Thanks God, Mr. "I am the one with the MOST sportsman spirit" Gilchrist

Thanks God, Mr. "I am the one with the MOST sportsman spirit" Gilchrist

Post by The Wo » Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:14:27



Quote:





Quote:



> <snip>

> > No one needs courage to look into it, it just
> > has to be reported to him.  A MR cannot lay charges.
> > Manuel did in this case.  It has NOTHING to do with Proctor or lloyd.

> Shripathi, I have not read anywhere that it was Manuel who laid the
charges.
> But that is probably because I have only read a few articles today. As
such,
> would be much obliged if you could inform where this is stated. Many
thanks.

According to SMGPH, "the pair were reported by umpires Billy Bowden and
Peter Manuel", as is required by the Laws which instruct "the umpires" to
report.
 
 
 

Thanks God, Mr. "I am the one with the MOST sportsman spirit" Gilchrist

Post by RodP » Thu, 26 Feb 2004 04:25:17



Quote:




> > > It was 2 bean balls you fool.  Waqar is lucky he didn't get his head
> kicked
> > > in.

> > Vague recollection of Symonds advancing a few steps down the wicket to
> > have a go at Waqar, possibly leaving himself open to be stumped (or run
> > out, would have been interesting had the keeper hit the stumps).

> How do you figure? You can't be stumped from a no ball.

> Wog

(which is why I included run out)

Considering Symonds advanced down the wicket and my recollection was
that the keeper did attempt to hit the stumps, if he had hit, what
would the outcome have been?

Cheers,
Rod.

 
 
 

Thanks God, Mr. "I am the one with the MOST sportsman spirit" Gilchrist

Post by Andrew M » Thu, 26 Feb 2004 05:13:50


says...

Quote:




>> says...

>> >I bet if Symonds was given out in such a manner, he would go with the
>> >bat after the umpire....just as he went after Waqar Younis, when he
>> >bowled 2 bouncers in the world cup match in an over.

>>One would imagine that the balls in question bowled by Waqar would have had to
>> bounce to be considered bouncers, but don't let that fact get in the way of a
>> good argument.

>Ok, yeah that was ignorance on my part...I couldnt recall correctly if
>they were bouncers or beamers..but,that sure has nothing to do with
>what I was trying to say about Symonds behaviour....

Have someone bowl 2 150kmph balls straight at you and see how you react.

 
 
 

Thanks God, Mr. "I am the one with the MOST sportsman spirit" Gilchrist

Post by Ron Knigh » Thu, 26 Feb 2004 07:17:53

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:25:17 GMT, RodP

Quote:







>> > > It was 2 bean balls you fool.  Waqar is lucky he didn't get his head
>> kicked
>> > > in.

>> > Vague recollection of Symonds advancing a few steps down the wicket to
>> > have a go at Waqar, possibly leaving himself open to be stumped (or run
>> > out, would have been interesting had the keeper hit the stumps).

>> How do you figure? You can't be stumped from a no ball.

>> Wog

>(which is why I included run out)

>Considering Symonds advanced down the wicket and my recollection was
>that the keeper did attempt to hit the stumps, if he had hit, what
>would the outcome have been?

I'm jumping in the middle of the thread here, and so may not
understand your question properly.  But if I do understand it, the
answer is given in Law 39.3.  (Law 39 is the Stumped Law.)

3.  Not out Stumped

(a) if the striker is not out Stumped, he is liable to be out Run out
if the conditions of Law 38 (Run out) apply, except as set out in (b)
below.

(b)  The striker shall not be out Run out if he is out of his ground,
not attempting a run, and his wicket is fairly put down by the
wicket-keeper without the intervention of another member of the
fielding side, if No ball has been called.

End quote.  The first time I read this new Law my eyes rolled back in
my head, but perhaps you are more acute than I.  In the end I arrived
at the understanding that what the Law is saying is "If the only
reason you aren't out Stumped is because it is a no-ball, you can't be
out Run out either."  That is only if the wicket-keeper alone puts
down the stumps.  You can be Run out on a no-ball by any other member
of the fielding side, or by the keeper after another member of the
fielding side has touched the ball, regardless of whether you are
attempting a run or not.  This is a change from the old Law that said
the striker couldn't be Run out on a No ball if he wasn't attempting a
run.  Now he can be Run out on a No ball, attempting a run or not, but
he has to be doing something more than what would be a stumping if it
were not a no-ball.

This may not immediately make sense to you--or maybe it will--but if
you think about it a bit you will see that it is only fair.  If you
can't be stumped on a no-ball, how can you be fairly out under the
exact same circumstances just by calling it a runout instead of a
stumping?

Take it easy,
Ron Knight

 
 
 

Thanks God, Mr. "I am the one with the MOST sportsman spirit" Gilchrist

Post by Prakash Melwan » Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:29:54



Quote:



m>




> > <snip>

> > > No one needs courage to look into it, it just
> > > has to be reported to him.  A MR cannot lay charges.
> > > Manuel did in this case.  It has NOTHING to do with Proctor or lloyd.

> > Shripathi, I have not read anywhere that it was Manuel who laid the
> charges.
> > But that is probably because I have only read a few articles today. As
> such,
> > would be much obliged if you could inform where this is stated. Many
> thanks.

> According to SMGPH, "the pair were reported by umpires Billy Bowden and
> Peter Manuel", as is required by the Laws which instruct "the umpires" to
> report.

Many thanks.
Do not quite understand SMGPH so a URL would be useful.
Ofcourse Shripathi may have read it differently on another website so I
would still like to read that one too.

Prakash

 
 
 

Thanks God, Mr. "I am the one with the MOST sportsman spirit" Gilchrist

Post by Andrew Dunfor » Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:40:05


<snip>

Quote:
> Do not quite understand SMGPH so a URL would be useful.

Sydney Morning Gutter Press Herald.  Some people refer to it by the
shortened form: Sydney Morning Herald:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/02/23/1077497518501.html

Andrew

 
 
 

Thanks God, Mr. "I am the one with the MOST sportsman spirit" Gilchrist

Post by CiL » Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:49:13

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:29:54 +0800, "Prakash Melwani"

Quote:

>> According to SMGPH, "the pair were reported by umpires Billy Bowden and
>> Peter Manuel", as is required by the Laws which instruct "the umpires" to
>> report.

>Many thanks.
>Do not quite understand SMGPH so a URL would be useful.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/02/23/1077497518501.html
 
 
 

Thanks God, Mr. "I am the one with the MOST sportsman spirit" Gilchrist

Post by Shripathi Kamat » Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:38:34


Quote:






o
> m>




> > > <snip>

> > > > No one needs courage to look into it, it just
> > > > has to be reported to him.  A MR cannot lay charges.
> > > > Manuel did in this case.  It has NOTHING to do with Proctor or
lloyd.

> > > Shripathi, I have not read anywhere that it was Manuel who laid the
> > charges.
> > > But that is probably because I have only read a few articles today. As
> > such,
> > > would be much obliged if you could inform where this is stated. Many
> > thanks.

> > According to SMGPH, "the pair were reported by umpires Billy Bowden and
> > Peter Manuel", as is required by the Laws which instruct "the umpires"
to
> > report.

> Many thanks.
> Do not quite understand SMGPH so a URL would be useful.
> Ofcourse Shripathi may have read it differently on another website so I
> would still like to read that one too.

Looks like it was Manuel *and* Bowden, not just Manuel.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/02/23/1077497518501.html

However, the point I was making to v1renprataps1ngh was that an MR (Proctor
in this case) *cannot* lay charges these days.  That was the major change in
the CoC after Mike Denness had laid charges and penalized a bunch of Indian
cricketers in South Africa.

--
Shripathi Kamath

 
 
 

Thanks God, Mr. "I am the one with the MOST sportsman spirit" Gilchrist

Post by Prakash Melwan » Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:02:33


Quote:



> <snip>

> > Do not quite understand SMGPH so a URL would be useful.

> Sydney Morning Gutter Press Herald.  Some people refer to it by the
> shortened form: Sydney Morning Herald:

> http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/02/23/1077497518501.html

> Andrew

Thanks for the clarification Andrew. Is this the top Aussie paper as far as
cricket is concerned?
 
 
 

Thanks God, Mr. "I am the one with the MOST sportsman spirit" Gilchrist

Post by Andrew Dunfor » Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:06:47


Quote:





> > <snip>

> > > Do not quite understand SMGPH so a URL would be useful.

> > Sydney Morning Gutter Press Herald.  Some people refer to it by the
> > shortened form: Sydney Morning Herald:

> > http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/02/23/1077497518501.html

> > Andrew

> Thanks for the clarification Andrew. Is this the top Aussie paper as far
as
> cricket is concerned?

No idea.  I suggest you direct the question to Larry, who seems to take a
keen interest in Australian sports journalism.

Andrew

 
 
 

Thanks God, Mr. "I am the one with the MOST sportsman spirit" Gilchrist

Post by Prakash Melwan » Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:06:42



Quote:








c
> o
> > m>




> > > > <snip>

> > > > > No one needs courage to look into it, it just
> > > > > has to be reported to him.  A MR cannot lay charges.
> > > > > Manuel did in this case.  It has NOTHING to do with Proctor or
> lloyd.

> > > > Shripathi, I have not read anywhere that it was Manuel who laid the
> > > charges.
> > > > But that is probably because I have only read a few articles today.
As
> > > such,
> > > > would be much obliged if you could inform where this is stated. Many
> > > thanks.

> > > According to SMGPH, "the pair were reported by umpires Billy Bowden
and
> > > Peter Manuel", as is required by the Laws which instruct "the umpires"
> to
> > > report.

> > Many thanks.
> > Do not quite understand SMGPH so a URL would be useful.
> > Ofcourse Shripathi may have read it differently on another website so I
> > would still like to read that one too.

> Looks like it was Manuel *and* Bowden, not just Manuel.

Thanks for clarifying. What I find somewhat unusual is that Wog, you, Andrew
and CIL have all referred to only this article in your replies.

Prakash

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/02/23/1077497518501.html

> However, the point I was making to v1renprataps1ngh was that an MR
(Proctor
> in this case) *cannot* lay charges these days.  That was the major change
in
> the CoC after Mike Denness had laid charges and penalized a bunch of
Indian
> cricketers in South Africa.

> --
> Shripathi Kamath

 
 
 

Thanks God, Mr. "I am the one with the MOST sportsman spirit" Gilchrist

Post by Andrew M » Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:53:20


says...

Quote:






>m>




>> > <snip>

>> > > No one needs courage to look into it, it just
>> > > has to be reported to him.  A MR cannot lay charges.
>> > > Manuel did in this case.  It has NOTHING to do with Proctor or lloyd.

>> > Shripathi, I have not read anywhere that it was Manuel who laid the
>> charges.
>> > But that is probably because I have only read a few articles today. As
>> such,
>> > would be much obliged if you could inform where this is stated. Many
>> thanks.

>> According to SMGPH, "the pair were reported by umpires Billy Bowden and
>> Peter Manuel", as is required by the Laws which instruct "the umpires" to
>> report.

>Many thanks.
>Do not quite understand SMGPH so a URL would be useful.
>Ofcourse Shripathi may have read it differently on another website so I
>would still like to read that one too.

>Prakash

www.smh.com.au
 
 
 

Thanks God, Mr. "I am the one with the MOST sportsman spirit" Gilchrist

Post by Shripathi Kamat » Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:18:27


Quote:





Quote:








.
> c
> > o
> > > m>




> > > > > <snip>

> > > > > > No one needs courage to look into it, it just
> > > > > > has to be reported to him.  A MR cannot lay charges.
> > > > > > Manuel did in this case.  It has NOTHING to do with Proctor or
> > lloyd.

> > > > > Shripathi, I have not read anywhere that it was Manuel who laid
the
> > > > charges.
> > > > > But that is probably because I have only read a few articles
today.
> As
> > > > such,
> > > > > would be much obliged if you could inform where this is stated.
Many
> > > > thanks.

> > > > According to SMGPH, "the pair were reported by umpires Billy Bowden
> and
> > > > Peter Manuel", as is required by the Laws which instruct "the
umpires"
> > to
> > > > report.

> > > Many thanks.
> > > Do not quite understand SMGPH so a URL would be useful.
> > > Ofcourse Shripathi may have read it differently on another website so
I
> > > would still like to read that one too.

> > Looks like it was Manuel *and* Bowden, not just Manuel.

> Thanks for clarifying. What I find somewhat unusual is that Wog, you,
Andrew
> and CIL have all referred to only this article in your replies.

Any more unusual than not finding it anywhere else? :-)

(Or is that a polite way of saying that since no other pub mentioned that
detail, it is of a dubious nature?)

How about maligning of referees for not charging a player, when it is
oft-repeated here by several (and cross-referenced to the CoC) that a MR
cannot lay charges, he can only adjudicate on charges laid before him?

Never mind, that is not unusual :-)

I had contacted the ICC a while back (might even have posted the response in
rsc last year or before) for the specifics of it, and they confirmed that
yes, it is indeed the case.  A MR cannot lay charges, and the ICC person
responding accepted that such change came about in the aftermath of the
Denness laying charges against the Indian cricketers.

--
Shripathi Kamath

 
 
 

Thanks God, Mr. "I am the one with the MOST sportsman spirit" Gilchrist

Post by Andrew Dunfor » Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:30:39


Quote:





Quote:








.
> c
> > o
> > > m>




> > > > > <snip>

> > > > > > No one needs courage to look into it, it just
> > > > > > has to be reported to him.  A MR cannot lay charges.
> > > > > > Manuel did in this case.  It has NOTHING to do with Proctor or
> > lloyd.

> > > > > Shripathi, I have not read anywhere that it was Manuel who laid
the
> > > > charges.
> > > > > But that is probably because I have only read a few articles
today.
> As
> > > > such,
> > > > > would be much obliged if you could inform where this is stated.
Many
> > > > thanks.

> > > > According to SMGPH, "the pair were reported by umpires Billy Bowden
> and
> > > > Peter Manuel", as is required by the Laws which instruct "the
umpires"
> > to
> > > > report.

> > > Many thanks.
> > > Do not quite understand SMGPH so a URL would be useful.
> > > Ofcourse Shripathi may have read it differently on another website so
I
> > > would still like to read that one too.

> > Looks like it was Manuel *and* Bowden, not just Manuel.

> Thanks for clarifying. What I find somewhat unusual is that Wog, you,
Andrew
> and CIL have all referred to only this article in your replies.

In my case, you asked for a URL referring to the Wog's quote, so that was
what you got.

<snip>

Andrew

 
 
 

Thanks God, Mr. "I am the one with the MOST sportsman spirit" Gilchrist

Post by CiL » Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:52:03

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:30:39 +1300, "Andrew Dunford"

Quote:

>> > Looks like it was Manuel *and* Bowden, not just Manuel.

>> Thanks for clarifying. What I find somewhat unusual is that Wog, you,
>Andrew
>> and CIL have all referred to only this article in your replies.

>In my case, you asked for a URL referring to the Wog's quote, so that was
>what you got.

yes and in my case I just threw that link cos I thought  he asked for
details on slinky minky.

CiL
Uff... these arrogant kiwis