Sport Today

1) You CAN be out Retired (it's just that you haven't been dismissed).
2) To be timed out, you have to have taken longer than 2 minutes from the time of
   the last batsman being out, to get on the field of play (ie; cross the
   boundary).
3) Handled the ball is a bit of a grey area, because if the fielding side
   indicate (in some way) that it's ok to pick the ball up, then if you (as the
   batsman) DO touch the ball, you cannot be given out. However, I guess the
   umpire must have seen the indication by the fielding side (like a lot of
   umpiring, a lot can be gained by reading body language).
4) Caught is caught (no matter who catches it).
5) Played on IS the same as bowled. It just means that before the ball hits the
   stumps, it hit part of your bat.
6) With "hit the ball twice", you can only do this if it is in the interests of
   protecting your wicket. You (as the batsman) may NOT profit from this. If the
   umpire is absolutely sure that the wicket was not in danger, then the batsman
   is out.

I can't think of any of the other questions that came up in the million articles
posted on this matter, but I think just about everything has been covered
somewhere along the line.
Here is the list again of ways of being out (and let it be the last!!!!):

         1) BOWLED
         2) CAUGHT
         3) L.B.W  (but not if you kick the ball away in the interests of
                    protecting your wicket)
         4) RUN OUT
         5) TIMED OUT
         6) HIT WICKET  i.e, the bat hits the wicket while the ball is live.
         7) OBSTRUCTING THE FIELD
         8) STUMPED
         9) HANDLED THE BALL
        10) HIT THE BALL TWICE
        11) RETIRED   (you're out, it's just that you're not dismissed, if you
                       know what I mean).

Retired Hurt does NOT count as a way of being out.

Whew!
Chris.

If you are out, HT WKT, is this attributed to the Bowler?  I am told
that it is, but it doesnt really make sense to me...

Also, can you score byes off of a wide ball or a No-ball?  Again, here
we play that you cannot, yet I have seen score books that allow for such
a thing to occur:
       . .
        +  - a cross with two dots in the quarters means 2 runs off a wide.

This may be old notation, or it may be that I am misunderstanding this...

And no-balls now are 2 runs against the bowler, right?

btw, if anyone in the TriState area, or further afield wishes to play us,
Haverford is a fully undergraduate team in the Philadelphia region.  Our
season has finished for this year, but we are starting to look for
friendly matches in early September.  Our team is rather young this season
but we hope to play a decent game.

Brad_.

|> Can anyone help me with this?
|>
|> If you are out, HT WKT, is this attributed to the Bowler?  I am told
|> that it is, but it doesnt really make sense to me...

Yes, the wicket is attributed to the bowler. I suppose you've got a point about
it not really making sense, after all, it is the sole fault of the batsman (ie;
the type of delivery from the bowler 99.9% of the time will have nothing to do
with whether or not the batsman hits his (or her) wicket. Still I guess you'll
have to take that up with the old fogies at Lords :)
|>
|> Also, can you score byes off of a wide ball or a No-ball?  Again, here
|> we play that you cannot, yet I have seen score books that allow for such
|> a thing to occur:

No byes can be scored off a wide or no-ball. The reasoning is very clear:
Simply, the wide or no ball occurred first => any runs that do result are either
wides or no-balls.
Furthermore, if a no-ball is bowled (say 'front-foot'), and it would also be wide
enough to be called 'wide ball', and it goes past the wicketkeeper and the
batsmen takes X number of runs; then those runs are NO-BALLS, because the no-ball
occurred first.
|>        . .
|>   +  - a cross with two dots in the quarters means 2 runs off a wide.
|>
|> This may be old notation, or it may be that I am misunderstanding this...

Well....I'm starting to get the impression that scoring notation varies around
the world (this surprises me!!).
The most common notation used in NZ (we're just by Australia for all you
Americans :-) ), is:
    circle with a dot in it for a no-ball (if no runs are scored off it)
    circle with X in it for a no-ball     (if X runs are scored off it)

    similarly a square for a wide.

I do seem to remember seeing an English score-book with the notation you mention
in it, so you can take your pick I guess. I don't think there are any hard and
fast rules worldwide (although I strongly think there should be!!)
|>
|> And no-balls now are 2 runs against the bowler, right?

I think they are experimenting with this in England at the moment. I think it's a
good idea. It's about time bowlers had to pay for their own inadequacies!!! :)
(You can probably guess I'm an opening batsman).
|>
|> btw, if anyone in the TriState area, or further afield wishes to play us,
|> Haverford is a fully undergraduate team in the Philadelphia region.  Our
|> season has finished for this year, but we are starting to look for
|> friendly matches in early September.  Our team is rather young this season
|> but we hope to play a decent game.

I think the regular plane flights would be a bit expensive for me  :)
|>

|>
|> Brad_.

Peter Abela

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Success is getting what you want - Happiness is wanting what
you get
===============================================================================

Anyone *know* the rules EXACTLY??

--
Tim Astley      | Address : Christ College, Dynnyrne, Tasmania, Australia,7005

Uni. of Tasmania|     or   phone (002) 202158 (work) (002) 280829 (home)

In first-class and Minor Counties cricket, the penalties are different this
season; if no run is taken from a no-ball, _two_ nbs are scored; if any byes
or leg-byes are run, the number of them is scored as no-balls _plus_ two
more for the no-ball; if the batsman hits the ball, all runs scored are
credited to him, and _in_addition_ two no-balls penalty.

Clear? Just as a further comment, while I'm here; the usual method in England
of writing a nb in the scorebook is a circle, empty if no runs are taken, with
a number inside if the batsman hits and runs, or dots inside to the number of
byes/leg byes run. A wide is a + sign, with an appropriate number of dots in
the corners for any byes run, and a w at top left for a wicket. (Obviously
a circle with a w can never come about, as the partition of methods of
dismissal [credit to bowler| no credit to bowler] is isomorphic to the
partition [disallowed off nb| allowed off nb])
--
Ignore the heading - this is from an account being used as a squat.

j n a

CDC

Assuming, of course, that the ball hit the bat first!

I also discovered a very interesting fact about the LBW law which I will
post tomorrow as I need the Wisden handy for reference and I don't have
it here at work (I usually write my articles on my PC at home; I was
going to do this one last night until I discovered that my 20-month-old
daughter had been feeding 10p pieces to the A drive :-S  By the time I
got them out of there, it was too late to start on it).

-----------------------------------------------------------
David A. Wheeler, Motorola Ltd., Camberley, Surrey, England

|> Having followed this and the related threads for a few days, I read up
|> the laws in my 1992 Wisden last night.  Some interesting facts were
|> revealed.
|>
   thingees deleted :)
|>
|> >2) To be timed out, you have to have taken longer than 2 minutes from the time
|> >   the last batsman being out, to get on the field of play (ie; cross the
|> >   boundary).
|>
|> Also correct, with the proviso that the batsman must have WILFULLY taken
|> longer than two minutes and that the umpire at the bowler's end has
|> satisfied himself of this fact.  In other words, it's at the umpire's
|> discretion.

Oops, sorry I forgot about the wilfull bit. I wonder if an urgent call of nature
counts as willful. ;)
|>
|> >3) Handled the ball is a bit of a grey area, because if the fielding side
|> >   indicate (in some way) that it's ok to pick the ball up, then if you (as
|> >   the batsman) DO touch the ball, you cannot be given out. However, I guess
|> >   the umpire must have seen the indication by the fielding side (like a lot
|> >   of umpiring, a lot can be gained by reading body language).
|>
|> Correct again in all respects.

Yeah, also I guess a general comment about this is that the umpire can't give the
batsman out unless he(she) is ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the batsman has illegally
handled the ball => if there is any doubt about whether the fielding side said
it was ok to pick the ball up, than the batsman will probably get the benefit.
(e.g; if the umpire didn't see the incident).
|
  more thingees deleted
|>
|> So there we are; there are indeed at least eleven ways to be out, and
|> there may even be a twelfth; I need to check Law 43 on Unfair Play this
|> evening.  So the Trivial Pursuit game card which states that there are
|> ten is WRONG.

Yep, it's wrong alright. There is not a 12th way of being out. Unfair play is Law
42 (or at least it is in NZ, although the way Jon Thackray took my LBW law
apart, I'm starting to wonder what's right!!!!!
My law book is dated at 1989 from the MCC. I'm sure there haven't been any
significant changes since then.      

|>
|> I also discovered a very interesting fact about the LBW law which I will
|> post tomorrow as I need the Wisden handy for reference and I don't have
|> it here at work (I usually write my articles on my PC at home; I was
|> going to do this one last night until I discovered that my 20-month-old
|> daughter had been feeding 10p pieces to the A drive :-S  By the time I
|> got them out of there, it was too late to start on it).

But I'm sure it was a lot of fun trying to fit 10p pieces in the A drive ;)
|>
|> -----------------------------------------------------------
From Surrey eh?  I'll bet you're a big fan of Jack Hobbs.

Chris.

-----------------------------------------------------------
David A. Wheeler, Motorola Ltd., Camberley, Surrey, England

Batsman plays forward defensive stroke. Ball hits shoulder of bat, then
the body of the batsman before dropping to the ground, it has a lot of
spin as a result of hitting the shoulder of the bat. It starts to roll
toward the stumps, batsman bends down and picks it up, offering it to a
fielder. I appeal from second slip because it appeared to me that the
ball would have hit the stumps if the batsman had not touched it. Umpire
raises the finger and rather confused batman departs the scene.( I get
dirty looks from the rest of my team who reckon that the ball had
stopped and wasn't going to hit the wicket.)

Keith