armed customs officers do not have problems controlling
> this region because people are very law abiding.
> Now this might be controversial, a new party lauched a statehood
> movement which had relatively larger than population percentage
> christian leadership and allegedly funded by
> foreign missionary funds. (not the foreign hand stuff, the funds may
> have been sent for other purposes and were diverted to fund this
> party). Again, the movement remained political without turning ***
> and original leadership was replaced.

> Robin is a common enough Hindu name, found in Bengal, UP, West Indies
> and now Coorg. :-)

> Two Indian captains may claim Coorgi or Kodagu as their mother tongues,
> Ravi Jaidrath Shastri and Dilip Balwant Vengsarkar's mothers speak the
> language.
> Both were not born in the region. Shastri was close by though.

> regards
> Pranshu B Saxena

Really? I always felt that Ravi Shastri's mother was a Kannadiga from
Mangalore. Isn't her sister, the former (Maharashtra) state minister
Lalita Rao? RJS's mother may know Tulu since most people from South
Kanara do. I didn't know he was connected to Kodagu in any way. If he
was, Kannada magazines would've mentioned it. :-)

I didn't know DBV's mother was from a Konkani area, leave alone from
Kodagu. This is rather interesting.

Cheers
Arun

by **diivolun** » Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:00:18

Quote:

> > Two Indian captains may claim Coorgi or Kodagu as their mother tongues,
> > Ravi Jaidrath Shastri and Dilip Balwant Vengsarkar's mothers speak the
> > language.
> > Both were not born in the region. Shastri was close by though.

> > regards
> > Pranshu B Saxena

> Really? I always felt that Ravi Shastri's mother was a Kannadiga from
> Mangalore. Isn't her sister, the former (Maharashtra) state minister
> Lalita Rao? RJS's mother may know Tulu since most people from South
> Kanara do. I didn't know he was connected to Kodagu in any way. If he
> was, Kannada magazines would've mentioned it. :-)

> I didn't know DBV's mother was from a Konkani area, leave alone from
> Kodagu. This is rather interesting.

> Cheers
> Arun

We have had RSC discussion on coorg before, it was samarth who pointed
out the coorgi roots of Shastri and Vengsarkar...

honestly, so many topics keep coming up again with so regularity...
regards
Pranshu B Saxena

by **Sears Towe** » Fri, 14 Apr 2006 05:30:37

An rscer forwarded this via email and aksed me to comment.
So here goes:

Quote:

> Robin is a common enough Hindu name, found in Bengal, UP, West Indies
> and now Coorg. :-)

In Coorg, it is quite common to have nicknames like Robin, Rahul, Arun,
Ben,
Ajay etc. besides their real names, and it is also common to address them
such.

Quote:

> Two Indian captains may claim Coorgi or Kodagu as their mother tongues,
> Ravi Jaidrath Shastri and Dilip Balwant Vengsarkar's mothers speak the
> language.
> Both were not born in the region. Shastri was close by though.

To the best of my knowledge, neither Shastri or Vengsarkar have any Coorg
connections.

Quote:

> regards
> Pranshu B Saxena

by **Southpa** » Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:44:55

Quote:

> An rscer forwarded this via email and aksed me to comment.
> So here goes:

> <coorg history snipped>

> > Robin is a common enough Hindu name, found in Bengal, UP, West Indies
> > and now Coorg. :-)
> In Coorg, it is quite common to have nicknames like Robin, Rahul, Arun,
> Ben,
> Ajay etc. besides their real names, and it is also common to address them
> such.

> > Two Indian captains may claim Coorgi or Kodagu as their mother tongues,
> > Ravi Jaidrath Shastri and Dilip Balwant Vengsarkar's mothers speak the
> > language.
> > Both were not born in the region. Shastri was close by though.

> To the best of my knowledge, neither Shastri or Vengsarkar have any Coorg
> connections.

FWIW, the first line of Shastri's Wikipedia page says his family hailed
from Mangalore. It was kind of accepted in my family when I was growing
up that Shastri's native tongue was Tulu. I don't know what the basis
of that belief was. The same was suspected of Vengsarkar also, but
folks were far less sure about him.

-Samarth.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> > regards
> > Pranshu B Saxena

by dp » Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:54:45

Quote:

> > > Two Indian captains may claim Coorgi or Kodagu as their mother tongues,
> > > Ravi Jaidrath Shastri and Dilip Balwant Vengsarkar's mothers speak the
> > > language.
> > > Both were not born in the region. Shastri was close by though.

> > To the best of my knowledge, neither Shastri or Vengsarkar have any Coorg
> > connections.

> FWIW, the first line of Shastri's Wikipedia page says his family hailed
> from Mangalore. It was kind of accepted in my family when I was growing
> up that Shastri's native tongue was Tulu.

Shastri does have origins in Mangalore, not sure about Vengsarkar. But
Mangalore is not part of Coorg, nor do Coorgi's speak Tulu. They speak
Kodava language.

dp

by **Southpa** » Fri, 14 Apr 2006 19:13:23

Quote:

> > > > Two Indian captains may claim Coorgi or Kodagu as their mother tongues,
> > > > Ravi Jaidrath Shastri and Dilip Balwant Vengsarkar's mothers speak the
> > > > language.
> > > > Both were not born in the region. Shastri was close by though.

> > > To the best of my knowledge, neither Shastri or Vengsarkar have any Coorg
> > > connections.

> > FWIW, the first line of Shastri's Wikipedia page says his family hailed
> > from Mangalore. It was kind of accepted in my family when I was growing
> > up that Shastri's native tongue was Tulu.

> Shastri does have origins in Mangalore, not sure about Vengsarkar. But
> Mangalore is not part of Coorg, nor do Coorgi's speak Tulu. They speak
> Kodava language.

I didn't mention anything about Coorg. I wasn't trying to refute what
Lenin said.

-Samarth.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> dp

by dp » Fri, 14 Apr 2006 19:56:26

Quote:

> > > > > Two Indian captains may claim Coorgi or Kodagu as their mother tongues,
> > > > > Ravi Jaidrath Shastri and Dilip Balwant Vengsarkar's mothers speak the
> > > > > language.
> > > > > Both were not born in the region. Shastri was close by though.

> > > > To the best of my knowledge, neither Shastri or Vengsarkar have any Coorg
> > > > connections.

> > > FWIW, the first line of Shastri's Wikipedia page says his family hailed
> > > from Mangalore. It was kind of accepted in my family when I was growing
> > > up that Shastri's native tongue was Tulu.

> > Shastri does have origins in Mangalore, not sure about Vengsarkar. But
> > Mangalore is not part of Coorg, nor do Coorgi's speak Tulu. They speak
> > Kodava language.

> I didn't mention anything about Coorg.

ok. My mistake.

Quote:

> I wasn't trying to refute what
> Lenin said.

Ah, that's who Sears Tower is. Was wondering, thanks :-)

dp

by **Sanjiv Karmarka** » Fri, 14 Apr 2006 23:22:57

Quote:

> The same was suspected of Vengsarkar also, but
> folks were far less sure about him.

Vengsarkar is a Saraswat Brahmin and like most GSBs is Marathi with
strong Konkani heritage. His mom is actually grew up speaking a
Konkani, although they speak Marathi at home. My source? His brother,
who was a 'medical representitive' for Searle and used to visit my Dr
uncle in Girgaon, Mumbai.

The contribution of Saraswats to Indian cricket is simply amazing;
given how small their community really is.

Sanjiv